Moving out due to child’s behaviour?

[Betteroverhere]

My husband and I have two children. They are very young so I realise this may be jumping the gun but I’m being as honest as I can. My eldest child has a very poor relationship with me and I seem to be a massive trigger for him . He shouts, snatches, openly shows dislike and contempt for me - shouting get off me, get away, those sorts of things. I

I have just reached my peak with it and I’m upstairs in tears.

I think it might be best for everyone if I moved out. Not necessarily forever but I do feel it might be best if I wasn’t here all of the time. Has anyone ever done this?

but how is DS when it is just you? I mean, when your DH is at work?

I need to leave the thread just now, but I do hope that you stop being so hard on yourself. All the things you say, it sounds like you are doing the actual parenting, and I think you and DH need to be on the same page with boundaries and discipline. It’s easy for DH to be the one who says yes to extra ice cream or treats and then of course DS wants him (he is three). How much of when you say you want to just leave them to it is - well, DH can actually do some parenting for a change too??

What does your DH say to the situation and how to fix it? (And do you have shared finances? Why are you left with only £12.96).

Honestly, be gentle on yourself and hopefully you have a friend you can talk to in real life. DS didn’t sleep through, woke up at 5am etc and then you have a new baby into the mix. I am sending you a virtual hug and I hope that there are smoother times ahead for you.

The problem is I don’t want medication and I don’t want counselling so I’m not sure what mental health service could do!

I agree with this. You DH is the problem here. Your DS’ behaviour is the result of your DHs actions.

your 3 year old does not hate you. He wants to be with his dad because his dad gives him anything he wants. So you either:

1. start acting like dad and become Disney mum
2. speak to DH and demand change from him
3. leave DH
4. carry on as you are but nothing will change

Op you don't want to get help so how do you see this situation changing? If you came across this thread what would you be writing?

It actually does sound like a nightmare. I have never experienced anything like what you are going through. I've never known anyone to experience what you are going through.

I'm only going to say what comes across and that is .... Something needs to change. Maybe that's why you've come on here, knowing how the responses were likely to go with your honest, raw and quite frightening posts.

It is frightening for those of us who haven't experienced this. The idea that your 3 year old child hates you, that you don't even think of him by name and that you have to stop yourself from hurting him. This is all terrible. Just as you've said yourself... You are in a terrible terrible place.

Something has to change. I suppose my question is .. What? You don't want to see the GP ..I get it. You don't want to speak to your husband... Reason being .. He won't properly listen? He won't do anything? That is pretty cray cray tbh and I don't mean you....I mean him... That's a bonkers reaction if that's what he'd say to you expressing what you've expressed on here tonight.

So what then? It can't possibly go on like this...i get that you are sure you won't harm him.... But if things are not going to get better then who knows how much further things will deteriorate.

It sounds like there are quite a few who have had similar experiences who have then gone on to have neuro diagnosis.... The only way this can happen is through your GP and it will be forever and you will have to push for it and it's another unpleasant shit thing to add to all your stress so I'd be getting dh to take this on... Or maybe there's a sister or a bf. But this has to be done. It is a must.

You are so low and in such a dark place that you aren't seeing things rationally and of course you aren't ffs.... It's all horrendous.... But honestly...3 year olds don't hate their mum's, they are communicating something but it really isn't hate. You actually sound like you are a pretty great mum... Certainly when it comes to all the practical requirements but emotionally?? Maybe not so much. Without being a therapist... How were things in your own childhood?

Well I have said a few times it won’t change, haven’t I? I don’t mean that aggressively but it kind of sounds like you’re gearing up to having a go at me for not taking helpful advice.

i do believe my relationship with DS is damaged and I do think it’s possible that’s gone beyond the point of repair.

I know DH will not change

I know leaving is not the answer

So we are stuck with it.

No one's gearing up to do anything. Look at your situation objectively and think what you would advise another mumsnetter in your shoes.

Alright, then crack on? You won't take advice. You won't get help. You're back pedalling on some fairly heavy duty statements you made early on.

You either need specific help, probably with social services to safeguard your child because he's genuinely at risk from you snapping and hurting him, or you're having an evening of being grumpy and need to pull yourself together and get on with it. Pick a side I suppose.

Do you not think it is possible that in the three hours or so since I’ve started this thread I’ve calmed down a bit?

