Terrified to face up to marriage problems

[Seaside1234]

Paralysed with fear to finally put my foot down about my husband's behaviour. I'm so conflict-averse it's ridiculous, but I don't want to go on like this.

Married 17 years, children 15 and 11. He's always kind of done what he wants and I've always avoided conflict - I earn more in a more stable job, but have always done more housework and childcare too. Long history of crippling depression on his part which eventually got treated. He had an affair about 6 years ago, I found out, we decided to stay together and went through marriage counselling where we addressed some of our issues. We didn't keep that level of communication up (he's as conflict averse as I am), he stopped being willing to have harder conversations and I was too scared to push that.

His work disappeared overnight in Covid and hasn't come back to the same extent. I have been supporting us almost entirely now for about 4 years, I guess. He hasn't contributed to mortgage or main bills for at least 2 years. He's always liked a drink, but that has spiralled to a significant problem over the last 18 months or so. He's now drinking, including going out drinking, most nights in the week. So spending significant amounts of money on booze while not supporting his family. He gets up late every day, and while he seems to be working a bit, it doesn't seem like much to me.

In all of this, I have completely gone off him and fallen out of love with him. We haven't had sex in well over a year (my choice, but he hasn't addressed it at all). We're essentially separated but sleeping in the same bed and I'm paying for everything. I think I want to separate, and I've reached the point where I think it might be best for our kids too.

I was diagnosed with high-functioning autism a few years ago and find it very difficult to start a conversation which will be very hard. We are both hugely averse to any conflict - we never argue, and the thought of getting angry with him makes me feel physically sick, probably as a hangover from how I was parented. I plan to ask if he'll consider going back to counselling as a way to have difficult conversations in a managed environment. But what do I do if he says no? I'm completely stuck and would appreciate any thoughts from people who might know where I'm coming from.

@80s I think everyone will judge me, but no-one more so than myself.

You have been very honest on this thread and because of that had really great advice.
I relate to much of your situation. I am 3 months separated but living in the same house. My regret is not being brave enough to sooner.
As a health professional our training is to solve problems and I was trying for a long time to look for a solution that could sustain a marriage that was beneficial to him but not me.
Also when telling people although it is difficult I have experienced no judgement and suspect you won’t either.

Could you rehearse? Can you tell him in a different way? For example, could you write a fresh unsent letter every day for a month, just a quick paragraph or two, that tells him everything you feel, with as much swearing and underlining and red ink as you need to get it all out? Just so that you can practice saying how you feel? Nobody would ever see.

For me, it helped to imagine a character who was nothing like me in my situation (I chose Ruby from Good Girls on Netflix!), and work out what they would do/say. 'What would Ruby do?' is still something I say to myself on quite a regular basis, because it was such a useful tool, that helped me realise I don't have to live life according to my own conditioning.

I was surprised at the support and understanding I experienced, from friends, from acquaintances, from medical professionals! I think I learned to be kinder to myself as a result. And I was at least 10 years older than you at the time. We live and learn. Don't write yourself off. A lot of the feelings you have now are very likely connected to the issues you have had in your marriage, not to your innate characteristics.

So, counselling appointment is tomorrow evening. We haven't exchanged a single word in person today (fairly standard these days, tbh). I'm slightly overwhelmed that I'm at a point where I might actually tell him I want out. I have no idea what his reaction will be, but I'm trying to get my head around letting that be his problem. Thank you so much for your thoughts and support, it's been really helpful x

Rip the plaster off. Once its said the process has started.

Good luck tomorrow I agree with pp just say it quick and then it’s out there.

Oh fuckfuckfuck I'm scared. I don't even really know what of. Am I actually being unsupportive and unkind to not support him when his industry is one that has suffered significantly since Covid? Since I think I'll have that levelled at me.

I checked last night - he's paid nothing towards mortgage and vast majority of bills for 4 years. Year before Covid, he paid about half of his agreed contribution. My salary has not kept pace with everything now costing megabucks and I have pretty much no financial leeway. Yet I'm sure I'm going to be told that somehow he's right and I'm being mean/unkind/wrong.

