March 2024 - But we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

@rollerbutterfly all of this is completely in your control to stop. I know you don't think so, none of us do until we just go NC.
Lodge a complaint of harassment with the police which is to be referenced to your address and phone number.
Same with ambulance service.
Then block parents, siblings and extended family.
Just do it, it honestly cannot be any worse than what you are experiencing.
My mother called the police a few times when I wouldn't take her calls. They had a strong word with her. She also had form for calling Dr, ambulance, police etc when she needed attention, pretending she had fallen, injured and couldn't get up, all nonsense.
You need to stop playing their game, you are actively playing and enmeshed. They love the drama and you are feeding them.
They are not worried at all about you, this is about control not concern.
I strongly suggest you do the freedom program https://www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/online.php
Also find a local groups/meetings to attend for abuse, domestic violence, eating disorder, it will give you support in real life. Years ago I went to al anon and adult child of alcoholics.
You need to put in as much work going NC as they are putting in bullying you.

@rollerbutterfly your posts are heartbreaking to read because your distress is palpable but @binkie163 is right you have to take back your control. Change your number if you need to but you have to fully go no contact. They are trying to pull you in and trying to make a drama. No they really dont give a shit abut your life what they want is to give her the information she craves so she can tell everyone she tried her best as your mother. It is always going to be about HER.
Thats the stark reality.

My biggest regret is responding. It is so hard not to. The drama in your life is there because they cause it. They need it. They need you to feel you have nobody but them, well your mother, so they can walk away from her.

I had to go no contact with my mother last year and even now I am on a daily or weekly basis realising how harmful she has been in my life. It is so hard to comprehend but memories keep coming back. There was a time years ago my marriage ended. I refused to allow my ex husband treat me the way he had. My family took his side. The week after I ended things we were out in a pub as family were here from abroad and I will never forget my sister actually saying the words (they had been putting me down because of my 'failed marriage' completely glossing over the reasons why it failed of course) and when someone asked my sister a question she responded openly 'ah thats what we do, we meet up and take the piss out of 'genuine' cos shes a failure and its great and she laughed. These are things I glossed over at the time but are hurting me now I think of it because I was always the scapegoat. I am the one out of us all that has done the best in life but still the lies are there, the put downs. If I do something well they minimise it, if I do something bad they exacerbate it but it is all because they dont want to bring attention to themselves in case she turns on one of them instead.

It is hard being the scapegoat. But we can remove ourselves. You have everyone on this thread to talk to nd one of us will always be around but please talk to one of us and not them. I am only saying this now its been what 7 months since all this kicked off for me for the final time but every day I get stronger.

Two things I have learned that have been invaluable - silence is the best answer to these people and their flying monkeys. It is hard but no response is the best response.
Be calm. Answer calm. They do not see your emotion they way normal people do. If you are happy its drama, if you are sad its drama, if you are crying its drama. Show no emotion. Nothing. It is what they feed off. They are like maggots. The more you show them of what it is like to be a normal feeling human being which you are, the more they suck it up and turn into huge big flies on it all. Sadly this is their fuel.

@rollerbutterfly keep trying to phone those abuse lines again. You can also call the Samaritans.

Cry as much as you need to as you are processing that way.

Are you able to go outside for a bit? Sit outside?

Are you eating and drinking?

I want to encourage you to endure this emotional mess and NOT go back to them. I think it will be worth it. You now somehow need to deal with your emotions, any guilt etc. So I'd focus on getting support for that (here, Samaritans, GP...) and not consider responding to them even for a second. Over time and with distance it can get easier and you will see clearer.

Good idea to have a shower!!

I know you think you are the problem. You'll probably think this for some more time. But you'll think it when you are with them, so you might as well be away from them and think it there.

You don't owe anyone anything. Nothing.

