8 years single and miserable

[Telemakus]

I'm a desperately unhappy and lonely man, just venting here really. Ever since my divorce 8 years ago I have been without a partner. In that time I've had 2 dates which were complete non-events. I have tried absolutely everything, from OLD to Meet-Up to asking friends to set me up.

My now 9 year old daughter is even starting to think it weird and I'm now afraid she'll start thinking of me as a loser when she figures out how useless I am. I am clearly uglier than I had ever thought myself to be but as a 45 year old man I seem to have absolutely nothing to offer a woman.

I think lots of people would find it difficult to take a photo of themselves that they’re happy with. Perhaps consider having a friend take some pics? They’ll be able to see if you’re showing tension on your face, help to pose you so you look relaxed etc.
If you’re not comfortable with this, you might think about having professional pics done.

One of the most attractive traits (I think anyway) is positivity. You’re getting some good advice here, but you don’t really seem to be open to it. Therapy can help you with self-esteem, negative feelings and dealing with rejection (which everyone does at one time or another) - a relationship won’t fix those things.

I don't mean to appear closed off to any advice and I agree it is very good, and kind, advice. Where I might seem resistant is only where the advice is not relevant because I already am doing or have tried said thing.

Relaxed and friendly is key with photos!

I'd also advise you to go back on meetup, that woman was a weirdo. Ironically she made herself look ugly.

It sounds like you're going through a tough time. It helps me to remember that value isn't determined by relationship status. Relationships can be complex, and finding the right connection often takes time and sometimes a bit of luck. It might help to focus on what brings you joy and fulfilment outside of dating—pursuing hobbies, personal goals etc.... this can boost self-esteem and also lead to new connections.

I've signed on for a few events this year but always pulled out at the last minute. I just feel a bit foolish now it's been over a year and everyone I know there knows why I left.

I was going to attend a London Pub Meetup that I've been a member of for a few months but they're getting wrecked by train strikes. Anyway, all the single women tend to gravitate towards one or two single men at those things. Seen it a hundred times.

@Telemakus I had my profile reviewed by a fellow MN on the other thread (I recognised your name and comments). I sent screenshots of it to their MN account, would that be helpful?

Also, being frank, I have not seen any ugly men online, just men I’m not attracted to. Some of that has been photos, others it’s what they have written, or lack of it!

I must admit not driving is a biggie for me, as is height as I’m tall’ish’ and I always swipe left if a man mentions a dislike of mushrooms - I love them! 😂

I'm sorry that a woman said you were ugly, that's so unnecessary and unkind of her. To be honest I'm not sure I would recover my mojo after an incident like that so I sympathise. However, you are where you are and as others have said your looks aren't everything. There are a few things that occurred to me. I think online dating clearly isn't your friend. It is focused on looks so may not be for you although you might want to try the suggestions around better images. You have things you love - writing, history, walking. Could you build a social element into these things? Maybe become a volunteer at a historic site or lead walks with a local group. I agree that in the absence of good looks you should focus on getting a good body. Exercise is great for mental health and being fit and a healthy weight will definitely make you more attractive. Finally work on your mindset. You could talk to a life coach or counsellor or just go to a self help section of a bookshop and see what grabs you. I would recommend listening to affirmations (YouTube or Spotify have them) relating to confidence and also practicing gratitude. Good luck op I hope you find someone.

OK if your looks really are deterring women both online and at meet ups, you're going to have to change your approach and let your personality do all the work.

That means putting yourself in situations where you'll keep seeing the same women and getting to know them over time. A sport, hobby, mingling with other parents, work.

I often recommend mixed sports clubs on here - it's a thing people tend to take up again in midlife if they find themselves single, they tend to have functions with a lot of alcohol and other reasons to socialise outside the actual sport, and they foster close friendships and camaraderie.

It sounds like you've had a really rough time, and can understand feeling frustrated, depressed and hurt by that unkind woman's comment too.
However honestly the way you write is very unattractive to me. You come across a little arrogant closed off to most suggestions and the way you write about women is not something that I find attractive either...Its got the slightest hint of incel about it and any whisper of a hint of that is not going to attract you a partner.

It's cheesy but true, if you build a life that makes you really happy outside of having a relationship, you are more likely to find someone. You say you've got loads of free time, volunteering in a way that isn't date focussed ( so not like meet up) could be good. Finding more meaning and purpose outside of relationships will make you more attractive to others.