But yeah I’ll crack on all right. I fucking have to, don’t I? If it was up to me I’d be hanging from the staircase by now.

just quickly, I think DC grow up and get their own view of the world. And your DS is just little so it is a case of getting through, venting with trusted friends if you need to, and trying to get a break when he is at nursery - and soon he will be in school and you take it from there. And I am also a great believer of things coming clearer in time, and right now, you don’t see how they will get better or clearer and it seems like things will not change. Time moves you to a new place and a new perspective. That’s not very helpful, I know, but it is what I always try to think.

This thread has a horrible vibe

I hope so but it does feel time makes things worse rather than better and I feel that by the time he starts school I’ll have lost him altogether.

I am calmer now. I’m not feeling that rage I was earlier. But I am very very sad.

I am not asking for anyone’s solutions. It doesn’t matter if you think I should tell my GP, social services, HV, whoever, it won’t change things, it is how it is. Losing your child when they are there in front of you is horrible.

Well, that was helpful.

But that's the thing, it can and it will change. It won't stay the same. It can either change positively or you can keep going down this terrible terrible hole. Something has to change. It's really up to you where it goes from here. You are not a helpless bystander.

I really don’t see it changing. He is unlikely to suddenly change sides and decide I’m not so bad after all. In some horrible ways the best outcome I can hope for is he stays close to his dad and the baby is close to me. It isn’t what I wanted or envisioned in many way. But hopefully he’ll realise I did try even if he never really likes me much.

It took time for things to change for us, there was no particular answer or action. I think some things just need the time to work themselves out.

Having children can be a lot of slog with occasional glimmers of loveliness!

When I said not doing anything about it for a bit, and just kind of plodding through your loving care, I didn't mean to not keep boundaries about things like eating wrong things, taking muddy shoes off etc, as you're right, you will be negatively impacted by the natural consequences of letting things slide. I'd just try to be neutral and firm, and have some consequences for non compliance worked out. Keep all the emotion out of it if you can.

You and your DH will likely have many difficult conversations over time about how one person's actions undermine the others parenting etc - again, this is totally normal. Parenting, particularly little ones is extremely trying and can put loads of stress on your marriage. Some people are fortunate to have a reasonably easy ride, but many do not.

I'm glad you're feeling a bit calmer.

You don't see it changing because you aren't willing to take the actions necessary to make changes. You've been going along trying all the normal things hoping things will improve and tonight you've realised that it's not going to improve without outside help... That's why you've reached out... You are looking for outside help.

The posters who you've been angry with are just concerned and that's because you're situation is concerning.

This a very very complex situation which requires expert help and input and either you, your husband or your mum/sister/bff has to start looking for help.

I remember feeling that way when my DS was three as well. I felt so angry and unsupported. I too was convinced our relationship would always be terrible and that is a terrifying feeling. So I understand where you are at.

It did not last.

He is 18 now and a dream. It’s like he does not remember the difficult early years. He cooks for me, cleans, we go on walks together and banter. I actually feel closer to him than I do to the other dream child, who became a difficult teenager ironically. It’s her I have to work hard with now,

One thing I found helped was to pretend I had resigned from being his mother and was now his paid carer working for the council. It made me professionally detached haha! So I would focus on the basics of meeting his needs food, sleep, bath and story. And that was it. And I didn’t have to have the Hallmark, Disney relationship between mother and son. It’s such an unrealistic and high expectation.

As it turned out our relationship improved massively as he got older. You need time. I understand you are in the pit of despair.

You also need time off like a paid worker and that means insisting to DH that he starts taking DS out a lot more. Swimming lessons, story time, kicking a ball around in the park - anything! It means if your son gets some positive attention and you get space, it leaves room for you to get on better in a few years time.

I think that if you are in a situation where you are having to stop yourself really hurting him, and you aren't even thinking about him by his name, yes - you need to not be around him. This doesn't sound safe or healthy.

I am not saying you should move out, but I think you should stay elsewhere for a bit until you have had some time to reflect and regroup, look into some therapy and ideally seek some parenting advice to have some healthy strategies in place.

You sound like you're at the end of your tether and not thinking of him by his name is a big alarm bell for me that you need some space, some proper proper support and intervention.

OP, I’ve been in your place before and it is heartbreaking. 2 years ago, after my 2nd daughter was born, my first daughter ( 3 year old) seemed to absolutely loathe me. I also had PND (didn’t realise how severe until I look back at it now) which exacerbated my emotions around how our relationship had deteriorated from her wanting me all the time to her being all about her father. She never wanted me around, always would push me away and I took it pretty badly and was an emotional wreck.

