Terrified to face up to marriage problems

[Seaside1234]

Paralysed with fear to finally put my foot down about my husband's behaviour. I'm so conflict-averse it's ridiculous, but I don't want to go on like this.

Married 17 years, children 15 and 11. He's always kind of done what he wants and I've always avoided conflict - I earn more in a more stable job, but have always done more housework and childcare too. Long history of crippling depression on his part which eventually got treated. He had an affair about 6 years ago, I found out, we decided to stay together and went through marriage counselling where we addressed some of our issues. We didn't keep that level of communication up (he's as conflict averse as I am), he stopped being willing to have harder conversations and I was too scared to push that.

His work disappeared overnight in Covid and hasn't come back to the same extent. I have been supporting us almost entirely now for about 4 years, I guess. He hasn't contributed to mortgage or main bills for at least 2 years. He's always liked a drink, but that has spiralled to a significant problem over the last 18 months or so. He's now drinking, including going out drinking, most nights in the week. So spending significant amounts of money on booze while not supporting his family. He gets up late every day, and while he seems to be working a bit, it doesn't seem like much to me.

In all of this, I have completely gone off him and fallen out of love with him. We haven't had sex in well over a year (my choice, but he hasn't addressed it at all). We're essentially separated but sleeping in the same bed and I'm paying for everything. I think I want to separate, and I've reached the point where I think it might be best for our kids too.

I was diagnosed with high-functioning autism a few years ago and find it very difficult to start a conversation which will be very hard. We are both hugely averse to any conflict - we never argue, and the thought of getting angry with him makes me feel physically sick, probably as a hangover from how I was parented. I plan to ask if he'll consider going back to counselling as a way to have difficult conversations in a managed environment. But what do I do if he says no? I'm completely stuck and would appreciate any thoughts from people who might know where I'm coming from.

I see where you're coming from, but I really do believe those thoughts. I was brought up to not make a fuss and to think that I was usually wrong/in the wrong. Given that, these are heavily ingrained and what I truly believe even when I can see in theory they might not be true. What makes me so self-centred that I would do this to everyone else just so I can be happier? What if I'm wrong about what's best for my children? I don't think I am, but I've been wrong about things in the past, and this would be a very big thing to be wrong about.

And I don't think I can manage to just tune his anger out. Just thinking about it is like drowning. I heard someone else talking the other day about when expressing something other people don't want to hear makes you feel like you might die, and that is how I feel. I feel so guilty for wanting to keep the status quo and also so guilty if I don't do anything as I know I should.

He's declined to go to counselling tomorrow as he has to work. I really thought he might engage with it. I don't want to tell him our marriage is over by text, but I've run out of ways to try and get him to talk to me.

@NZDreaming that looks like a super-helpful resource, thank you for suggesting it and I hope other people might see that and find it useful. Unfortunately I'm in Scotland, which it doesn't cover (different legal system), but I'll see if there's any Scottish equivalent

Hi @Seaside1234 , I'm so sorry you're going through all this. Just seeing your most recent post, I thought I'd check Scottish Women's Aid | (womensaid.scot) and found this site: Scottish Women’s Rights Centre (scottishwomensrightscentre.org.uk). They offer free, confidential legal advice and support. The Women's Aid people would be able to give you a handhold and information regardless of what you decide to do.

I do understand the dilemma; I see it as 'sliding doors'... we can only do the best with the information we have at the time, we may never know what the 'right' decision is. Also someone once said to me something that might help you: 'Putting your wants before someone else's needs is selfISH; putting your needs before someone else's wants is self CARE .

@Seaside1234 you won’t die in the face of his anger. You may feel like you will, but you won’t.

It’s a difficult feeling, and you will endure it. Like you’ve endured all the difficult feelings involved with living with him all these years. You are tougher than you think. Feelings can’t kill you or drown you. They just feel shit for a while.

I get that you were raised not to make a fuss. You’re an adult now, and you don’t need to bargain all the time with that conditioning. You can recognise it’s there and make a decision separately from it. Not making a fuss is part of what got you into this situation and kept you here for so long, so it’s not really working out for you.

I get that you are in the grip of very black and white thinking, but there is no ‘wrong’ decision you can make. There will be difficulties for you and your children in leaving, just as there are difficulties in continuing with the status quo. You can choose what to do next. There is no magic ‘right’ choice where all the difficulties go away, unfortunately.

Lots of this - including everything he feels or thinks or does - is outside of your control. But you are resourceful and can find ways to work things out and deal with what comes.

You are going to keep coming back to these circular
thoughts - but what if? But how dare I? But how can I know what’s right? - and that’s why you need to find therapy for yourself, to help you stop indulging these fruitless ruminations so you can make decisions that support your own happiness.

You can do it. You really can.

Who the heck are you to make these choices?
An adult, living competently, not expecting others to carry her.
You are equally valid as a person, and of course: it’s your life. You are allowed to live peacefully.