I would also look into coaching, someone who can give you some honest feedback about how you come across, if you are willing to take this on board.

I work in a busy public environment and through the doors see every kind of couple, and there are lots of shorter, less conventionally attractive men who have lovely partners. Women are generally less focused on looks than men. Women are also not all motivated by paychecks.

Getting someone else to help you take better photos for OLD is a really good suggestion.

I was very anxious about the safety of driving, but learnt to drive. I'll be honest I do think it's a big turn off not to if you're able to as it gives a vibe of someone who will need to be parented.

Are you happy in your basic job, or is there something else you'd like to work towards, it sounds like you have free time to train if you would like to improve this area of your life, havinf a distraction from relationships finding drive to work towards something outside if that whatever it is I think would help.

One tangible thing you can easily change - I'd learn to drive as a starting point as most of the women I know would find it off-putting that you have no intention to. It would show a mismatch with my love of the freedom that driving gives me and with how I like to travel to see places that aren't just cities.

More difficult is the chronic self confidence issues that are coming across. I've been single most of my life and I'm pretty sure it stems from a deep down doubt that I'm likeable (physically and otherwise). My social skills are also slightly lacking and it's something I have to make a huge effort with to reach a level of social ability that comes naturally to most (I suspect I’m neurodivergent).

I think you should get back out to the meet-up club again. You stand more of a chance meeting people that way. Nobody should call anyone ugly-that was an awful thing for her to say.
You can’t be too unattractive to women as you already have a daughter.
Personally, I find not being able to drive slightly off putting, but your hobbies sound interesting.

If I’m being honest not driving would put me off so I really think you should learn. I’m not a natural driver either and was really anxious about it but I eventually learnt in an automatic and touch wood but never had an accident.

So I'm going to come in with the more harsh approach here as you need truths. Things you've already said that I find off putting

Looks - what do you mean ugly? There are men in spades on OLD that aren't naturally good looking but you need to fake it til you make it pal. Do you have some cash to burn? Things that make me swipe no:

balding - if you are there are loads of really natural looking solutions

Teeth - make sure they're all there, straight and white. At least white, this is inexpensive and increases attractiveness by at least 2/10

Weight - no dad bods, make sure you're a healthy weight and a bit ripped, adds at least 2/10. So even just going to the gym and whitening your teeth will take you from a 0 to a 4.

Skin - some self tanning drops in moisturiser will give you a little glow and add 1/10

Pics - I can tell you're posting a bunch of selfies. Get out in the world and get people to take pics of you doing stuff. It's an instant no if a profile is full of selfies and no sign of hanging out with anyone that will take a pic for you. Selfies are never as good either.

Where are you taking the selfies? Toilet pics are a no. Messy room in the background is a no. 1980s decor in the background is a no.

Confidence - you need to build some. Most of the guys OLD that are successful and cocky and brass necked. Again, fake it til you make it. I'm not saying be a dick but you need to appear sure of yourself on your profile.

I'll bet you'd have more luck with some of these tips. It's a tough gig, you need to compete to be noticed. Good luck

I'm so sorry about the comment the lady made at your meet up group, that would also have shaken my confidence.

You say that you've tried online dating in fits and bursts, in my experience if you want it to 'work', for a better word, you need to dedicate time and energy to it; it's a numbers game. That means a total profile overhaul (I would suggest posting your profile on some of the reddit dating groups for people over 30 for advise - I've seen people genuine get really constructive dating advice there). It's probably also going to take a few months of serious swiping to get some decent matches.

However. You face a double edge sword here because if you aren't getting good matches. and the dates fizzle out, which is common on online dating, it's going to confound your believe that you're ugly (which I don't think is true).

I once ran a meetup film club, and no word of a lie I've been to seven weddings from people who met and married through it. I would look at attending meetup's focused on a hobby rather than just a pub meet up. If you're in London the choice is bloody endless!!

Finally, it's not down to a woman to make you happy. Don't forget also that you're setting an example to your daughter, so the way you think and talk about women is important. Whether you mean it or not there is an uncomfortable tone to your writing that suggests you believe that women are only interested in the likes of aesthetics.

Oh and that woman that called you ugly? Fuck her, she's ugly to the core. Nothing wrong with you that a bit of modern beauty technology can't reverse, she's going to be a nasty cow forever. She clearly has low self esteem and using you to feel better. Nasty cow.

