Moving out due to child’s behaviour?

[Betteroverhere]

My husband and I have two children. They are very young so I realise this may be jumping the gun but I’m being as honest as I can. My eldest child has a very poor relationship with me and I seem to be a massive trigger for him . He shouts, snatches, openly shows dislike and contempt for me - shouting get off me, get away, those sorts of things. I

I have just reached my peak with it and I’m upstairs in tears.

I think it might be best for everyone if I moved out. Not necessarily forever but I do feel it might be best if I wasn’t here all of the time. Has anyone ever done this?

Is there ever a thread where difficult behaviour isn’t ascribed to ASD? I really, really don’t think he has it.

Hi OP, I’ve just read the whole thread and am sitting here really feeling for you.

Alongside spoiling your your son and being lax with junk food etc, does your DH ever discipline your son? For example, if you’re taking his muddy boots off and he’s kicking you, will your DH swoop in and tell him it’s not acceptable for him to kick anyone? When he shouts at you to get off or takes a swipe at you or generally speaks to you rudely, will DH reprimand him and say we do not treat people like that?

Rather than a DS problem, I think this is a big, BIG DH problem. You should be presenting as a team against DS and any shit behaviour should get a reprimand from DH too. The split between you is feeding the problem because kids will find any crack between their parents to divide and conquer.

Surely if DH loves you and can see your hurt, he can start to do this with you? Spend 2 weeks with your DH as the disciplinarian?

From a discipline point of you, time outs like shutting kids in their room is not effective in impacting behaviour. That isn’t a dig, as it’s a long-used tool that many parents go to, but it’s been extensively proven to not make a difference or to exacerbate the behaviour in the long term. ‘Discipline’ it’s traditional sense is problematic because their is no where for the parent to go other than escalation when the initial discipline doesn’t work, so either the child becomes a angrier, desensitised or the punishment becomes way out of kilter with the transgression. When my twins were very little, I read ‘How To Talk So Little Kids Will Listen’ which is a great resource for challenging behaviour.

Things like adapting your behaviour before a tantrum starts, matching behaviour (have a meltdown with them and name their feelings: I hate taking my muddy boots off!!!! It’s so annoying!!! I wish I could stomp my muddy boots everywhere!!! / Argh, I hate putting the ice cream away!! It makes me so angry because I want ice cream for breakfast every day!!). These things can diffuse a situation before it escalates.

All in all though, your DH needs to be on team parent and not team DS.

Yes, I was going to post again on Monday but I was at work and then I didn’t want to bump the thread in the evening and prompt more suggestions you to the GP or social work! (In my experience, social work will not help - I had to report something which DS disclosed and basically their response was to investigate me and whether I was protecting my child. As part of this interview, they said they would provide me with some resources to help with the behavioural issues DS was having. Eight years later, I am still waiting and DS is thriving because I just found my own way through). GP’s response will be anti-depressants, and I don’t disagree with the poster above that there can be a place for these in situational depression, but I don’t think that is the starting point. Also not sure if you are depressed, or just reacting to the situation which is onerous - and I think possibly strategies to pre-empt or help you plan for these outbursts may help. The main issue is, as you say, you are doing everything yourself.

But as the thread is bumped now, what I did want to say is that I thought the point by codlingmoths on page 13 was a good one - where she says that whenever her DC pushed her away, her DH would model the behaviour that DC should follow (on my phone so cannot cut and paste). You did say that your DH has been under pressure and you don’t want to criticise him, but I do wonder if that could be a way forward to constructively suggest slight tweaks in how he responds to DS when he is pushing you away. Just ask him to get onside and model how DS should behave to you. It might not solve the problem (being three is difficult particularly if your DS struggles also with changes from one situation to the other) but it might help you feel more supported. I mean, I think you feeling more supported is crucial here.

Yes, I had a copy of how to talk so kids will listen as well. But the how to raise a sensory smart child one was the most helpful. And then also I had an app for social stories which modelled behaviours for DS. I would need to check that one - basically it had situations where meltdowns might occur and was about how young kids dealt with them.
But I also realised that sometimes it did not matter what I did, if DS was going to have a meltdown, he would have one! Usually because he was over-stimulated (by noisy environments, that was a trigger), or not stimulated enough (he needs sensory input) - so if I gave into what he was demanding, there would be another demand and another and I was just putting off the inevitable. At home, the way to calm him down was ear defenders and weighted blanket over him. Or if we were in a public place, find a quiet space and just hold him till he calmed down. And mostly just letting him, where possible, meet his own sensory needs, which was easier as he got older.

