How much should house guest offer to pay?

[Goldfishonabike]

Just that. We just had house guest for three nights, they’ve never visited the country we now live in before, so we took them out to show them the place, asked them what they’d like to do and took them
to those specific places as well as a few we chose. On all occasions they either paid for themselves and we paid for ourselves or we paid for us all. Not once did they offer to treat us to anything - like standing in a queue for ice cream they ordered for themselves no paid for themselves, on another occasion we ordered for us all and one of them said “do you want me to pay?” Just like that, and because if the way it was phrased I said no no I’ll get it don’t worry. we provided all meals at home, including one take out. They’re a family of five, so it wasn’t a low cost either.
They’re both working and own a home while one of us are unemployed and we are living in rental accommodation.
I would like to be a generous person and generally consider myself as such, but I’ve never experienced anything like this before. Usually when we have house guests, people offer to pay for a meal out or to pay our entrance to touristic places (which we anyways only visit for the visitors benefit) and when we are are house guests we always make sure to get groceries and drinks and if we go out we offer to pay for the meal.
do you think the behavior of this guests is normal? Also, do you think maybe it could be some misunderstanding, as on two occasions they did offer to pay, but to
my mind very half-heartedly aka “do you want me to pay?” And as soon as I said I’ll get it just accept it. Do you think I was too over eager to be generous or is it normal
ti expect the hosts to pay everything?

Unforgivable in my opinion. You're generous enough to host and for them to take advantage in this way is unacceptable.
This has been done to me many times in the past, as well as collecting & delivering from airports and train stations. Downsizing was the best thing we ever did. Unfortunately some people feel entitled and have no scruples whatsoever, but they're always the 1st to refuse any requests for reciprocal invitations.

Doesn't seem to me to be cultural but poor communication and lack of boundaries by OP

Firstly it sounds like you are a lovely host and most of the time it would be normal to expect a thank you gift from guests or paying for a trip out / takeaway or something as a thank you. In this case I think whilst you’ve been great it needs to act as a lesson learnt for the future:

• if your guest offered to pay even half heartedly then simply say “thank you very much that would be lovely”
• if you’re planning days out make it clear how much it’s going to cost each family and that each family pays for their own tickets or suggest you organise / pay for one trip and the other family so the same.
• think about limiting their stay to no more than 2-3 nights. They can travel to another part of the country or maybe you could all get an air bnb somewhere and split the cost.

Maybe also consider whether you want to be friends with these people anymore. It’s ok to cut people out if it’s just not working and that doesn’t mean it never worked. People’s lives change that’s all.

They were pretty cheeky in my opinion. If you decide to host again. I would say - ‘Can’t wait to see you. Food wise shall I make dinner for all on the first day, if you sort out dinner for all on the second day and the third day shall we head out for dinner and can just split the bill?’

All trips / treats out - just pay for yourself. Then you’re only paying for breakfasts for them which is okay. Any offers to pay however phrased ‘Oh that’s kind, thanks very much!’ And then you can treat them back to make it fair 🤷🏼‍♀️

Yabu to have refused the half-hearted offer to pay, but in your situation I’d probably have done the same because I don’t like asking people to do something they clearly don’t want to do. DH says I need to get over that, and in situations like this, he’s right. I don’t think guests should be expected to pay for a visit, but it is good manners to offer to help with the costs of food and the work of prep/clean-up. If the host refuses the offers, then that’s on them, not the guests.

Typically I’d cover my guests. That’s just hosting.

its just polite for them to pay a meal out or tourist attraction. But if you said no problem, rather than ‘oh that would be nice, thank you’ - then I guess it’s on you.

sounds like a cultural misunderstanding.

