Friend always late

[TaraMoon]

I have a friend who I often meet for a dog walk. We live fairly close to each other and tend to meet at a certain spot.
So, for example, we’ll agree to meet at 4pm at the park gate and so often she’ll turn up at 4.10. Not always but mostly. I think it’s getting worse … and I’d just love to know what goes on in the mind of someone who does this? Is it about control, is it disrespect, is it just sheer disorganisation?
She’s a lovely person in every other way but this is so rude and inconsiderate (to my mind), I just don’t understand why she thinks it’s ok to make me stand somewhere for 10 mins.
Yes, I could do this too but somehow I can’t bear to play the same game.
I’m not a confrontational person but last time I said ‘I see you like to keep me waiting’ quite sharply. She looked surprised but didn’t comment.
We’re meeting again this afternoon and already I feel irritated at the thought of her thinking her time is more important than mine!
Are you habitually late meeting people, and if so, do you think it’s fine? Why do you do it?!

Generally work events I attend are time x for time y so I aim for x and will be there before y so it's all good.

There you go, so you've admitted that you CAN do it when it suits you, so it IS disrespectful when you are late for a friend because you've chosen to be.

In future think of all your friend/family meet-ups as '15 mins before Y, for Y time'

Yes but but in this scenario, the friend being kept waiting ten minutes is the one who seems to really care about it, so surely realistically it’s this person, who has the ‘issue’ with the situation, needs to find a way to deal with it?

Exactly like you say, I would never dream of asking someone to cater different food for my requirements. But then why would you expect anyone to suddenly alter the way they prioritise timekeeping to fit with your requirements?

It seems like it’s the people who get very upset about lateness, are the ones being very (and unnecessarily) demanding on their friendships. You expect your friends to suit your requirements and don’t pay them the same courtesy!

I really can't believe that people don't understand the problem with this - agreeing to meet up at a time then turning up late. Every time.
Presumably if you used to meet at 9.15 but then a friend says 'OK you're always 15 mins late so we'll meet at 9.30' you'd then turn up at 9.45?

It's rude.
It's selfish.
It basically says to the other person 'I don't care enough about you or respect you to ensure I turn up on time . My time is of more value than yours so it doesn't matter to me if you're left waiting in the cold, or the meal you've cooked is drying out, or you're left wondering if I'm OK/ had an accident?'
Whatever.
Of course the person left waiting around is the one who cares about it!? WTF?

Seriously, people who think this doesn't matter are seriously deluding themselves! Google 'Why does being late matter' - plenty of explanations across work, home and life examples.

You sound like hard work.

It’s frankly hilarious that the person who is on time is the one perceived to have the problem. People really need to stop thinking about themselves all the time and show some consideration for others.

@Hippyhippybake

I have a friend who because persistently late with it gradually getting worse over a period of time. She was suffering domestic abuse and trying to go through the motions of life. She is in a better position now, but still sometimes extremely late… I care that she’s ok, more than about the time.

We can’t know what’s going on in people’s lives all the time.

It appears the friend in this instance has remedied her lateness, I’d still be interested to know what was causing it as out of character.

100% this. ^ People can be on time if they really WANT to be. And if they are continually late, it shows huge disrespect - and yeah, it shows they think their time is more important than yours! It's arrogant and rude.

They are on time when it suits them, like if they have a plane or train to catch/an important hospital appointment etc. When this is pointed out, they say 'oh but I am putting so much energy into being on time for vital and important things, that I am too exhausted to be on time for my friends.' LOL, yeah right. Pull the other one, it's got bells on!

If she's a lovely person in every other way then this is not about disrespect or power.. she's probably just a disorganised person without a good concept of time. Not everyone finds this easy. Some people really struggle with time management and it's not about other people it's about them.
I'd just tell her a time that is 10 mins earlier than you really mean.. or not set off yourself until u know she has

So I've been thinking about this. I'm late quite often but not always.. My friends can be the same. I just assume they've had a bit of a nightmare or whatever so don't consider their lateness as a description of how they feel about me. I just assume .. Well... If they could have been on time they would have. Can't get annoyed about it. If they were late all of the time then I'd just accept that they were late people and I'd adjust my expectations accordingly.

Surely all normal people make allowances for friends who are going through a difficult or traumatic situation but that is completely different than being habitually late for no reason.

I'm coming across as uncompromising @SensationalSusie ?

I haven't forgotten your list of, shall we say, uncompromising adjectives for punctual people upthread. You may say it was humorous, or whatever, but it was actually full of contempt! You made out that anyone who felt timekeeping was important was an anally retentive bore.

And what do you mean I have called everyone 'ridiculous' who doesn't agree with me? I have said a few times now that I can appreciate time blindness must exist and there are people who have conditions. Most people, including those who are habitually late, have given me friendly answers and I have thanked them for their input.

The only people I have disagreed with on this thread are those who seem to be suggesting that EVERY incidence of lateness must be down to a condition like ADHD or something similar. That doesn't make sense. It's clear that many people don't see being late as a big deal (and you've said as much yourself), so why you are so determined to diagnose my friend with a 'condition' or hidden trauma is beyond me.