I love this response.

Do you have a varied friendship circle?

Also, the thing with online dating, it's evolved, you have to commit and put some effort in, if you're expecting women to make the first move and not initiating then you're knocking your chances straight away.

I went off old in a big way, too many guys behaving in a way they prob wouldn't in real life.
Join a running club, park run, book club, friendship group etc. If you feel a bit depressed etc then Andys men's club have clubs all over the country.
I think you do need to work on your self esteem and confidence. Good luck.

So I’m going to give a different perspective. Not everyone will meet anyone special in their lives. Most people have at least one relationship but that is certainly not everyone, and chances of meeting someone special when you get older is significantly less likely. I know several single people over the age of 40 who just can’t meet anyone special despite doing all the right things and I would say they are all reasonably attractive. A lot of it is luck being in the right place at the right time no matter what anyone says. It’s not like getting a job or selling a house. Maybe it would help if you could make peace with the possibility that you will spend the rest of your life single and work out what you can otherwise do for fulfilment.

If you really do want to meet someone, how much effort are you putting into being the best version of you to women? Dating is competitive so you need to offer something that others don't and remember that having a woman isn't a right, it's something you have to work for. You can't be resigned to being an ugly, non-driver with a mediocre job and still hope to find someone. You might but you are not making it any easier for yourself either.

You need to compensate elsewhere and it has to be instantly noticeable. A lot of women likes confident, successful and funny men for example and it doesn't matter then what you look like or if you can drive but you would need to improve you career. Or you can get a cracking body and spend most of your free-time at the gym and you'll probably meet someone there eventually. There are ways to improve looks, but you need to make the effort and probably throw some money at it.

I’m sorry you feel this way, sounds very lonely.

practically: ask questions, listen. Everyone says they’re good at this but really think about it. Listening goes a long way, not just waiting for your time to talk. (I’m not saying you do this just trying to help!)

Do you have female friends? And are you good at talking to women and listening to what they say to you?

Looks is a major issue in OLD but less so in real life. I know lots of men who are not objectively very attractive but who have a nice partner because of their personality. I wonder if you give off a vibe of unhappiness and lack of confidence?

Driving is also not a big deal if you live in inner London. By basic job, do you mean you have a very low salary? This may limit your appeal just because by mid-40s many women will be on a reasonable professional salary and if you're badly paid that will limit your ability to do fun stuff, even if you're splitting costs equally.

Could you get promoted or move to another sector? You sound intelligent and literate (and LOL at the poster who cast shade on your interest in Wren churches - visiting City churches is exactly the sort of thing my inner London 40-something demographic enjoy doing at the weekend).

Join a book club. Most there will be women, a fair few single.

You probably swipe right above your weight, OP, that’s why you get no matches.

limited empathy from me.

You've had some great advice on this thread, both practical on what you can do to improve your physical appearance and where/how to take photos and offers of help to review your OLD profile etc.

I advise you take it all.

On top of that I would say you sound very defeatist and that's not an attractive trait.

The woman telling you that you are ugly is horrible, but as a woman I have had nasty comments about me and my body from men throughout my life.

From strangers on the street calling me a bitch because I won't engage with them, to men in bars commenting on my breast or bum size, judgements about my clothes size etc.

Whilst neither of us should have to go through that, if women stopped attending work/parties/nightclubs/social events/walking down the street because of nasty comments men said to them, we'd never go anywhere or do anything.

Sometimes you have to shrug off the negativity and still go out and face the world.

Lastly, from what you've said the thing that would put me off is that you're a single dad with a job who has "plenty of time" for dating; why is that? Most engaged single working parents I know are run ragged.

If you spent more time with your daughter, doing the school run, taking her to parties and clubs etc you would interact with a lot more women and they would respect the effort you were putting into your child; that's very attractive.

Looks are really not that important to many women. I have done OLD on and off for years and what was most important to me was not looks but rather an intelligent, witty and funny profile. What is not attractive is poorly written profiles and blurry photos of men in their untidy bathrooms and bedrooms, grim faced, or with the camera somehow directed up their hairy nostrils.
My advice, get a friend or relative (preferably a woman) to take a couple of good pics of you in good lighting. And a nice smile helps (teeth are important!)
Re your daughter, l'm sure she is really not that bothered, and if she asks just reassure her that you want to spend your free time with her and that she is your priority.