well I guess it’s hard to tell based on only my side of the story. As someone said was isn’t evident from my explanations are things like body language etc. this experience has unfortunately made me reevaluate our friendship and my opinions of them, and reflect on past experiences with them, such as that when we visited them, we took two taxis to their friends’ place, DH was in one taxi and I in the other and we ended up paying for both taxis. I don’t know how the situation went in DH’s cab, but in the one I was in, we arrived at the destination and the wife said silently for some seconds and made no motions towards paying, it got even a bit uncomfortable as I genuinely wasn’t expecting that she expected me to pay for the trip as they’d been the ones to suggest taxis rather than public transport, but when she sat stock still I felt pressured to offer to pay. For the rest of the (2 day) visit we just spent at theirs, they provided basic meals and a bit of alcohol (I don’t drink so only DH had any), that was it. Whenever I used to go round theirs when our babies were small, I now realize that I never was offered anything more than a cup of tea. On one occasion, the kids were offered some pasta for lunch. I never shied up empty handed, always came with some biscuits, cake or fruits or whatever. When meeting in pubs, the men did rounds, I don’t drink so don’t know how those went.

The sad thing to me is that DC’s are close and would be sad if we cut all contact. And from their subsequent communication it’s clear they had a lovely time and feel our friendship has been strengthened!

in all of this I just don’t get why people would behave like that toward someone you consider your friends and would like to stay friends with. And that’s why I think they may just be a bit entitled in general and self centered, they don’t mean to be stingy or rude they just aren’t very considerate and focus on their own needs and seem to think whatever good comes their way they deserve and don’t need to reciprocate for. This is what the experience has made me feel, so unless they start showing very different behavior in future, I likely will distance myself from them. I don’t think anyone would seriously want to loose a friendship over a couple hundred quid, neither would I, so to me it’s really more what their behavior has received about their nature, than the money itself .

'Do you want me to pay?' is not how to offer to pay. You say 'let me get this, it's the least I can do' and insist on it! I've been on holiday to stay with friends and I would always at least expect to may for a meal, and take gifts for the hosts and kids. Probably buy drinks if we go out, that kind of thing.

I think the only alternative in future is to be more candid upfront, not that it's easy.

Something like 'how do you want to do the food whine you're here? Some guests like to contribute to groceries, some like to pay for some meals out, what suits you best?'

They seem to have been tightwads, entitled and clueless.

They offered to pay for ice creams

Big deal!

They were rude and or thoughtless

In my opinion hosts have the responsibility to set the tone clearly because you know the lay of the land, how much things cost and more importantly how much you can afford to spend. Guests from abroad can't know this.
To me these guests would have been completely normal because I always pay for food, and also meals out if I make a point of deciding the place. I would expect friends to pay for car hire if necessary, tickets and entrance fees to day trips out and would make this clear by saying things like, tickets cost x, let me know if it's something you want to do.

I wouldn't host people if I couldn't feed them because in my mind that's basic hospitality. So for me food goes with the offer to stay. If I didn't wish to offer certain particular things, such as expensive alcohol etc, for whatever reason, I just wouldn't get it out while they were there.

I can understand OP’s perspective. In this situation it’s normal to make it very clear you WANT to pay and I would expect them to say firmly: “now this one is on us” or “ No no I insist!” or something similar to make it almost difficult for OP not to accept - just as OP rushed to the till etc.

That’s normal . You have manners and decency OP, your guests didn’t.

The food whine 🤣

I can’t stand it when people say, “Do you want me to pay?”
To me, it insinuates that it’s an unreasonable “want” and the only answer possible is , “no, there’s no need”. I also say, “I’ll pay for this.” Or “Would £10 cover the petrol?” or “I insist on paying as you’ve been so generous.”

Mmm, when I go to the UK I offer to pay everything as I know it’s their culture but if someone comes to me in the Middle East I would be horrified if they offered to pay even for water. It wouldn’t occur to me that someone would pay in my house. Is it something like that?

We had similar. A family of four stayed with us for ten days and didn’t contribute anything to the shopping for their stay. When we got a takeout one evening they even counted out their meals to the penny rather than offering to get the whole thing given we’d kept them for nearly two weeks! I’d have put it down to being hard up if they hadn’t come home with loads of goodies and presents for themselves every time they went out!! On their next visit to the UK we didn’t offer for them to stay again…

I think you are right OP that it isn’t worth losing a friendship over. It is, however, worth adjusting how you socialise with them and what your expectations/ obligations are, and plump for activities that don’t require any ambiguity around who is paying.