You may as well say that the person waiting must have a 'condition' too that means they get upset when people are late.

In fact, why aren't you saying that? Why is your argument so lopsided that the latecomer doesn't owe the other person anything, but the waiting person has to bend over backwards to accommodate every possible scenario.

And by the way, I'm talking about habitual lateness. No one is suggesting that being occasionally late is a big deal.

Read somewhere that confident people are late as they know that others will wait! I'm always early 😉

@TaraMoon - what I would do in your situation is agree to meet at 4pm and if she isn't there at 4pm, start the walk without her. She'll be pretty quick to phone you when she's left waiting from whatever time she does show up at, and you say "You weren't at the meeting point at 4pm when we both agreed to meet up so I started the walk without you. If you're quick you might be able to catch up with me at Y point where I'll wait for you for 5 minutes there."
See if that might work.

@TaraMoon That seems to be the way of the world these days, we are all supposed to bend over backwards to make allowances / accommodate people who lack basic courtesy towards others.

I’m fascinated to read that some people seem happy to just sit and wait without any messaging in the hope that whomever they’re meeting will eventually turn up. How long do you wait for?! Are you not too busy to waste time just sitting and waiting somewhere?

Gosh I honestly think you sound like much harder work!

I would never dream of telling anyone they sounded like hard work (unless they said it to me first of course..) How rude!

and of course you shouldn’t tell a late friend ‘oh you’re always late so let’s meet 15 minutes later’ that would obviously be a very silly thing to say. Just use your knowledge of them to know they’ll be late, and come a bit later yourself.

imagine all the stress you could save yourself by not being kept waiting! The power is in your hands!

I think possibly the answer is that late people shouldn’t really be friends with punctual people. All my friends are late people. We say we’ll meet at 7 and all show up at about 7.15. It’s just not a problem unless you make it one.

@Lorralorr You always manage to be 15 minutes late? So actually you don’t have a problem with timekeeping, it’s something else.

All my friends are late people.

Gosh, who would have guessed?! 🤣

And all my friends are good timekeepers, so maybe we all just self-select those with whom we share the same values after all…

Or maybe they’re not actually all late people, they just turn up late for people who they know are going to be late as like most people, they don’t enjoy being kept waiting!

@TaraMoon

Your friend’s been 10 mins late a few times and you’ve decided to create an in-depth thread on mumsnet about it.

Haven’t you got better things to be doing with your time?

I don’t get what the point of getting this upset about it is. It’s a friend, not an employee.

That’s my take on it, that it isn’t worth being snappy and I’d resolve it in a different way.

There’s being punctual generally and then there is completely inflexible, intolerant and unpleasant to a friend. 🤷‍♀️

I feel for your family member. That is how I was before meds. I'm unlearning it. The other day I went for an 8am walk with a friend before a 9.30 meeting and felt invincible!

Amazing! I’m also on list for assessment, can feel things coming to a head in work now I’ve reached the 18 month mark, usually leave at this point for something else as it’s too repetitive now and I can’t concentrate but trying to keep going 🥴 It’s a 30 month waiting list though!

This issue has become a big problem with a good friend of mine in recent years.

She will ask to meet for lunch at 1pm at a cafe and think nothing of turning up half an hour late even though she knows I will be there at the agreed time. She then expects me to stay for an hour ( from the time she shows up) while she has lunch. We're both equally busy. Last week she was 45 minutes late. I was visibly annoyed. I'm at the point of not meeting for lunch with her now. It just shows a total lack of respect for my time. This same friend has no issue with timekeeping for work meetings etc. She is a lovely person except for this one flaw. It's such a shame. 🙄

@daisybelle84

That is totally inconsiderate and a genuine issue. Virtually you are meeting for an hour and she isn’t turning up until 30-40 mins in and you both have work to fit around this or other commitments in the day.

I think my not comprehending OP’s issue is maybe in how I’m visualising it.

If it’s a dog walk it’s probably in the evening once the day is done or at weekend when plans are more relaxed. The meeting point is between their homes and she knows where the friend lives so why not walk towards her house if waiting (could text friend to tell her this)….. if friend is ten minutes behind by the time she walks 5 minutes towards her they will be walking together 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️ just don’t get it.

ie there is no need to be standing like a plum in the cold with an upset dog.

Definitely, it’s not a problem till you make it one

@SensationalSusie
If you look at my original post, I wasn’t looking for solutions but insights. I don’t see her lateness as my problem to solve to be fair!
We usually take time out of our working days to meet when the kids are still at school, and yes, my time is valuable. I have work deadlines to meet and I’m often a bit pushed for time.
I have tried various things, I don’t really want to start walking up her busy road, though I’ve ended up waiting at her door on a few occasions while she clearly scrabbled around getting her shoes on etc as she hadn’t even started getting ready!
Then I suggested she walk by my place so I’m not hanging around outside … and she got even later. I find it hard to get stuck into my work when I know I'm about to go out, so yes, it wastes my time.
Anyway, my initial post was just a casual wondering why some people think it’s ok to do this, not a major deal in the scheme of things and I’m not as upset as you seem to think.
I find it irritating and odd behaviour in someone who is considerate in other ways.