But also, how have you ended up thinking that you ending this farce is a problem, but him drinking 60 or 100 Units of alcohol a week is unworthy of comment.

But also, if this was your daughter you know you would want her to leave. Hell, he would probably admit that he would hate his kids to have spouse like him.

And also, creating space will allow you and the kids to have a better life.(This I know from experience, you’ll be able to do all the nice things you wanted to do without walking on eggshells)

You might apply this compassionate thinking to your own situation OP.

Hello OP,

Im new to this thread and thought maybe I could offer you a more simple way of looking at this.

Ok, so look at it this way.

marriage is like a motorway. You get on at junction one and you know that your happy ending is around junction 6, there lies happiness and contentment, or at least that’s what we hope for.

unfortunately, all exits got blocked and junction 6 was miles back. You are now driving into an area that is not your planned destination. The further down the road you get, the more you grip the steering wheel and you start to feel unable to make the decision to to get off this road.

After all, you’re safe, and you’re not going to crash and burn, but never the less you know that this is not your path to happiness.

So, what to do?

Option one………just keep on driving, getting further and further away from that happy place that was junction 6, knowing that eventually you will run out of fuel and you will be left high and dry in a place you don’t want and never intended to be.

Option two……you know you passed your turn off several miles back, you feel a little uneasy knowing junction 8 is coming up on your left. You know junction 6 is no longer an option, it’s ridden with pot holes and traffic snarl ups, trying to get there will be an absolute nightmare. You calculate you have enough fuel to get back to junction one so you can start your life journey all over again.

A fresh map, a new tank of fuel and a knowledge that if the road turns bad, you know that you can come home, regroup and start afresh.

Come on OP, come home, get a new car, a new sat nav, and get rid of that useless hitchhiker that’s taking up your back seat.

You can do it!!!

Thank you all for your time and support. I know it must look stupid and the answer so obvious to everyone on the outside, but I am so scared. I'm not a brave person and I'm afraid this may be beyond me. Knowing in the future that I tried to do the right thing for them and why won't stop my children's lives being up-ended now, and they are all I care about; by the time they're old enough to understand it might be too late and the damage might be done.

@Bunnyhair it's really helpful to think about only making the best decision I can in the moment, rather than get it perfectly right for the whole future, thank you.

@Seaside1234 I have been quickly catching up with your updates, and I know exactly what you mean when you ask yourself "who the hell do I think I am?" when making such a big decision. I do the same thing, but to the extent that I won't wear a pair of shoes I recently bought as I'm worried that people will look at me and say to themselves, "who the hell does she think she is." It is debilitating. Ridiculous and debilitating. So, you have to somehow coach yourself out of it. You CAN make any decision that means you have a happier life. It really is ok to do this. You and I need to get out of this mindset that people are always judging and criticising us. They're almost always not, and even if they do, let them!

Your children are already living in a dysfunctional home, with a drunk abusive father.
You need to show them that its not OK or normal to be submissive, unhappy & walk on egg shells.
The sky wont fall in.

@Seaside1234 Just wanted to check in, hope you’re doing ok.

Yes: please update if you get a chance. You did a lot of heavy work in this tgread. Just because it did not solve the problem right away does not mean its not a valuable step along the path you need to take.

Nothing stats the same. Change will come to your little world will you, nill you. His drinking will escalate. You might get suck. The children will move out. You can’t stand still and have nothing change. Try to get help/counseling/therapy just for you to unlearn your childhood patterns and get yourself to be able to act to protect yourself and your children.

Can you find yourself a new place to live and move in while he's out drinking? You can tell him by text. He's an absolute shit, so he doesn't deserve to be told face to face. Plus, if you are vulnerable to his manipulation, you need to cut out all lines of communication. Tell him and then block him. See a lawyer asap to divorce this turd. Fuck his feelings. He has shown no concern for yours, so you owe him nothing.

Thank you for checking in. He has found various excuses not to come to counselling since the first session - individually they're kind of ok, but overall it's a pattern. I've stalled, it's like I've used up all the courage I might have had. He's still drinking and going out - maybe a bit less than before, but still not contributing anything meaningful financially or domestically. Things have been a bit complicated by our elderly dog looking like she might be about to die, then kind of stabilising, but she probably hasn't got long left to go.

On a recommendation from here, I read Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay, which was really interesting, and based on that I'd be better leaving. Didn't in any way cover what to do when you actually cannot bring yourself to do it.

The cycle will continue with your children. What you and their father are teaching them is heartbreaking. They do not stand a chance. Especially if you have daughters.

@Seaside1234 Im sorry to hear about your dog, losing a pet can be very difficult.

Your husband is continuing to show you who he is , he has not taken your concerns seriously and clearly has no intention of making any meaningful changes.