But the bigger point is that you know your DS, being his main carer, and you will know what works and it would be helpful if you and DH could both discuss this and be on the same page.

Thanks @Talulahalula

@Didimum look, that was a very lecturing post. I realise that wasn’t the intention but all children and situations are different. How to talk how little kids will listen is just useless for DS. It suggested asking a three year old ‘what do you like about a programme’ when he was angry he missed it. And actually some children do need a bit of time to cool down. When DS is angry you either wait for him to calm down with him and this massively contributes to anger or you put him somewhere safe. It’s two minutes behind a stair gate, it’s hardly count of monte cristo. DS went through a stage of kicking out when I was heavily pregnant and yes, it was and is one of my absolute no nos, do not do that, no. It stopped but then happened again Sunday.

DH is a massive problem at the moment and I don’t really know what if anything I can do about it. He revealed yesterday that when he had DS alone he refused to get in a car seat so he had him in the front with a seatbelt. So dangerous and illegal. I have to go somewhere Sunday and am taking the baby with me but was going to leave DS here but I can’t, really. It’s exhausting and relentless.

Does DH accept that his parenting is falling short and is he open to improving or does he defend what he is doing and not see a problem with it?

How I would respond would depend quite a bit on the answer to that question.

I mean, with DS (and indeed DD), I just waited until they would get into the car seat, often up to an hour, or take public transport (which DS loved). Very frustrating but the only thing to do. But you know that. DH should know that. So the question is how he views his lack of safe parenting?

I’ve never known him be difficult about going in the car seat but the answer being to let him sit in the front has really concerned me and I am worried now.

I know I won’t get anywhere talking. Maybe someone needs to publish a book called How To Talk So Husbands Will Listen.

What have you told your husband so far about how you are feeling and how it is effecting your whole well-being?

My post was certainly not meant to come off as a lecture. It's very difficult to gauge what the approaches you try day to day are, how long you do it for, how your son responds .. etc etc ... because at the end of the day, all we are seeing is a 0.5% snippet through a screen. There is no way for me to know if you've ready that book, there's no way for me to know how often you employ time outs or how your DS responds to them, so posters can only respond the the information they are given to piece together the picture. You can disregard or take on board anything you want to.

I’m not really seeking advice on that. It did come across very smug to be honest. Sorry but I may as well be straight as nothing to be gained by evasiveness. I didn’t appreciate it: it was patronising in the extreme.

No, I just don't think you are in the place to withstand any advice – or even much communication at all. Nowhere do you say what you actually want advice on, other than not the GP which I didn't suggest.

The 3yo and baby stage was the worst for me. I was fucking exhausted and stressed and suicidal, and struggled to feel loving or close to my 3-year-old. Their dad was crap at parenting small children, so I was doing it all. My mental health was disintegrating in the toilet like a shit that won't flush, and there were many days when I wondered if we'd end up being a tragic story on the news.

This will sound weird, but for a while I imagined my 3yo wasn't mine, that I was just the childminder, and it was my job to make sure she was taken care of. It got me through that stage. It made me see objectively what she needed and put aside what I needed, and it stopped me feeling hurt.

3-year-olds can be total, brutal, unfiltered dicks. Until it passes, which it does, it's shit. I'm sorry that posting on this site with raw honesty gets you jumped on, because yours is the most honest post I've read about how hard this is.

@Didimum it is Friday. I started the thread on Sunday in a very black place. It wasn’t - and isn’t - as simple as I Want Advice About. Even relatively straightforward issues often intertwine with other things and this isn’t straightforward.

DS is showing a ‘dad’ preference when dad is around which I don’t have a problem with. I do have a problem with the behaviour. DS was foul to me - no one else - on Saturday and then continued it into Sunday cumulating in the muddy boots incident. I actually don’t think what I did was particularly wrong or inadvisable. I put DS in his room for a couple of minutes to calm down and I removed myself from the situation as I recognised I was losing control.

No problems Monday and Tuesday: nursery Wednesday and Thursday, today DH wfh and here we go again. But it’s a relationship issue more than anything else. I was up half the night with the baby, DH kindly took both children at half 6 so I could sleep in a bit, but then I come down at 8, DS still in the piss wet pull up (he wears them at night) no one’s had breakfast, the lounge is a tip. And I realise I’m on my own in this.

