OLFD (On-line fucking dating)

[niadainud]

Trying to forget about the guy who I really like and who I think likes me but who can't seem to commit to so much as a phone call, so am trying on-line dating - but my god it's hard work.

First weeding out all the ones you don't find attractive or who aren't remotely compatible and then seeing how they negotiate the first date (which I always think of as "Date Zero").

I'm suggesting meeting halfway between where we both live, but he's lobbying for me to travel to him (central London), saying he'll buy me cocktails. Red flag? I don't even know any more what is and what isn't.

Seems nice otherwise. Hasn't tried to turn the conversation sexual or mentioned going back to his.

Any thoughts?

It didn't go well - he was working from home and he invited me round while he was finishing a meeting (not the original plan, but the meeting over-ran) which felt weird and uncomfortable. Not at all suitable for a second date and I stayed less than two hours.

I've pretty much freaked out about the whole thing and don't know what I want, so I've probably blown it anyway. Having said all that, I think he is still interested so I might give it another chance as I think he is fundamentally a decent guy with some good qualities. I just feel like I'm carrying around so much baggage from past relationships and it's getting in the way.

Or maybe you aught to listen to your needs instead of blaming yourself for how you feel about some guy that has the, sorry but, the audacity to invite you to his home for a second 'date'..

That's not decent, he's not decent.

Even if it wasn't on top of him being lazy the first date and,changing the plan last minute for the second.

Your instincts are telling you it wasn't acceptable. Stop working so hard to dismiss them.

Look at your word choice! You say you are 'freaked out' but 'think he's still interested so I might give it another chance'. Eh?!

Don't give it another chance!

You're actually putting yourself in danger now. Actively. I don't know if it's to convince yourself that you're not 'damaged' from your 'baggage' or due to loneliness or what...but please stop.

You have nothing to prove you know.
You deserve someone who respects and prioritises you. But you also need to start prioritising yourself too.

There will be other men. Good ones. Who don't treat you like an afterthought. This one...he isn't it.

Agree whole-heartedly with @Pinkbonbon

Adding: even if he's invited you to his because something came up, aside from the fact that I guarantee you that was bollocks from him, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO.

You sound great, honestly. You are the prize, not him or any other guy.

For OLD to work well, you need to have already had sufficient email and telephone conversations to make sure this next bit is not the case:-

I can't really expect him to be super keen on me before we've even met, but that's no reason for him not to make a bit of an effort

of course you can expect him to be keen and enthusiastic to want to meet up. Of course he should make the effort, check your self-esteem. That's the whole point, you should both be looking forward to seeing each other face to face.

The fact he isn't prepared to compromise speaks volumes - he isn't that bothered about setting the date up for success.

He thinks you're an inconvenience. Is that really someone you want to invest time in?

So basically OP he showed you who he was at the start. When you didn’t dance to his tune and wanted him to meet you halfway he relented to show you he’s a great guy but after that one date, he’s referred back to it being all on his terms.

So he can only fit you in after work but he’s got weekends out with his mates? And his you’ve been to his once, that what he’ll expect from now on.

IMO the first few dates should be going out having a great time in bars, cafes, pubs etc - not sitting in his living room while he’s working. Hes a low effort low bar man - throw him back

Yes all this. Timeworn and true

Are you overlooking the fact that you aren't physically attracted to him, find his communication style rude and weird, and the second meet was also rude and weird because of his good job?

If he got laid off next week would you care if he was interested or not?

(assume he didn't offer to go out as soon as he finished the meeting, which would have been logical if it was a genuine work thing that overran.

Or cook you a meal or made posh coffees and snacks and actually welcomed and properly "hosted" you and it was just you basically hanging around next date will be glass of tap water then sex).

OP, I don't like to patronise you, you're new to this and learning how things are. More experienced posters can't rush you, that's fine. But please don't take risks again as in going to a man's house against your inclination.

And of course, if it feels right on a first date, go for it, I'm not suggesting all men are murderers or anything but you went against your instincts here and why?

What are these good qualities? Intelligence, can hold a social conversation in person and a good job? This guy has been pushy and focussed upon his own convenience and you don't really fancy him. It's not about you blowing it, it wasn't really there.

I'd suggest you keep looking rather than trying to make this all seem full of possibility when to be honest it doesn't sound at all like the start of a great romance because honestly? I don't think he's looking for one.

If you want to give someone the benefit of the doubt after suggesting something you're not comfortable with, get confident at saying 'no' on the spot. So 'no that's ok, I won't come up but it's not problem you're running late. I'm happy to get a drink and wait a bit'. Or 'cocktails sound lovely but no, I'd much prefer to meet half way for a first date'.

You freaked out because you felt weird and uncomfortable, because you knew that you were in a position you shouldn't have been in, not because of baggage.

If you had an 18 year old daughter that was OLD and she was being lured in by some dial a shag loser what would you advise her to do?

Do that.

He's now aware that you will deliver yourself like a convenience and accept bare minimum effort, and it will go downhill from here. Protect yourself, get some self respect and boundaries in place before you end up in a position you'll regret.

Saying you're 'staying with family' isn't code for 'don't call me '. Is it?

Why does staying with family mean you can't respond to messages?

It definitely should have been taken as such when then hadn't met and weren't in the habit of calling randomly. Why would you want some stranger from Tinder on the phone taking up time earmarked for family?

In this case you would usually agree on calls if at all, not just ring.

She said she was less available and he kept pushing on trying to get her attention. For all he knew it could be a family emergency she hadn't wanted to talk about.