I have a couple of friends I am really fond of and have so many things in common with them. However one thing we don’t have in common is that they are almost pathologically stingy. Each has a different backstory as to why ( as far as I can tell); but I’ve more or less learned it’s really nothing to do with me and not my problem to fix it either by pressuring them into pulling their weight or by being the uber generous (used!) party. Now I make sure if we go to the cinema for example we each pay for our ticket and each pay our own refreshments etc even though with other friends I am far more fluid ( “I’ll grab the tickets, do you want queue for drinks? “ etc). If we go for a meal I either clarify at the start that we are “ going Dutch” or, if that feels awkward, I choose something similar in price, if they don’t want a starter I skip too etc : there are plenty of other opportunities to have a starter. In short I minimise potential for there to be a situation where there is anxiety ( on their part) around the money aspect, because I know they sit there clocking up what I’m ordering terrified I’m going to indulge to a greater extent then try to go halves (I never have; it’s their issue). It’s a shame as I have other friends I can be more relaxed with and it’s a much more chilled dynamic and I’m often more inclined to invite or accept invitations from them as a result. So it really is a “their problem “ thing and I think probably not meant to be insulting. They’re just like that!

We would jump in as guests and say we'll get these etc not wait behind host then suggest grudgingly (it seems) do u want us to pay

10 days or 3 days = VERY different. TBH for 3 days, I'd expect to host fully without contribution from guests.

Conclusion - be clear from the start. And not just with guests, but with your DH- you should agree on what you both expect, or it is a disaster waiting to happen. Take into consideration the length of stay, cultural and financial differences- and don't organise expensive visits or trips for guests unless you ask them first and give them cost- so they have a choice.

I wouldn't expect a host to pay for everything
BUT I have mostly stayed with hosts and had all my food covered and even some trips etc as a person solo and younger staying with people who had good money etc

I think the norm in your scenario is likely that home cooked food is paid by hosts and guests offer to pay for meals / treats out
any trips each family should cover their own costs for unless one offers

generally I would have had a conversation about this before they stayed to avoid awkwardness after

perhaps just chaulk it up to experience and plan ahead next time

This is so definitely on you!

They offered to pay twice and you insisted on paying and the way you did makes it sound like the idea of paying was ridiculous. At what point in the trip was this?

You ordered for the table and got the bill in a foreign language. You didn't turn around to them and say 'your share is £50' or whatever it was you just got your wallet out and paid the bill.

Presumably they've spent a lot of money on a flight over to see you, for a family of 5. If I went to see our friends in Germany I know they would be expecting to host us which means they'd be offended if we offered to shop or similar. They did offer for ice creams. They did pay their probably very expensive entrance fee for a family of 5 into attractions.

And then by you paying for things like meals and similar you're further pushing the idea that you are wanting to host fhem in the traditional sense.

You only have yourself to blame here. If you're that offended then tot up what you spent on them and message them saying 'I forgot to let you know your share foe the trips and meals whilst you were here' with the amount you seem to think they owe.

Honestly, a family of 5 and you're expecting them to also pay for you when they've made the journey over!

Also 'do you want me to pay' is the way to ask if you can pay when you're not wanting to offend someone.

Seems like different people have different manners about this sort of thing. I'm the same in that if I visit someone I'll turn up with gifts, treat them to a takeaway or some sort of acknowledgement that I'm grateful for the hospitality. We have some friends though who will turn up, eat us out of house and home and act affronted if we suggest they might like to chip in for anything.

In that scenario you just order and pay for yourself. Then they can order and pay their own.

Yes, definitely they offered to pay in a very weird way, no doubt about it. It sounded as if they didn't want to pay and that it would be under duress.

Most people would just say something along the lines of 'let me pay this...it's the least we could do', or similar.

And even if you did decline, it would only be polite to offer again and again, especially as they didn't offer to cook, or split the food bill in the supermarket.

They were very rude, OP!

It was so lovely to see you. We had such a great time. Just looking at flights and …..

I’d be booking in a visit to them ASAP. Good for the goose ….

CFers!