Terrified to face up to marriage problems

[Seaside1234]

Paralysed with fear to finally put my foot down about my husband's behaviour. I'm so conflict-averse it's ridiculous, but I don't want to go on like this.

Married 17 years, children 15 and 11. He's always kind of done what he wants and I've always avoided conflict - I earn more in a more stable job, but have always done more housework and childcare too. Long history of crippling depression on his part which eventually got treated. He had an affair about 6 years ago, I found out, we decided to stay together and went through marriage counselling where we addressed some of our issues. We didn't keep that level of communication up (he's as conflict averse as I am), he stopped being willing to have harder conversations and I was too scared to push that.

His work disappeared overnight in Covid and hasn't come back to the same extent. I have been supporting us almost entirely now for about 4 years, I guess. He hasn't contributed to mortgage or main bills for at least 2 years. He's always liked a drink, but that has spiralled to a significant problem over the last 18 months or so. He's now drinking, including going out drinking, most nights in the week. So spending significant amounts of money on booze while not supporting his family. He gets up late every day, and while he seems to be working a bit, it doesn't seem like much to me.

In all of this, I have completely gone off him and fallen out of love with him. We haven't had sex in well over a year (my choice, but he hasn't addressed it at all). We're essentially separated but sleeping in the same bed and I'm paying for everything. I think I want to separate, and I've reached the point where I think it might be best for our kids too.

I was diagnosed with high-functioning autism a few years ago and find it very difficult to start a conversation which will be very hard. We are both hugely averse to any conflict - we never argue, and the thought of getting angry with him makes me feel physically sick, probably as a hangover from how I was parented. I plan to ask if he'll consider going back to counselling as a way to have difficult conversations in a managed environment. But what do I do if he says no? I'm completely stuck and would appreciate any thoughts from people who might know where I'm coming from.

Dont underestimate what your children see & absorb. They see you're not happy. They see their father exit alone to the pub. Lie in bed till lunchtime. No useful employment, You providing, plus running about like a headless chicken getting everything else done. This is the model of a happy supportive functional family ?

My daughter told me just yesterday how awful her childhood was due to the domestic abuse I thought I was camouflaging for their sakes.
There have only been 2 occasions in my life when I questioned whether life was worth pursuing.
Once when my revered Dad died & the other one was yesterday

Life is always worth living and especially when you have children . No matter the state of a marriage you'll fuck them up more by killing yourself. Seek help asap.

@Mix56 she feels safe enough now ro tell you that - that says a huge amount. You cannot change the past, and she can't see what the experience was like through the adult lens. You are there for her now and always, that's what matters. Help her get help if she needs it. Once you know better, y you do better. Virtual hugs xx

@Seaside1234 I would really recommend getting some counselling for yourself. I too am shackled by the thought that I should just get on with things, never make a fuss, and definitely never upset anyone. Like you, I recognise that I do this, and that I shouldn't do this, but it's a different matter actually enacting it. Counselling did help me to a certain extent, but it is still so hard to jump over the barrier that sets me free to not put myself last. One thing the counsellor said that was a bit of a revelation for me was - be the bad guy, take it, accept the blame, it really does not matter - and that is totally true! I have gone round and round in circles wondering if I've made all of this unhappiness happen myself, but the bottom line is that I am unhappy and I don't want to be married to my husband. That is absolutely ok. The end result I want is to not be with him, and any blame or fault really is irrelevant. It's hard to change the mindset of a lifetime, but you have to try.

I'm not someone who takes marriage lightly
Who, in your mind, will accuse you of taking your vows too lightly, rather than your husband? Where does that imagined criticism come from? Your parents? Your husband?

If you take marriage seriously, then you take problems in a marriage seriously, and take serious action where required.

I put myself here willingly
No, you didn't. You didn't willingly sign up to be with an uncooperative, cheating drunk.

not feeling able to get out is due to my own issues
Your struggle to "face the wave of negative emotion that's coming my way" is not a failure on your part. Sure, you might find it particularly hard to deal with because of your nature. But what if there was no such wave - if your husband discussed things with you calmly, compassionately and fairly? You either wouldn't need to get out, or you would not have such trouble leaving.

Maybe, possibly, he isn't a very nice person, at least just now.
Or he's a pretty standard, i.e. imperfect human being whose current(?) behaviour towards you is abusive.