"You don't know me" is code for "don't call me"

I'd hazard OP is also a millennial. I'll literally watch my phone ring as my husband calls me, and I don't pick up.

Calling is frigging weird.

I agree. This one definitely got ‘it’s all about me’ red flags flying.

OP - you’ve said you don’t find him attractive, he’s already messing with your head - you don’t need to give him a chance against your better judgment. Your guy is talking to you - listen

Actually a really good way to spot narcissists and similar is when they know you're really busy with something else, focused on something else etc, they increase contact attempts. Because they can't stand the attention not being on them.

So it tracks that he'd suddenly start calling you when he knows it's a family day.

I am reading the responses - thank you. I may never see this guy again, but I do think I should clarify a few things:

1. We only initially made contact last Tuesday and he told me on Thursday's date that he already had social plans for both Saturday and Sunday, but that he would like to see me on Friday.

2. When I told him I didn't want a late night on Friday (as I work on Saturday) he offered to arrange to work from home in order that we could meet earlier. It was me who said I'd prefer to meet in the afternoon.

3. When I went to his flat I told a friend where I would be and arranged to message him (the friend) after I had been there for an hour.

4. At no point while I was in his flat did he try anything on, apart from kissing. At one point we sat on the sofa and cuddled, and that was as far as it went.

5. After his meeting had finished he did suggest going out for drinks or for food, in fact he offered this twice. However, I felt uncomfortable by then and had decided to leave.

I still have misgivings, and I don't expect this will go anywhere, but I don't think it's fair to paint him as an ogre with an agenda.

Sorry, not sure why formatting has gone crazy.

No, nobody is saying he is a monster necessarily. The point is you weren't comfortable enough to take that risk.

But you're now in a position where you've accepted snogging on the sofa as a date. You clearly weren't up for casual sex, you were hoping for more. So how do you get from his initial reluctance to go out of his way to this to him being keen to show you a bit of respect and a nice time?

You will learn to distinguish these ones. No, they're not necessarily dangerous guys. Nothing terrible happened. But they are sure as anything not on the same page or keen on getting to know you as a prospective partner. They have a totally different mindset to that and you can give them as many chances as you like. There are loads of them about. Great profile, say all the right things but not actually looking for what they say they are. Long term, they probably are, but are very happy to play the field in the meantime. There are loads of genuine men too, better to stop at red flags and move on

Honestly, OP, it's ok to just not fancy someone. Some people on MN have a need to convince you he's a narcissist and a wannabe rapist, and will use your "instinct" as evidence of this and twist your experience to support this. But there really is no need to find a nefarious trait in him to explain why you don't want to take this further. He's not the one for you and that's a perfectly legitimate reason.

Thanks. To be honest I feel so fucked-up about the whole dating process that I don't even know any more whether I fancy him. I thought I did on Thursday. Now I don't have a bloody clue!

It's not atypical of me to panic when I meet someone new.

No, but it's not necessarily an appropriate time for the initial telephone chat with someone you've matched with on a dating website.

And I didn't say I couldn't respond to messages. If I hadn't responded to messages he wouldn't have had my number in order to ring me.

I think he's getting a bit of a hard time here. The initial communication pre-meeting didn't sound great, but seems like the "date zero" all went well. Presumably (considering he didn't try anything on) the reason he invited her to his house next time round was that his meeting overran and he didn't want to leave her hanging around until late. OP says he offered to go out for drinks or food after so this quite clearly wasn't just a case of "oh I can't be arsed to leave the house".

That said, agree with others that if you're not keen you're not keen! - you don't have to see him again but I don't think it's very helpful to condemn every man who might not conform to people's ideal standards of exactly how a date should run.

No, it's really not about condemnation, giving people a hard time or painting all men as rapists (although it is absolutely stupid for PP to suggest that doesn't happen on dates so safety isn't a consideration).

It's about pattern recognition for those that may not be out to do anything awful but aren't looking in earnest for a partner. The communication here was very telling.

Men at this stage broadly seem a bit detached from thinking what would be considerate to you.

Dating can get really fatiguing if you're choosy in the slightest so if you can rule these ones out early rather then giving them endless benefit of the doubt, it saves a lot of time and energy.

You can learn to tell very early if someone has relationship potential or not. Posters are just trying to pass their experience on.

What he is or isn't is not the point. The OP is on an internet forum looking for clarity because her interactions with him have left her feeling unsure of herself, confused, uncomfortable, hassled, weird, and more.

That's what needs the focus, not the amount of miles from his house he's prepared to travel, whether he paid for the cocktails, how much he earns, what time he finishes work, or what his intentions are. If someone makes you feel weird, and uncomfortable, that is the point. You need not look into it further to try and look for reasons he would actually make a good husband. He won't.

The point at which you start to feel the above, is when you listen to yourself, rather than clarify how actually he's not that bad after all and you're going to give it a go. Know thyself.

Well indeed.

Yes, agree the most important thing is to listen to your gut and act accordingly, and that absolutely makes sense. I was just thinking that when you step back and look at it, I'm not sure what this guy did objectively wrong aside from initially not wanting to meet halfway on the first date. Whether or not that would have been enough to put me off I'm not sure... but some of the comments just felt a bit extreme. They had never met - they don't know each other. Plenty of people treat people very differently when they're in a relationship with them to when they're just chatting with a stranger on the internet. I just wouldn't write someone off entirely based on what happened - though of course everyone is free to make their own choices on that kind of thing!