@rollerbutterfly
I am honestly so angry on your behalf just reading this. These people are beyond belief ! It totally is not you and no reflection on the person you are. They are evil frankly. .I am so sorry you have had to endure such crap from them.
I second everything others are saying. Report to the police then get some support.
Personally I would send one final message to all 3 of them and tell them in no uncertain terms to never contact you again or turn up.at your door .
Then change your number and block them and ignore, ignore, ignore. Hell I would even consider moving long term myself but obviously that's not a quick or easy solution and may not even be possible for you.
And do whatever you have to do to get through this time without guilt ..if that is eating mountains of chocolate so be it. If it is sleeping then do that ! And keep talking on here. People are so supportive and really do understand.
Sending much love xxx

@rollerbutterfly I totally agree with @binkie163 and @Twatalert Their advice is right in my opinion. My thought is because they weren’t getting anywhere with you the last few weeks, they’ve created this huge drama to try and frighten you into submission. However as others say it’s also given you proof that they are harassing you with unfounded accusations. If it were me, I would go totally no contact with them all, block everything! use support telephone lines/groups to help, also this thread and people you only trust 100% to help. Start working through recovering from this mess they’ve caused. You deserve a peaceful happy life and as previous posts here have shown, it is achievable.

Although going NC is difficult at times, it certainly sounds no more traumatic than what you’re facing now. People being estranged from their childhood families is more common than you think as this thread proves, so police/emergency services will understand if explained to them. Many have toxic families who won’t let go. Be prepared they’ll probably resist to begin with, as once you’re free from them, siblings will start worrying the toxic nature of your family will start turning inwards on them. Whilst they have you to bully, they are safe. My thoughts are also with you at this difficult time x

@rollerbutterfly your sister isn't right in her head.

Your ex doesn't get it either. He doesn't sound like he gets it and would not validate you.

Get some water into your system. Or make a nice other drink. Try to exit the endless loop of rumination if you can. Just for a second every time you catch yourself going over everything again and again. Any distraction might help. Something on TV, a crossword, video games.

Make yourself a priority. The reality is you have lost your family already and never had them to begin with. So you aren't losing anything other than an illusion. They abandoned you a long time ago but still want to you play your role in the dysfunctional family system.

@rollerbutterfly it’s not you. It’s THEM.

I’m glad you're rehydrating and resting. They're upping the abuse because they know you're slipping out of their hands.

I saw my toxic (now dead) mother in law do this. She'd scream, shout, or be the pathetic victim to bring us to heel.

Your family will throw everything at you. Do not step into the mesh because every time you get out of the mesh, they will make it worse.

You can do this.

Huge hugs.

@MonkeyfromManchester - It’s my understanding that a Will only becomes a publicly-available document after Probate is issued. However, if a person is a beneficiary (which if I recall correctly GB isn’t) then they can ask to see the Will at any point in the probate / executor process.

My sister had taken my mother to a solicitor to change her will, removing me as executor, appointing her husband instead of me, and removing all the grandchildren. She and her husband had also obtained POA without informing anyone (as one is legally obliged to do in the POA application).

It was typical behaviour on their part and just the tip of the iceberg. I have maintained NC with Toxic Sister and my 2 brothers, one of whom has subsequently died, and I have absolutely no intention of changing that. I’m pretty sure she has a personality disorder and my life is a lot better without her in it.

Sounds like GB is looking for some kind of supply – whether that be money or inserting himself into your lives for some other gain – it’s the usual parasitic pattern.

Hi - just a quick practical/legal question in case anyone knows about this. If someone is making unwanted contact, having being told not to, and you want to report it to police - if you are living in a different country to them do you report it where you are living or where they are? From googling I think you report it where you are but I'm not sure.

(I'm not in this situation right now and probably won't be - but I just want to know what to do in advance for anything that might arise if I go fully NC.)
Thanks!

@Raggycrow - I don't know the answer to this question. I had the same thing from my awful sister-in-law who was abroad and was sending hate mail and hateful text messages. Only recently she was sending more shit via someone else's FB account. I just block and move on if ever she pops up.

