How much should house guest offer to pay?

[Goldfishonabike]

Just that. We just had house guest for three nights, they’ve never visited the country we now live in before, so we took them out to show them the place, asked them what they’d like to do and took them
to those specific places as well as a few we chose. On all occasions they either paid for themselves and we paid for ourselves or we paid for us all. Not once did they offer to treat us to anything - like standing in a queue for ice cream they ordered for themselves no paid for themselves, on another occasion we ordered for us all and one of them said “do you want me to pay?” Just like that, and because if the way it was phrased I said no no I’ll get it don’t worry. we provided all meals at home, including one take out. They’re a family of five, so it wasn’t a low cost either.
They’re both working and own a home while one of us are unemployed and we are living in rental accommodation.
I would like to be a generous person and generally consider myself as such, but I’ve never experienced anything like this before. Usually when we have house guests, people offer to pay for a meal out or to pay our entrance to touristic places (which we anyways only visit for the visitors benefit) and when we are are house guests we always make sure to get groceries and drinks and if we go out we offer to pay for the meal.
do you think the behavior of this guests is normal? Also, do you think maybe it could be some misunderstanding, as on two occasions they did offer to pay, but to
my mind very half-heartedly aka “do you want me to pay?” And as soon as I said I’ll get it just accept it. Do you think I was too over eager to be generous or is it normal
ti expect the hosts to pay everything?

I agree it's weird and rude, OP.

I treat my own parents more than that when I stay with them.

You need to be clear and more assertive. Hanging back and waiting isn't working here. Next time there's a grocery run, ask one of them to go with husband to pay half the bill, or to send it via an app. When you're queuing up, order your own and pay, then order for them then tell them to pay. As long as you say it all nicely, they can't say no. If you don't want to go to the tourist attractions, just drop them off and pick up at a set time. Try it and let us know how you get on.

I'd just have said at the end of the meal or whatever, shall we split that then folks?

But yes they are CFs

agreed, if they really wanted to pay they would’ve just done it. If for some reason they wanted to check you were ‘ok’ with that and not offended somehow, they would’ve phrased it better like, ‘how about i get this one, since you got the last’ or some variation acknowledging that you have paid already. Instead they put the onus on you to tell them that they have to pay. That’s not an offer, that’s doing it begrudgingly since you’ve said i had to.

I’d feel awkward too, in the past i’d care but now i’m at a point where i probably wouldn’t let it slide, with an ‘actually yes, that’s really kind of you’ type thing then add more judging on the reaction like ‘the last outing stretched me more than i realised, the prices of things these days’ or something.

I can get that, it's not a proper offer is it. Of course the right thing to do is say yes thanks but in the moment your mouth has said no before your brain has caught up.

Possible low key approach at first meal/outing could be to say something like. "do you want to take turns paying for meals and outings or do we all just pay for ourselves?" Your DH could still be generous if he wanted and pay for a nice meal out maybe on the last night, but everything else it would be clear from the get go that you expected a fair contribution from them.

Exactly! It’s just an instinctive reaction to a question like that, and what I don’t like about it is it was clear what they wanted me to say and that was no thank you. They revealed themselves phrasing it like that.

I know it from myself too, on a recent occasion (long story) I had to ask a senior person at work if they wanted to move to another (better) seat at an event or not, I really didn’t want them to say yes as I thought I’d be awkward for all involved, but it wasn’t really my call to make, but I went to them and ended up saying “do you want to stay seated or do you want to move?” And obvs the person said I’ll stay seated. If I’d wanted them to move I’d just have said “would you like me to take you to x seat now?” Or something like that. Once I sat down again I realized my blunder, it was my unconscious making me phrase it so they’d stay seated. Same with the “offer” to pay question.

That’s a really good approach, I like that, thank you!

Unfortunately some people are just plain tight, and it’s really not nice when you discover it about friends / family that you are otherwise close to. I had the same unpleasant discovery when some of DH’a family visited last year, we wined and dined them for a whole weekend and then they left without so much as a box of cheap chocolates. In my culture you do not arrive with empty hands and you wrestle someone to the floor to try to get the bill, so I was quite shocked. I am still fond of them but I know I will be on alert if they visit us again, which is not a nice way to be either. My opinion of them changed after that visit, sadly.
I completely agree that “do you want me to pay” is a very mealy-mouthed halfhearted way to offer to pay. Just fecking pay your way. The particular financial situation of either party is irrelevant though, it’s just basic manners to pay your way and to show gratitude to your hosts.

I just wouldn’t agree to a family of 5 staying. But if there is a next time just set out the expectations earlier - along the lines of - to make things clear/falr - why don’t we each sort out food and cook 1 night, and Trips / meals out pay for selves/own kids.

