Really confused about everything

[squishyarms]

This is going to be long so apologies in advance!

I have been married over 10 and together with my H for 20 years. We are both early 40's. We run a business together and spend most of our time together or dealing with work issues, or talking about work. We have two DS's 11&9.

The business was DH's first but once both kids were at school full time I've been heavily involved and taken more of a front seat - customer facing. So I'm basically the face of it now. Although everyone knows he's there he does the majority of school pick ups as I'm at work the majority of the time.

During and post Covid my DH suffered with some serious depression and anxiety, which had been bubbling away for years but Covid, a family bereavement and a house move exacerbated everything and we were in a total mess. I was living on eggshells, kids were nervous around him and living on screens because I was always at work and he was often in bed. I finally went with him to the GP and he was given the meds he needed and started to recover. at this point I felt like a carer more than a partner.

I did a terrible thing when he was at rock bottom. I met someone and fell in love with them. They were like a ray of sunshine in my stressful miserable life and showed me what it was like to talk openly and they listened to me. Nothing physically happened but we spent hours texting and chatting at work and whilst I was out and about at cash and carry, cleaning etc. I had no idea but as my DH got better mentally - while he wasn't well he couldn't help it but he literally checked out of me and my life - he started to notice me on my phone more and making an effort with my appearance.

He confronted me one day and I admitted I had been talking to this person and that I felt like I loved them. Obviously he hit the roof, we had some horrific weeks/months. He got a ladder and a rope and took it to the bottom of the garden where we have a huge tree and threatened to hang himself, he smashed plates and cups and called me all sorts of horrible things. I almost said nothing during these times, I didn't have the right words, I wanted to end things. But he said the kids would hate me, I would ruin their lives, I would have to move out (we have a big mortgage), I wouldn't have a job, the whole community would hate me because I've cheated.

So I stopped talking to the other person, both I and they are heartbroken. But I can't do that to my children.

This has been since before Christmas and I can't move forward. DH drinks and vapes too much, but he says these are the things that calm him down from the stress I've caused him.

I'm miserable but he is right, I'd had nowhere to live, no job if I left, so we are stuck in this daily cycle of being pleasant to each other, which we are actually really good at, we do have a lot of the same values and we work together as a team for the kids. I have stopped having sex with him, I realised I was only doing it for him. I never actually felt the urge to do it, I just agreed when he wanted and although it was fine when we did it I was nearly always thinking about this other person.

Now he just gives me the ick, the vaping - he does it in bed and in the kitchen and all over the house. I can't ask him to stop as it's my fault he started. And when he's pissed and half asleep on the sofa he doesn't even know he's doing it but he picks his nose and eats it.

I don't even know what I'm asking. But I'm so miserable

Yes it's an iPhone so I won't do that. Maybe I'll see if I can borrow my friends phone if I can go over to hers in the week.

I just feel so guilty about breaking up the family but I know this isn't right.

So I told my husband I was unhappy and didn't think I'd ever be happy with him, and he sent me this. Am I completely mad for throwing this all away? The more he sends me these things though it just feels like I'm being backed into a corner.

I know you’re unhappy and I hate seeing you this way. I am here for you, I want you to open up to me, show me your vulnerability and emotions so we can connect again.

I could write an essay about everything positive in your life and how you have so much to be happy about, but you don’t want to hear that.
I also have so much to be happy about, yet am so broken inside. My current outlook on life is that no one has it 100% perfect, so if 80% of my life is good then I’ll suck up the 20% of shit that isn’t. I’m not saying you have to do that aswell, I’m just saying everyone appears to have shit parts in their world.

You have a choice to change things.
You can choose to love or choose to leave.
You can choose to build or choose to break.
You can choose honesty or choose betrayal.
You can choose our family or choose someone else. The choices are all yours and if I could help you make them then I would.

I had a choice at the beginning of all this, I could’ve run away, but I didn’t, that was my choice and I don’t regret it in the slightest. Because I chose to fight for what we have made together. I wouldn’t wish this fight on my worst enemy, but it has made me realise what is important in life, and to keep fighting for it.
I wish I had a choice now, but I don’t. I’ve worn my heart on my sleeve and stand by my willingness to forgive and forget the pain and the past, because no one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes.
Despite knowing that the betrayal is still continuing, I will endeavour to focus on the positives and hope you can eventually too. For one day I believe we can be happy again, but it won’t just happen, a happy marriage takes lots of hard work, which I must admit I didn’t realise before all this happened.
I could write a million more words, but I feel you’re probably bored of reading this now so I’ll stop.