@DeathBy1000PipeCleaners i hear all that. I’ve done similar but it’s so hard as it’s only when DH is around usually. I’m dreading the weekend I’m somehow going to have to manage various hobbies, sort the house as it really is a mess, food, laundry, see this relative. It’s so hard when you don’t feel like you’re in a team at all.

My heart honestly does go out to you, OP. Please see that me typing in black and white text does not convey the feeling it intends – I'm NOT saying you did anything wrong or inadvisable (truly). I was simply throwing out some things that helped when my twins were being little shits at that age. We've been through ASD concerns for one, ADHD for another, three school moves, my son having play therapy for behaviour after a sudden bereavement of someone close to him, and both also have a strong dad preference ... I am just putting out the things that helped us in case 1) you had not tried them or 2) you were trying things but finding them ineffective. I don't feel smug about any of my parenting – most mornings I'm on the cusp of a stroke because they still won't listen to me or put their shoes on or brush their teeth, but were are out of trenches of toddlerhood and maternity leave (during which I had to call my DH at work and demand he come home immediately because I was loosing control and needed to step away from them). Trust me, I do not claim to have the answers, but some things I suggested just alleviated portions of the day – and I have no way of knowing how you feel about those things.

Best of luck with having a productive convo with your DH.

Then I am sorry as I evidently read the tone wrong

I do pick up a couple of useful tips from books and online but a lot of them do work on the assumption that your child can talk to you about their behaviour and indeed know themselves. I don’t think they do at three. DS can be very wilfully defiant - he isn’t always but he can be and I bear the brunt of it.

I know three year olds can be absolute shits: one of my friends had a horrendous flight back from abroad with her DD recently where she wouldn’t stop kicking the seat in front and absolutely nothing was working - but I suppose this is the issue, it wasn’t as personal and DS behaviour can feel personal.

is there’s any admins who can step in here? This is deeply worrying and I think the OP is having a MH crisis and someone in her real life needs contacted before something terrible happens

MN have addressed OP on a previous page, which I'm sure she read. MN can't contact someone in OPs life.

Did you go to the Sistine chapel a few years ago, perchance?

Well, if someone had published that book, I might have managed to retain a husband!

[edited to add: a flippant response, sorry. I appreciate ditching the husband is not on the agenda and you need to get through this. You are effectively a single parent but without the space to just get on with it and with people thinking you are in a couple therefore have support).

What is a bit worrying are the number of posters turning up at such a late point in the thread. It is very strange.

It’s why I was reluctant to bump it.
I don’t think MN is always as supportive as it could be and it has changed a lot in recent years in my opinion, people used to get much more the kind of situation you are describing whereas now people seem much more likely to just want to put the boot it.

Hey @Betteroverhere it sounds like your week was much better than last weekend.

But I hear your dread of the forthcoming one.

It sounds like you're in a slightly better position than last week, in that you have identified where the issue might be stemming from. Rome wasn't built in a day, but I hope you can get some relief from recognising that your DH is fuelling/failing to tackle this issue, even if there isn't a quick fix.

Wishing you the best weekend that you can have and sending care and strength - remember that you are a good and loving mum in diffucult circumstances and, I know it's a cliche, be kind to yourself.

The weekend is coming, but so is Monday!

You sound so broken OP, I've read all your posts and it sounds beyond awful for you.

Is there any way that you could get away for a week, or even a few days? Could the 3 yo stay with family or friend if dh can't take leave from work and you take the baby?

I'm sorry things are so tough OP, it's very hard doing everything alone - in many ways worse than if you were a lone parent as then at least Dad wouldn't be messing with DH's head/discipline. How does DH feel about your stress levels, does he recognise his contribution to it? Does he try to do better but just fail or does he just not bother? Perhaps simple rules for DH might work - never, ever give in on a safety issue like a car seat, hold boundaries especially when they are tantruming, be flexible where it won't cause any harm or breach boundaries to do so. Also if you can I'd definitely do as others have suggested and try to get away so he realises how much you do and DS sees a different side to everything. Even just for one night.

Have you tried crying to DH telling him this is breaking you, he (DH) is breaking you and turning your son against you with his constant lack of support and lack of proper discipline of any kind. That you don't want the same thing to happen with your daughter (different kids may respond differently so not a given, but a possibility) and he's driving your mental health and relationship with your son down the toilet.

I would cry and cry and see what he says. That it's not innocent or inconsequential or ok that he just undermines you like this and that DH is driving you to utter depression and it can't go in.

What does he say if you tell him this is directly his fault and you can't take it anymore?