I hear you, @Seaside1234 I really do. My biggest stumbling block is thinking I'm not allowed to say I want to separate too. Always always I'M NOT ALLOWED. Even more so now as I have heard via my kids that there is a trip to New York in the planning for next year. DH has apparently told the kids we are going, but I haven't heard a word about this. So clearly he has no idea at all that separation and divorce are on the horizon, and he is planning this family trip away. I already feel as if I have to go, even though it's the last thing I want to do.

Please please get everything out at your appointment tonight. Take a deep breath and say it. If you don't it will set you back to square one like me and you will have all of this to go through again. Deep breath, say it. Good luck OP, we are all with you

If you're an unkind person who's deliberately kicking a man while he's down, then he'll be delighted you're going, right? "You're right, John. I have been awful to you. You should be with someone more deserving of you. Your comments have convinced me that it really is time for us to break up."

The industry I worked in for 20 years is in the process of going down the drain due to the advances of artificial intelligence. So I'm moving in another direction at the age of 54. My partner has been supportive. That has not involved him financing a drinking habit while I get up late and make a mess for him to clean up. If he decided to leave me tomorrow, I would have to suck it up.

You have 2 separate issues, OP.

1. Your husband is clearly depressed and now on his way to becoming an alcoholic, if he's not one already

2. For a number of reasons, you have fallen out of love with him

Issue #2 is reason enough to separate. Therefore you would not be unkind to do so, even if it wasn't for issue #1.

As for issue #1 - this is a very serious problem that is not up to you to fix. Nor would you be able to fix it. He is the one who needs to accept he has a problem and he needs to do something about it.

Unfortunately the one thing you CAN do is confront him about this problem. I don't mean be angry with him (although you have reasons to be). But you have to bring it up.

My family has recently had to deal with the death of my brother in law, who died of alcohol-related problems. It was on the cards for a number of years and his own mother wasn't able to help him, in spite of housing him for many months. The counsellor who was trying to help him told her that she was effectively enabling his drinking for housing and feeding him etc.

I'm not saying kicking him out of the marital home will make him face his problem and deal with it etc. What I'm saying is that you are not actually doing anything for him by paying for his drinking, housing him etc.

So while you might still find it difficult to discuss these things, you have NOTHING to feel guilty about.

How did it go @Seaside1234 ??

I wondered if your counseling was helping ? Or has he got the councilor on his side? (It happens frequently)

We went to counselling. I managed to get out that I couldn't handle his drinking any more (it was horribly hard to say). He surprised me later by telling me he'd made an appointment to contact local alcohol services. I was so surprised and hopeful that I did what I could to be better to be around as well. Since then, at least one day of the last 3 weekends he's gone out in the middle of the day without any word to anyone and come back drunk by the evening. In addition to going out on Fridays and drinking on other evenings. Yesterday, he was out drinking when I think he's told our 11 yo he was going to the shops, and I was on way back from a trip.

He cancelled last counselling appointment as he had to work. Now he's said this week's one is inconvenient as well for work, ie we've literally only had the intake meeting. Message said 'is there loads more to discuss?'

Am I going mad? Is this behaviour somehow acceptable? I just want out. Don't think he'll co-operate with counselling at all. I feel so frightened and guilty for wanting to end this but I don't think it's ok for my kids to have this going on.

It's 100% over he is alcohol dependent and he isn't invested in your marriage at all.

He doesn't contribute financially
He doesn't contribute practically
He doesn't contribute emotionally
He is setting a terrible example to your children
He is wasting money
And I bet he doesn't involve himself with the children much either

Is that black and white enough?
He needs to go

Sorry, didn't see the date of the original post

I stand by everything I've said

He's now started playing you

Most people would say he's not a good enough father - including him, if he was honest

You need to see a counsellor ON YOUR OWN before even thinking about it with him

@Seaside1234 it couldn't be clearer now that he's an alcoholic and the situation as it stands js enabling him to continue being an alcoholic. I'd recommend you contact AI-Anon or other organisations that can provide support and advice to families of alcoholics.