But with a lot of support (husband, parents and in laws) and patience, I persevered with her. I tried not to push her to get back to how we were before her sister came along but instead just tried to just focus on what she wanted at that moment (she mostly wanted her dad but had to put up with me when he was at work) and spend time with her (on her terms). It took almost 18 months to get our relationship back to what it was - she adores her father but is almost equally happy to see me and hug me and cuddle.

What I’m trying to say (in a rambling way!) is that give it time and patience. Your son’s life has been turned around and he’s only 3 - his emotions are developing and he can be overwhelmed by the intensity of them. If we struggle with emotions (granted, hormones are a bitch!), he would have a much greater struggle at managing emotions and he seems to be lashing out in his ‘safe space’. Look for help for yourself, look after yourself and talk to people about what you’re going through - if you try and get yourself into a place where you can cope better with your emotions, you’ll have the emotional energy to cope with your son. Give it time and patience - and be kind to yourself.

PND is horrible - I’m a healthcare professional and even I was in denial about how severe it was for me despite knowing all the signs and advising other women about it! Please please please look after yourself. That way, you can be there for your son.

Your pain is palpable. I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. @Talulahalula is right; she says very eloquently that “time moves you to a new place and a new perspective”. But it must be hard to hold onto that when you’re stuck dealing with the here and now.

How much is your DH aware of all of this and of
how you’re feeling? Because he needs to be doing his share of stopping the unpleasant comments and the behaviour, even if he’s just firmly saying “don’t speak to Mummy like that - it’s very rude and unkind”. Your DS needs to be told - in an age appropriate way - what impact he is having.

Things will change. That’s a certainty with kids; nothing stays the same. Hold onto that and be as kind to yourself as you can in the meantime.

I also feel it's worth pointing out that if you don't want mental health support, or help from GP or social services for him or you, you're not really giving yourself much of a chance to improve matters. Whether or not you think the relationship is damaged beyond repair, you basically have the option to accept further damage will happen or actively seek change.

Respectfully, you've said yourself that you have not experienced what the OP is describing. Hectoring her to take some sort of decisive action, and this has not just been you by any means, on a Sunday night after the weekend she has had, really isn't going to help her to feel calmer.

As the OP is intelligent and articulate, and knows all about the services that she could approach if she chooses to. But at this time of night, she is hurting in a very profound way and needs compassion and acceptance more than anything right now.

She can take whatever action she wishes without having to commit to doing anything right now to other posters.

I see you and I hear your frustration, you clearly need to vent, as you sound at your wits end.

Can I ask if it has always been a difficult relationship or did it change when baby came along.

I ask this as, any health worker will tell you that toddlers haven’t fully learned how to control their emotions. When they feel angry, it can come across as fierce anger, and may seem as if it directed at one person specifically and as counter intuitive as this may seem, its because you are their safe place. They are learning to express and regulate their feelings and you are the sounding board. Add into the mix his nose has been pushed out of joint as there is now competition on the scene, it can be very demanding.

My mate is in a similar position, she has just had her 2nd son and son number one keeps asking when he is going home...its sweet and funny to me, but she is at her wits end.

What I am hearing, despite your claims to hate him, is the very opposite. You do what he needs, not wants, as it is in his best interests (no black teeth for him!) and you clearly have his best interests at heart. It also sounds like you know when to walk away, as you are having bad thoughts. Bad thoughts are something most parents have and some act on them, you have sought space away. That's not a bad mum, its a wonderful mum, trying her best, at her wits end and struggling to understand what has gone so wrong.

I maybe projecting here, but sometimes I get so exasperated and down, that I need to blurt out stuff that has been going around in my head, I don't necessarily mean it but I don't know what to do and whilst people listen, they do not hear. You feel you need to walk away not that you want to, you have just run out of ideas?

Are you a stay at home mum, does he go to nursery, do you have anyone to support you and give you some space to get your head around stuff?

I'm sending you big mental hugs x

OP - you've said several times that you think things won't change, that you think the relationship between you and your son might be damaged irreparably. I just wondered why you think this is all so permanent? That doesn't make sense to me. He's 3 and of course he'll change dramatically over the next few years in terms of his brain development, his emotional development, his social development. And also the situation at home will change a lot as his sibling becomes older. In a few years you'll have two boys rather than a baby and a toddler. It's a completely different ball game.
To keep saying nothing will change and the relationship is damaged irreparably sounds very hopeless. It sounds like depression speaking to me. Focus on the fact that things can and most definitely will change.