Are you in individual therapy? I completely understand how hard it is to go against a belief that has been ingrained since childhood but it is entirely possible to unlearn those thoughts.

You need to dig deep and find the courage to start making steps towards separation. This is not a good situation for you or your children to be in and you are the only one who can do anything about it, they’re relying on you to be brave and proactive. They may not know it now but they will thank you when they are older.

No one knows what the future holds but we make decisions based on the information we have at hand.

You are stronger than you know

He is hoping you will suffer a bad case of mission creep. All abusers - and that is what he is - hope this. There is no need for him to even attempt to face up to his behaviour because that is what he thinks will happen. Your long term objective and desire to leave him is not unknown to him. He just doesn’t care. He also wants to continually guilt trip and control you simultaneously, hence the continued self destruction and lack of commitment to what are in any event utterly pointless counselling sessions. Your qualities and abilities as a mother and breadwinner are being ruthlessly exploited.

One problem for you —the reason you have stalled—is that you sort if thought of the situation as one in which you needed to be fair and you needed his consent. Asking him to go to therapy was a step you thought you needed to go through. You subconsciously thought, perhaps, that he would either commit to working together to save the marriage or accept ending it. But he called your bluff and bluffed you! He agreed to do it and then just…didn’t.You act as though you can’t make a move unilaterally so without going through some set stages such as therapy you may not end the marriage.

You have given all the power to him. As long as he is willing to lie to you with impunity the marriage cannot end. Its sort of the schroedinger’s cat of a marriage—its neither alive nor dead but stuck half way.

Give yourself the gift of individual therapy to deal with your terrible childhood of emotional repression and neglect. Read up on how terrible it is for children exposed to a drunken, lying, miserable parent. Reflect on how different your own life will be if you had been taught and shown to value your own life and happiness! Would you want your children to accept such a shitty marriage? Show them how to cut their way out of the traps life sets for us! You can do it—and you owe it to them.

If you’ve not managed to say it to him during counselling and he’s now shirking off going there, I worry that you never will. You have all the evidence that he is abusing you, using you for an easy life. I actually think you need to now draw a line under the counselling together (it would be good to go alone and work on your esteem and how you see yourself perhaps?)

At this point I think you should just go and see a divorce lawyer and simply file for divorce. All the evidence is there that you have tried to communicate and arrange counselling. He cannot put the blame on you - not honestly.. It doesn’t matter who is right or wrong. But it’s not fair to have to carry this man for the rest of your life!

OP I have just read all your responses and just stopped by to ask how you feel this hesitancy to leave such an abusive situation is impacting your DC? (You may not believe it to be abusive but by definition it very clearly is).

My DM was very similar in character to you and staying with my father for 30 years completely ruined her life, my life and that of my DB.
I am 46 and still massively struggle with relationships as a result, my 44 yo DB is still single and very misogynistic, treats women the way he watched my mother be treat. He was also a lovely, sweet lad at 15.

As parents we're setting an example for DC, they are growing up witnessing the abusive dynamic between you and DH, they're assuming this is "normal" and will very likely grow up model it. Daughter of alcoholic fathers grow up very traumatised just by that fact and spend their life trying to rewrite history with similar partners.
Just an alternative perspective for you to consider.

This man is taking advantage of you and yet you continue to allow it. You say that you are afraid of conflict but I wonder if really you are actually afraid of being on your own.

Your emotional intelligence in this situation is also questionable since you must know about child development and how our childhood experiences influence who we become as adults yet you continue to display this model of life to your children

This man senses your weakness and is mean and tight with his money with your hesitancy allowing him to continue to be selfish

It really is not hard to send a message to him

Xxxxx, I have been thinking long and hard about the future and I would like to separate. This relationship is no longer working for me and I believe we would be better off apart.

I do not believe that we can save this relationship and nor do I want to.

I hope that we can move forward amicably for the sake of the children and remain on good terms.

Apologies for not replying, didn't see that there were more replies on this thread. Thank you all for your input. Still frozen. I'm trying to behave as normal as possible on the surface for the sake of the children and day to day peace, but it involves constantly lying to myself, and frankly it's driving me a bit mad.

Been reading another thread on here about the honest fact that divorce does impact children's lives profoundly. Whatever I do is going to damage them, it seems, and they matter more than I do. I don't know what to do for the best.

Trust me, you're going to damage them more by letting them watch their father treat their mother like this, and growing up with an alcoholic.

Don't think they have no idea what's going on, either because they will know.

You're also recognising the toll this is taking on you - what about your mental health? What about the children's financial future and yours if the family money is being wasted on alcohol?

It feels like the real problem remains that you're still afraid of confrontation. This is understandable. Can you enlist the help of a friend or family member to help you tell your husband you need a divorce and he needs to move out?

I would also add: you're also teaching your children to avoid emotional confrontation by remaining unable to deal with this situation. That's a form of damage, too but you can avoid that by showing them that emotions can be dealt with.