What is this thing at the moment about citing "culture" as a reason for any unpalatable behaviour or behaviour people don't like being blamed on a whole culture (usually British culture in recent posts). It's getting like the "have they got dementia" questions when posters talk about their abusive parents who are in their 80's but have been abusive for the last 5 years, no not dementia they are just awful people.

Trying to get out of paying and sponging is nothing to do with anyone's culture, it's because that person is displaying that behaviour.

The 50-ish Canadian cousin in my pp at one point wanted my late 20s dd to go with him on a pub crawl.
She was willing enough, and paid for the first 2 or 3 rounds - while he just stood by and let her, but I’m pleased to say that after that she said very firmly, ‘Your turn!’

If you’ve invited them to stay, they owe you nothing. It’s polite (expected?) that they bring a gift (wine, flowers) in acknowledgement of your hospitality.

When going out, you should expect to go dutch throughout, unless they offer to pay one night as a thank you (easily navigated by ‘shall we go here? It’s usually £xx per head, is that okay for you or would you prefer to go somewhere cheaper?’; or ‘if we pay for the boat trip tickets, do you want to pay for lunch today?’)

If they offer to pay, you should politely accept as declining may make them feel uncomfortable and they may not offer again.

Culture may be a factor though? My dad is British Asian and tends to expect to pay for everything when my sisters and I come visit, even with kids, and despite him being retired now - we’ve had to circumvent this by insisting we are treating him or by bringing food/wine.

Maybe yes but I’m trying to give them the benefit of the doubt…

I did once find myself in the opposite position, having not offered to pay for something others expected me to pay for, and I can say with full honesty it was cultural differences at play. In fact, that incident is partly why I have been perhaps overly generous ever since, as it was so awful to feel others so disappointed in me and thinking I was tight with money when it was just a cultural difference.

The one thing I do think is an unfortunate personality trait in this situation though is that they didn’t adapt their behavior or address the issue once
it would’ve been abundantly clear that we were being generous.

Jeez that’s mad for an older man to expect a young person to treat them as well!

Yea this is DH as well. He would rather be poor and treat others well than rick and stingy, hence why I love him, but hence also why he/we get taken advantage off. We need to guard our boundaries a bit better I think.

The key word is guest. Guests dont pay to stay with you, and when they offered to pay while out you said no. I dont see why you are moaning to be honest

If you have the space and enjoy their company, why not?

How often do you host families of 5 and pay for everything on outings?

We had a houseguest recently for two nights, we took her out and about on both days, and cooked in the evening.

She turned up with two wonderful cakes from a posh deli near where she lives and a very nice bottle of armagnac. She also paid for the two cafe lunches we had when we were out.

I actually feel she didn't need to be so generous , and just one of these things would have been enough, but I am certainly not complaining.

Unless you are very hard up it's not really the value of what a guest offers as thanks, it's the thought behind it. Your guest sounds very stingy and I would not be inviting them again if I were you.

@Goldfishonabike There is a handy dandy app called Splitwise that's very helpful in these situations. Before friends visit send them the link to download with a cheery 'this makes everything easier, no quibbling at bill time and we just settle up after!' then you can just put in all the things you paid for and split it amongst however many people. My partner has several greedy friends we use this with and it works well. They're otherwise nice, fun people but I refuse to fund their holidays any more, especially after some of them brought their dog which pissed ALL OVER our house as well!

Do you want me to pay?” is an awful way to “offer” to treat someone. You are effectively asking someone to tell you to pay.

I agree with this. We're a family of five. If pigs would fly we'd ever stay in another family's home with them, I'd be bringing gifts and having a conversation on day 1 to offer to do a grocery shop/get everyone a takeaway/pay for the cleaner after our visit - whatever suits the host. And certainly paying at least our own entry to attractions. This is terrible behaviour on her part.

To clarify, they did pay their own entry to attractions. What they didn’t pay was a number (but not all) meals and treats out of the house. For some we paid for all and for some they only paid for themselves and we paid for ourselves. In addition we had takeout due to coming back late after sightseeing and that was also covered by us. We live in an expensive country so treats and meals for that many people comes to quite a bit.

We have had this problem a lot in various forms because we live in a lovely area. We now communicate our rules upfront.

1. visits must last no longer than 4 nights and must straddle the weekend
2. we may not be able to take time off work during their visit, so they will need to make plans to entertain themselves on week days.
3. a cash kitty for food and drink. This is because we have had guests eat and drink us out of house and home and you start to feel resentful when their holiday at your house costs you as much as you would spend going away.
4. sometimes we ask if they would like us to book a table somewhere nice or whether they would like to cook a meal.

I think they pretty much covers it. It certainly makes having guests a lot more pleasant when you know you have put boundaries in place.