@squishyarms - this is desperately tricky for you but you need to remember that his experience of the marriage is completely different to yours. That’s why he’s desperately clinging on. And he’s not doing it out of love for you. He’s doing it because of what he wants for himself.

You have been unhappy for years and he just keeps punishing you for it. Vaping the whole time and blaming you when you ask him to stop is a rotten thing to do. Threatening suicide and smashing things was a rotten thing to do. Getting involved with another man was a rotten thing to do.

Your marriage appears to function superficially but it’s over as a marriage so what is it you would be throwing away?

You need to stop buying into his narrative because that’s a big part of what’s keeping you stuck. You’re waiting for his permission to leave. You’re not going to get that. You need to accept you will be doing it without his permission.

Yes, there will be huge upheaval but I’ve known plenty of children of divorced parents and they’ve been perfectly happy and functional. In an ideal world, all parents would have a gloriously happy marriage and stay together but modelling an unhappy and dysfunctional marriage isn’t helpful for your DCs.

And the huge upheaval will ultimately settle down; seems to me that it’s a small price to pay when the alternative is continuing in a miserable marriage until one of you dies.

His message is nonsense. You say he's not horrible - but he is. There's no self-reflection in that message. He's taking no responsibility. If you want out you do not need his agreement. Your energy is wasted trying to get him to see your pov - he won't.

I'd go as far as to say that message was created with ChatGPT...it's a fleshed out equivalent of those 'laugh, live, love' posters.

Cripes his reply is very 'me.'

Ask him to message you again using facts, not opinions, including HIS 12 month plan for change.

That self serving message of his was just yet another way of blaming you. Abusers are adept at blaming everyone else except their own self too.

You haven't broken up the family; he has by his treatment of you and in turn his children. Better to be also from a so called broken home than to remain in one.

The effects all this is having on your children too is incalculable but its bad, very bad and it could well go onto effect them in adulthood as well.

What do you want to teach them about relationships and just what are they learning here?.

Ah the old old story. The trouble with having an affair when you are miserable in your marriage is you immediately become the bad guy; whatever it was that made you miserable doesn’t count any more, the victim of the affair is always assumed to be the good guy. And sometimes that’s true, but mostly it’s a more nuanced situation. The end result is that all the power goes to the victim. The wise victim who loves their partner works through it to salvage and rebuild the relationship, maybe even accepts they contributed to the situation.

Sadly this is not your situation.

He’s keeping you captive and punishing you and tracking your movements to show he’s in control. He would rather have you miserable and cowed and walking on eggshells than happy. He hates you. He knows how much you hate his vaping and the nose picking shows he doesn’t give a shit what you think.

Your children may be fooled now but it won’t be long before they twig what a destructive relationship yours is. Do you want them to grow up believing marriage is shit and relationships are about power and control?

Divorcing him will be tough, but you’ve done childbirth so you know about short term pain for long term gain.

You are married. There is no “his” and “yours”, everything is jointly owned, including the business. Things to think about before contacting a solicitor (and I’m sure you can do this by video but can he hack into your IT?)

• does the business have any intrinsic value, or is the value in what you and DH do (ie could you sell the business?). Who owns what shares?
• house/property values and mortgages
• pensions
• significant debts
• what work and salary could you get outside the family business
• if you stopped running the family business would it crash? How quickly?
• if you had the children 50/50, had 50% of the marriage’s equity, and could work outside the family business would you be able to house the children adequately? (Adequately - not palatially)

OP you are being abused and you can’t see it.
I don’t usually condone emotional affairs but I can see how you became close to someone else.
He is wanting to ‘make it work’ but then he’s vaping all day and night.
He’s asking you to be ‘vulnerable’ but he’s not listening to you at all when you are.
He basically doesn’t want to lose someone who is doing the lion’s share of the work who he can manipulate.
Telling you your DC will end up in prison? He has to vape because of you? What a load of crap.
That message he wrote is manipulative and condescending. He’s willing to forgive? This is a man who took a rope and ladder into the garden to torture you - he had no intention of using it. Anyone who is around someone who is truly suicidal often doesn’t know - they do go out into the garden, or the garage, or a field, where nobody can see. They don’t want anyone to know.
He knows you don’t love him and that you don’t want to have sex with him. But he wants to keep you there like a hostage, out of guilt, and your children will pick up on your unhappiness.
Follow all the PPs legal advice and about Women’s Aid.
That message is one of the most manipulative things I have ever read - look at how bad you are, and what a good person I am for staying.
He doesn’t have any care for you OP at all. He is dangerous.