Here in the UK, I think it comes under the Malicious Communications Act.

Thanks @Sicario . Sorry your sil is doing that - it sounds so stressful and upsetting but that you are dealing with it perfectly. Doesn't seem right that we aren't more protected and have to keep trying to get them to leave us alone without any help.

I guess I could always report stuff where I am and if that was wrong hopefully they would at least tell me who/what else to try.

It kind of makes me miss the time when people couldn't just access us like this. But on the other hand it's the digital world that's allowed me to learn about this stuff and meet other people in the same boat and find out they are dealing with the same issues and that my reactions to what's happened are very normal. Otherwise I'd be still be thinking the problem is just me

@Raggycrow These Dysfunctional families can be like toxic stalkers can’t they? I would guess it’s local police to you and then they may contact police who are local to the person doing it depending on level of abuse. I’ve blocked all my lot, email, phone, WhatsApp etc. I’ve also come off all social media except FB which I use lightly as I volunteer with an animal charity which is organised via FB groups. However I’ve blocked or deleted all relevant people on that too. I can always rejoin any of these if I wish via a different account. Luckily my lunatic mother hasn’t appeared so I’m hopeful that’s it for now, however as she only lives 90 minutes away I’m always a bit paranoid she’ll turn up. However she’s a bit decrepit now and last time she did it I shut the door in her face before she could say a word. Thankfully flying monkeys have all been silent too, but this is my second time after 6 years NC and stupidly giving them a second chance so I think they know it’s a bit pointless hopefully. First time was much harder as they were more determined and couldn’t believe I’d done it. As you say, the digital age can be a bit of a mixed blessing!!

@Raggycrow - something to keep in mind is that these malicious communications say everything about THEM and nothing about you. I mean, what kind of psycho behaves like that?

It's a symptom of their rage that you have dared to cut them out of your life. They can't stand it.

The SIL who was sending this shit to me was being spurred by my Toxic Sister (this was instantly clear from the content of the poison-pen shite). I only ever met the SIL once, and she was (and remains) possibly the most awful person I have ever encountered.

Try not to let it upset you. Best not to read anything and to delete, ignore, and block.

Thank you @Sicario and @SkylarkDay . I'm realising how much I will need to be mentally prepared, not just practically prepared. I hope both your families will leave you in peace now.

To whoever asked about wills (I was looking on my phone, I can't remember) - yes you can look at a will - https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

There's a small fee, only a couple of quid as I remember. I did this after I found out that my father had died because I wanted to be certain it was him (we were estranged and I used to google his name periodically and one day got a hit which suggested he might have died. He disinherited me, BTW).

Haven't posted on here in a while so people may not remember me. I was in a tough spot last year after my SD died and my mother was widowed and trying to lean on me after twenty years of LC. I'm in therapy at the moment trying to unpick my childhood and deal with my anxiety. A lot of stuff is coming out and I feel it is helping. However my mother came to visit this w/end and stayed with us for a few days. I worked really hard to have my anxiety under control, to not get stressed, to ignore silly comments. She talked about the long haul holiday she's going on w SB (making it clear she's putting money into this). She talked about the money she gives my brother on a regular basis. I didn't comment and OH and I paid for the activities and eating out we did while she was here. I haven't had a bday or xmas present from her in 15 years. I've asked for nothing. Absolutely nothing.

She made noises about me going to visit her in the town she's moved to (she's moved near to SB). After she'd gone, she messaged to say she'd had a nice time. So far, so normal. Given that I felt the weekend had gone well, I was stupid. I suggested a place we could visit for lunch if I did. I didn't ask her to pay, I just sent the link and said we could go here. Her immediate response? It's too expensive.

I know it's petty, but I just felt really hurt. I still feel really hurt this morning. I can't even completely figure out why. Obviously it has something to do with the disparity in treatment. I also feel stupid for making the suggestion. It's like I forgot everything I've learned because she behaved for a couple of days.