Terrified to face up to marriage problems

[Seaside1234]

Paralysed with fear to finally put my foot down about my husband's behaviour. I'm so conflict-averse it's ridiculous, but I don't want to go on like this.

Married 17 years, children 15 and 11. He's always kind of done what he wants and I've always avoided conflict - I earn more in a more stable job, but have always done more housework and childcare too. Long history of crippling depression on his part which eventually got treated. He had an affair about 6 years ago, I found out, we decided to stay together and went through marriage counselling where we addressed some of our issues. We didn't keep that level of communication up (he's as conflict averse as I am), he stopped being willing to have harder conversations and I was too scared to push that.

His work disappeared overnight in Covid and hasn't come back to the same extent. I have been supporting us almost entirely now for about 4 years, I guess. He hasn't contributed to mortgage or main bills for at least 2 years. He's always liked a drink, but that has spiralled to a significant problem over the last 18 months or so. He's now drinking, including going out drinking, most nights in the week. So spending significant amounts of money on booze while not supporting his family. He gets up late every day, and while he seems to be working a bit, it doesn't seem like much to me.

In all of this, I have completely gone off him and fallen out of love with him. We haven't had sex in well over a year (my choice, but he hasn't addressed it at all). We're essentially separated but sleeping in the same bed and I'm paying for everything. I think I want to separate, and I've reached the point where I think it might be best for our kids too.

I was diagnosed with high-functioning autism a few years ago and find it very difficult to start a conversation which will be very hard. We are both hugely averse to any conflict - we never argue, and the thought of getting angry with him makes me feel physically sick, probably as a hangover from how I was parented. I plan to ask if he'll consider going back to counselling as a way to have difficult conversations in a managed environment. But what do I do if he says no? I'm completely stuck and would appreciate any thoughts from people who might know where I'm coming from.

Oh @Seaside1234 I know exactly where you are coming from. I am scared to death of conflict and will put up with ANYTHING to avoid it. Everything you are saying is what I am going through too, and despite all of his crappy behaviour, I blame myself for feeling bad towards him. Indeed, he is the king of DARVO and every time I have plucked up the courage to say something, he turns it back on me and I back down feeling like the worst person in the world. And I would advise you if you do go to Relate or a similar counselling service, please please please stick to your guns. I took DH to a couples session, after several sessions on my own, with the intention of spelling out that the marriage was over and that we need to work out the best way to move forwards for the kids, and he ended up pulling the wool over the eyes of the counsellor with the outcome that I was sent away promising to be kinder to him. Please make sure this does not happen to you. This was in November 2019, and here we are now, still stuck together with him not even slightly acknowledging that anything is wrong. Even 13 years without sex/touch/affection doesn't seem to ring any bells for him. One very basic thing I asked him to do was to brush his damn teeth occasionally, and still last night I had to get out of bed and sleep downstairs as I could not breathe near him. Of course, I tiptoed out of the room and crept quietly downstairs to avoid waking him. WTF. I am an intelligent educated woman like you OP, and still I act like a complete idiot. Why? Why don't I fight back? I guess that like you I want to keep the peace. But peace for who? Not me. And not the kids.

You are allowed to be happy. You do not owe him anything. Take a deep breath and take the leap, OP. And I'll do it with you

Oh my goodness, thank you for giving me this way to look at it. I've always been averse to telling another adult that they need to change, I figure people have to want to change for it to be valid. And this just frames it so well. He can do what he wants, but I don't have to be part of it. Thank you.

You need to be real with yourself, hes not the one. YOU CAN DO SO MUCH BETTER!

@Seaside1234

I'm glad that helped. When it dawned on me, I'd been in a shitty relationship for a while, and my self esteem was loooow. I remember walking down the street and a lightbulb coming on above my head: 'I suddenly know what's wrong with me: my partner!' Once I ended the relationship, I stopped getting told I was wrong, faulty, needed my head read, should get therapy, had mental problems etc etc. Brilliant!

I hope it does the same for you. Do you have many other dramas in life, except in your relationship? Bet you don't :)

@WinkyTinky I'm so sorry you're putting up with this shit too. I've tried to get past it before and got nowhere, but this time I think I might have some proper momentum, and the advice and support here has been awesome. Oddly, my husband doesn't brush his teeth regularly either. No idea what that says about his self-respect, but pretty minging. I wish I could tell you to just do it, but unfortunately I know exactly how you feel, and that it's not that simple.

@Watchkeys no, my life is otherwise pretty cool. I would be just fine if we separated, and tbh I think my kids would be ok too, but I worry he might work to disrupt that. However, we'll have to see.

Would individual counselling be better for you to go through with your decision?

It seems you've already decided what you want to do, just need support in going through with it

As an aside, & I do so believe whatever the coming fallout brings, that you should leave & make the most of the rest of your life. But he is going to go for everything he can, he has no or little income, he is going to turn really very nasty. So you should probably seek out a good solicitor before the break up conversation.
Information is power, but just be warned.

@NotNowGertrude unfortunately, no, I don't think I've decided anything. I still get overwhelmed by shame/guilt/fear whenever I think about leaving him. Conditioning is strong...

Hi @Seaside1234 I sent you a DM X

A pp is so right, I've always said I want MN to put at the top of every page - Words are cheap, actions are what matter. Your DH's actions prove over and over that this marriage is pretty dead Op, it just needs a decent burial. You pay for everything, do the housework, how would you be worse off apart?