Thanks everyone. He is manipulative but in a way that makes me feel like I'm the bad person all the time: for breaking up the family, for leaving etc etc

Reading these responses makes me realise how I am not going completely mad. My feeling are valid and I need to stand up for myself.
My voice just seems so quiet

Look up DARVO I found it on a thread here and it explained a lot!

He's toxic. You must stop listening to his bullshit. He doesn't have your back, he doesn't care about you, he only wants what's best for him. That is keeping you where he wants you and where he can control you. You serve a purpose for him, nothing more, nothing less.

Put yourself and your children first. No more excuses. Get help, prepare your exit and go. He can threaten all he wants - if you are in physical danger, 999. If he threatens to kill himself, 999. What he does, his reaction - that's on him. He's an adult, he's responsible. Not you.

I spoke to him last night and he is completely unreasonable. I said if I'm leaving I'd need somewhere to stay and he said no you can move in with AP. I said what about having the kids each week and he said you are welcome to come and visit them in their home. You have a home you are choosing to leave you don't get to have another one. He talks to me like I'm a child. I think I'll tell him tonight it's officially over. We have a flat that's let out so I'm going to say I want to go there. But that'll take at least a month I guess. He talks to me like I'm an idiot, his tone actually scares me.

I can't move in with AP anyway. I have no desire to move in with him and I doubt he'd want that either
I've not seen him for 2 years

You need to stop speaking to him about plans op.

Just do it quietly and go when the time is right. Take the kids and just get out.

Let him threaten you with his bullshit. In a divorce court it'll come to nothing. Also if he threatens suicide call the police and an ambulance and watch him get embarrassed and never do it again. I've seen it happen with men like him. It's nothing but a manipulation tactic and they pack it the fook in pretty quickly when you show him you won't play that game.

He doesn't get to decide if you have your own place or move in with AP! I feel like that responses pushes it all back on the affair again, which actually isn't your point. Are you able to access any counselling to help you start to emerge from the fog he's creating for you?

I have some parralels in my situation, and have started sharing some of his texts with just a couple of good friends just to get another perspective, and they say the same as some of the pps above, able to point out the manipulations when I see things as a bit off but I can't put my finger on it? It's really hard to realize how much you've been manipulated, it freaks me out that I can't see it properly when I think of myself as reasonably perceptive. I know narcissism is thrown around a lot as a term at the moment, but reading about vulnerable narcissists was eye opening, seeing how he plays that victim role so well and makes me the bad guy! Good luck, you need to escape this and show your kids what healthy relationships look like, and that they should walk away from abusive ones, which this is!

couple counselling

Errr no? He’s abusive

Sounds very similar. I have shared things with a few friends and he knows about it and he's really cross. He says I've asked the wrong friends for advice!!! My step mum knows most of it and she would do everything to help me if I left. She said don't wait until the kids are 18 and waste another 10 years of your life.

He absolutely loves playing the victim. He has done it for years. He once had a cancer scare and literally couldn't function until we got the results. He kept saying over and over 'I knew it would be me, I knew it would happen to me, it's just my luck' honestly he's led a charmed life.

Yes they would. The threshold for preventing a man from getting 50:50 is actually quite high.

The starting point is 50:50 unless you go to family court and get Cafcass involved and have hard evidence that he has physically hurt the children

We tried this a few years ago when I still wanted to salvage things. But it just cemented my mind that I am done. I'm not in love anymore

I do think you should leave OP. I think the two things that stand out is that you need to speak to a recruiter about the kind of job you could start applying for and would likely get. You need to give notice on the flat, sorry the tenant would be homeless but they would find another place to live. You need somewhere to live!

I was at work on Friday night and because I hadn't read a message he'd sent me for 1hr 45 mins he accused me of sneaking out of work and meeting up with AP.

I run a bloody pub. There's no sneaking anywhere. Everyone knows what you are doing the whole time!

This thread is worth a read when you worry about impact on kids https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4832088-children-of-divorced-parents-what-was-it-really-like

If you can try to keep things civil (hard when someone is behaving like he is) then a lot of people talk about their relief