I think the idea behind "find your anger" is that in situations like this, we are often on the defensive, just reacting to criticism. When you feel angry that helps you be more assertive, and the anger is usually about something the other person has done, which puts your supposed wrongdoings in context.

@80s you hear it a lot in real life. I know I could sense the quiet judgment from people when I left my husband. How they fought for their relationship, all relationships are hard you just have to put in the work etc etc. People don’t seem to advocate much that it’s perfectly ok to leave something that you just don’t want to be in, I just don’t want to is enough of a reason. My husband was abusive and in my eyes that was enough, he didn’t treat me how I wanted after asking him too and that was enough. Life is very short and we don’t know when it will end so screw not doing things that others perceive as wrong.

I put myself here willingly

No you didn't. You married him. He moved the goalposts, so that you've ended up with an unfaithful, money wasting drinker who makes no effort. You didn't choose that, and if you'd had the choice, you would have said no. That's where you're at now: looking at where you've ended up, through no fault of your own, and working out if you can say no, having said 'yes' to a situation he promised you, and didn't deliver.

Op, i absolutely get your paralysis, living in limbo, indecisive ways. I too am high functioning asd. In fact, ive also got a very similar issue to yours in that im on the edge of that cliff ready to pay for my divorce to a big drinker H. There’s something stopping me (thoughts of, will i be ok without him, children coping) which is madness as i know ill be fine. I go round in circles. Yes, what if im making a massive mistake ranks highly too. But ive been unhappy for long, how can i be wrong? Just do it op. Have the angry discussion (write a list of points you want to discuss and gave to hand), apply for the divorce online and breathe a sigh of relief! I deserve happiness and so do you x

dm me if you like

I carefully worded my post. I am not going to top myself.
But I can see I have failed my children. The reproach hurts.

There was no reproach meant. I felt sad for your pain. I was trying to be straight without being too emotional. But I did read it as you thought about ending your life because of what your DD said, because that's how he reads.

Even if you did put yourself there willingly you are perfectly entitled to change your mind.

@WinkyTinky

'One thing the counsellor said that was a bit of a revelation for me was - be the bad guy, take it, accept the blame, it really does not matter - and that is totally true! '

Yep, if I go through with this I think I'll just have to accept this. I have no doubt that his family will feel this way, that they'll beg me to continue to tolerate his behaviour rather than beg him to change the behaviour. However, I'm not too bothered about what they think, as long as they don't expose my children to anything other than unconditional support (they live nearby and see the children a lot).

@Grumppy I can imagine it's a specific problem for autistic people. We've grown up not trusting our own judgment very well, subverting our own feelings and experiences in order to fit in. The idea that my being happy matters is just very hard to believe, especially after an entire childhood of being told it doesn't. I could do it for the children, but his opinion on what's best for them will presumably be different, and then I'm back to who's to say that I'm more 'right' than him?

Related to autism, I have a situation called alexithymia, which is being unable to identify your emotions. So I can have any feeling, from mild to very intense, and not be able to tell you in words what I'm experiencing, what you would call that emotion. I think it might be partly why I find it hard to go on what I feel rather than what I think; I don't know what I feel, and I certainly don't trust it. What if I'm just overreacting to everything? People do overreact, it's definitely a real thing, and I don't think I'd know if it was me. Maybe there's stuff going on that I'm not even aware of that means my feelings aren't appropriate to the situation and I should pull it together.

Have counselling appointment for next week, assuming he agrees to go. I don't think he realises I'm seriously thinking about separating. I feel bad about essentially ambushing him with it, but frankly it'll be hard enough getting it out in that setting, I don't think I can do it beforehand.

Most people would fall out if love, & have no respect for their partner drinking to excess, being absent in the evenings, not helping with, home, kids & basically abandoning any role as partner
Whilst having had an affair, & getting up at midday.
Whether Autistic or not, you know this is far from likely to make a happy marriage.

Sorry @Seaside1234 I've not read the full thread. I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned Al Anon (it's like AA for family members of alcoholics) but I found it helpful in the early stages when my marriage to exh ended. I didn't go lots because it can be a bit of a cult. But it was nice to sit with others and know I wasn't batshit.

Read about codependency. From what I've read about your posts on your upbringing, it sounds like you are codependent.

Ultimately, you can't fix him and cannot change him. You need to let him be and decide if you want him as he is or not.