@Mix56

'Also I skipped over the "last" affair, what do you think goes on in the pub every night ? he's playing the lad obviously.'

Actually, I don't think this is true, although I was spectacularly wrong about the affair, which I genuinely didn't think was possible. I know the pub he mostly drinks in and it is full of other regulars with drink problems, not younger women!

I know I wouldn't, I know he's not doing anything, but it's still hard. We were happy, we did love each other, I'm not someone who takes marriage lightly, and we have kids. I know in a year or so everything might be so much better, but I'm not sure I have the right or the strength to put everyone through the bit in between.

I'm not someone who takes marriage lightly

Do you think really want your life to be 'taking marriage so seriously that she committed to being miserable', though? How seriously do you actually want to take it? It must be somewhat dependant on the quality of the relationship?

Yeah. My plan, should I ever get up the strength to do this, is to buy him out of the house if possible. What he does with the money then is up to him. Thankfully we don't have much in the way of savings (because, drinking all his money). But I can't change him being entitled to part of my pension, which makes me absolutely RAGING.

Hmmm. That makes me realise that yes, maybe I do believe that deep down, even if my conscious mind would say otherwise. For better or for worse - you can't just throw your kids' lives into disarray because you're a bit fed up. But then my primary operating statements, well learnt in childhood, are 'don't make a fuss' and 'what if you're wrong?'. I really appreciate all the wise and true words people have given me here, and I hope they've helped other people too, but I'm starting to realise they're not going to immediately overcome a lifetime of minimising and self-doubt.

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I wonder if some 1-2-1 counselling for you would be helpful.

• it would help to organise your thoughts and turn your fear of conflict into something manageable. It’s obviously a massive issue for you (I hear you sister…)
• if indeed you decide to divorce, then he probably won’t go quietly* and there will be conflict on and off throughout the divorce process that you’ll need to deal with

*and why should he? You’ve made life very easy for him.

I'd strongly suggest individual counselling for you.

Your marriage is over and is abusive but something is stopping you from seeing it, which seems to relate to your childhood.

He isn't interested in changing, and why would he be, he has a cushy number where his wife subsidizing his drinking.

You however are in desperate need of support.

@bleughgreen one of each. Yes, this is an issue for me, that this is their image of a man and a father. My 15 yo son is just such a lovely human being, I don't want his life to end up like his father's.

they're not going to immediately overcome a lifetime of minimising and self-doubt

The thing that struck me, like a tonne of bricks, in my own life, is that that doesn't need overcoming. Everything mended in that moment, for me. All of my 'standard' responses which stemmed from my childhood kept going for a bit, because they were habits, but I was observing them, rather than being submerged in them.

The thing that did it for me was to recognise that, when I turned 18, I didn't 'stop needing parents' (which is how life, legally, is presented to us), what I actually needed was to start being my own parent. I was suddenly aware of the contrast between how much work there is in parenting someone, and how much I did under the heading of 'taking care of myself'. I thought that the latter was 'Eat well, exercise, get plenty of early nights, don't do drugs' etc, but suddenly realised that it was about choosing appropriate ways to spend my time, that made me feel happy, and choosing company with whom I feel happy, and generally all the things we do for our kids beyond basic care needs, that show them that we love them. It's crucial that you show you that you love you.

Does that make sense? For me, it took out all the potential 'work I needed to do on myself', and the years of slog in therapy that I envisaged: I nearly fell over when it hit me! We don't have to live according to 'how we should live'; nobody's watching, nobody cares, and if people judge, we can reject them.

You're free. You're not held by your marriage or having to be miserable for your kids' sake, because what you choose for yourself will be the example your kids follow. Don't exemplify choosing misery!

But you arnt just a bit fed up op this man is not acting as your husband. He is failing you and your children. You are providing everything for them and he is spending money In the pub. That is taking the complete piss out of you. I think it's probably best for him to split aswell as this will be the only way he sorts himself out. You are his enabler unfortunately and that isn't good for him either. You need to be strong and tell him it's over weather you do it in counselling session or get a friend or family member with you but you need to do it This dynamic won't be any good for your kids to witness it will be best for them too. Be strong. Big hugs.

@AnnaMagnani

'Your marriage is over and is abusive but something is stopping you from seeing it, which seems to relate to your childhood.'

I still really struggle to think of it as abusive. I put myself here willingly, nobody made me, and not feeling able to get out is due to my own issues. The problem, I think, is just the deep, deep conditioning to not make a fuss, that what I think and feel is less important than inconveniencing other people. Recognising it doesn't make me stop believing it, yet.

You know you're not wrong and you don't need his permission.

The thought of something is generally worse than the reality.

Oh @Seaside1234 you sound so much like myself. I’m also high functioning autistic and drove myself into a nervous breakdown trying to leave my husband of 12 years. I basically hated him in the end but couldn’t leave him because I couldn’t take the conflict. I got myself in an absolute mess.

But eventually I did. I got so confused over who was to blame and it circled and circled my brain. But I’ve come to the conclusion several years later that he can do what he wants but I didn’t have to like it. I could have left at any point. It’s not up to us to change people into people we like, we find people as they are and they stay if we like them. I hope you leave. There are some really nice people out there. I’ve moved on and have found a lovely partner, who is also ND And we just get each other.