He's right, you know. There's nothing more to discuss: he has a drinking problem and needs to sort himself out, and it looks like he needs to be kicked out before he is able to do it.

Good luck - am sorry you're going through this.

Of course this behaviour is unacceptable. Of course you are not going mad. Go to counselling on your own to work out why you assume his behaviour must be, by definition, fine, and if you don’t like it, you must be mad. Because that is mad.

You don’t need him to agree with you that his behaviour is unacceptable. He won’t ever agree. Why would he? You’re housing him and paying for his booze. It’s in his interest to convince you this is fine and dandy and you’re overreacting.

You don’t need his permission to leave. You would be insane to stay. This is harmful to your children. You’re saying he was drunk while your kids were in his care, with you away. What if something awful had happened to your kids while he wasn’t in a fit state to look after them? Would you still think his behaviour was probably OK and you were just being judgemental?

Wake up. He is a serious alcoholic. He is a danger to your kids in this state. This will not change.

OK. He was given the opportunity to talk., he ran, to the bar.
This is no longer a situation you can counter. Its him up against his demons.
Enabling will only prologue the agony
You leave, & tell him if he has the wherewithal to come/get clean, to contact you & you will decide if you care want to listen

Of course he doesn't want to go to counseling OP. He knows what a shit he is and he doesn't want anyone pointing it out. Go to the counselling session alone. Send him a message telling him it's over. I don't think you'll be able to say what you need to face to face so send a message. Tell him to read the message then file for divorce. Don't criticise or blame him just outline the facts. You're not happy paying for everything and doing all the housework, you don't like his drinking, you want to live differently. Good luck.

Thank you all. I know what the only option is here, I'm just paralysed by fear and guilt. I will have to listen to so much anger, so much of how I'm wrong. What if he refuses to accept it and won't leave? I suspect this is quite likely.

My overriding feeling is who do I think I am? What on earth gives me the right to fuck everyone else's lives up?

He’s the one fucking up everyone else’s lives. If he takes ok control of his addiction, made a positive contribution to the household and was emotionally available to you and your children you wouldn’t be having these issues. They are issues he has created, you have every right to remove yourself and your children from living in such a dysfunctional and ultimately harmful environment.

Who do you think you are? You are a mother acting in the best interests of her children, you are a wife who has the strength not to be belittled and bullied any longer, you are a woman who is extremely capable and doesn’t need anyone else’s approval.

You don’t have to hear his anger, he is entitled to be angry but you have no obligation to hear it. You can walk away, do not engage, tune him out. His emotions are not your concern and you are not responsible for how he reacts.

You are capable, you can do this, it will be hard but once you are through it you will be so much happier. Your children will be growing up seeing they have a strong, independent mother who stood up for herself and them.

I recently heard about a female run organisation that was created to support women as they plan and leave partners. You might find it helpful as I think they offer the support to create a step by step plan as to what you want/need to do which can help you feel more in control of your situation. They offer affordable legal advice (with payment plans) as well as tools for navigating various aspects of separation/divorce including custody
www.separatespace.co.uk/

With absolute kindness, OP, you need to shake yourself out of this.

All these ‘who do I think I am? What gives me the right?’ Thoughts are not anything you actually believe. They are ways your mind is trying to dissuade you from making a big change where you can’t mentally model the outcome with any accuracy.

These are in some sense cowardly thoughts. (Not that you are a cowardly person - you’re not. But there is a part of you that holds all your fear, and none of my our confidence or logic, that pops up at these moments to question you so that you will stay in inertia, accepting the status quo).

You don’t need to answer these ‘what gives me the right’ questions. They’re not real. You can just acknowledge them
as an expression of anxiety, and then proceed with what you know is right.

He might be angry. That’s Ok. That’s not your responsibility. You don’t have to fox his anger for him or make it go away. Let go of the idea that he needs to agree with you that this is the right thing. He won’t. He’s an addict who isn’t able to think clearly.

If he refuses to leave, you take legal advice. You don’t have to have worked it all out yourself in advance. You can take it step by step, concentrating on keeping yourself and your children safe.

He is no longer your responsibility.