I wish I separated from my ex years before I actually did. Don't waste your life like I did.

My ex used to try and guilt me into staying by saying “well I was like this when you met me”. We grow and change and gain wisdom and change our likes and dislikes, what we once accepted we don’t always have to. I was young when I met my husband. He smoked a little weed which I didn’t fully understand. It got worse and worse and he got more and more aggressive. I felt bad for leaving because yes he smoked when we met and shame for even starting a relationship with a weed smoker but I learned with age it was not good. He continued after our child and with the aggression it was too much.

@Kindleonfire yes, I fully recognise the codependency, and I'm working on it. It's amazing how much your mind can gradually normalise until you look one day and see you've come to accept the completely unacceptable.

What if I'm just overreacting to everything? People do overreact

Yes, but over reacting involves an action. Feelings are different, and can't be over reactions because you can react to them in different ways. So, for example, if a husband forgets to pick up milk when he goes to the shop on his way home, his wife might be really pissed off because she's desperate for a cup of tea. That's not an over reaction, and is simply a reflection of who she is, how she is emotionally designed, what she wants, and how much she wants it. So, she might have a really strong feeling. It might be linked to anything... how her dad used to forget to pick up shopping because he was drunk and coming home intent on beating mum up, or something like that; she might have a really strong feeling about him coming home having forgotten some shopping, and her feeling will be valid. She will have her own reasons (which she may or may not be aware of), and because she's not mentally unwell, she must accept her strong feelings, and possibly try to work out why something so small would upset her so much, internally. All of this is fine, normal, average, standard 'being a human'. There is no over reacting in this scenario or any other instances of 'having a strong feeling'.

She can decide, because he forgot the milk, to murder him. Or, she can decide to say to him 'Wow, I don't know why it made me feel so shit when you forgot the milk, but I've come over all funny, I feel like murdering you!', and that's self validation. In a healthy relationship, this sort of self validation, recognition of and acceptance of feelings is welcomed by the spouse, and that's emotional intimacy. Murdering him is an over reaction.

Can you see the difference? In the healthy set up, all the feelings are accepted. She doesn't have to name them or identify them or know where they come from. She just has to know if they feel 'good' or 'bad', and if they are 'strong' or 'weak'.

Maybe there's stuff going on that I'm not even aware of that means my feelings aren't appropriate to the situation and I should pull it together

If your feelings don't fit the situation, and you're in a healthy relationship, your partner will support you through working out what's going on. The key isn't about silencing or stopping the feelings, but you seem to think that's what you have to do: stop over reacting, and shut up. It's massive self invalidation.

@Watchkeys I don’t want to take anything away from the poster but that was a really inspiring post and It’s helped me with how I feel about something.

Absolutely @Watchkeys
very insightful - thank you

I was asking @Seaside1234 who she felt would judge her to see if it was a specific person or maybe just society as a whole.

You do hear it a lot in real life, about how important it is to work on a relationship, yes. But what does that comment mean? Surely it means both of you talking to one another, trying to see the other's POV, coming up with solutions to issues, perhaps both of you compromising to avoid a stalemate? Not one person doing all the work and stifling her own needs while the other person stubbornly refuses to cooperate or show any consideration? Noone is advocating that, are they?

As you say, people don't usually say openly "you should work on a relationship" when they hear you've left someone. And unless they have experienced exactly the same situation themselves, they have no clue so their opinion is easy to dismiss. One thing I found very useful was to make new, single friends, most of whom were divorced. No judgement there.

Mind you, when I left my exh, not even his family was judgey. They seemed embarrased and apologetic about his behaviour. These days it's probably considered more unacceptable for the woman to stay after an affair/affairs, though.

@80s sorry didn’t mean to answer just agreeing really that you judged whether you do and whether you don’t. You can’t win really.

Thanks for all your thoughts and support, I really appreciate it. Still completely paralysed with fear at the thought of saying I want to separate. I don't know if I'll be able to get the words out, I don't know if the terrified voices shrieking in my head that I am NOT ALLOWED to do this will have abated enough to make it possible. I can't even allow myself to think that it's ok, let alone say it. My mind gasps 'who do you think you are? When did you start thinking you were better than anybody else? Stop causing trouble and work harder so you don't feel so guilty.' And I just can't get past it.