March 2024 - But we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

@IAAP what a fabulous update. Well done you..Enjoy every second of your new and wonderful life ! You so deserve it! Xxx

Just reading through and I find it very interesting regarding Empath v hyper vigilance. It’s kind of a penny dropping moment as previously people say ‘oh you’re an empath’ like it’s a great gift, and I’ve tried to work out why I can feel people so much. Well actually I think it’s purely hyper vigilance due to growing up with a very violent unpredictable mother. God, it’s so utterly exhausting, I hate it!! Plus as others mention I struggle with large gatherings & find them totally overwhelming. Couldn’t really work out why and I had discounted social anxiety as I’m confident enough speaking to people when I need to. Now I can see the feeling of being overwhelmed comes from trying to constantly read everybody on-mass and probably over analysing everything on the spot. I really hate it. I do find mindfulness meditation helps. The bit where they talk about seeing thoughts purely as random thought clouds in our head and letting them float away, rather than hooking into them and then believing them to be fact. Might sound odd but it really described how my head is sometimes.

@IAAP so good to hear a positive story, proves there is always hope despite our crappy childhoods. I agree whilst in contact with them they have the ability to reduce us to feeling like a helpless child. I have to say NC makes my life unbelievably better and I have so much more confidence & self belief since ditching them all.

@IAAP that is sooooo fantastic to read. I am so happy for you. I think healing unlocks sonething in us and then we develop new patterns. Just WONDERFUL!

the Hag died in Feb (no fucks given), the funeral was laughably dysfunctional due to Mr Monkey’s chip off the old block narc golden boy brother. His new child bride and daughter in tow with previous wife and their adult sons - who Golden Boy has ignored for a decade - were also there, plus a smattering of ex girlfriends. Just excellent peopld watching.

Golden Boy gallops off into the sunset. No help with the estate or anything.

just been on holiday and, whilst we were there, GB rjngs. MM ignores it. Half brother - Slave Son is manipulated to text Mr Monkey. GB is down from Scotland this Sat, can MM book a table at a restaurant!!!! No, he cannot. GB walked out on his famiky, ignored his mother etc etc.

MM: sorry, i’ve made other plans.

SO PROUD OF HIM.

@IAAP you deserve your lovely new life. I agree NC is the only way to deal with it. You cannot heal from toxic trauma while sitting in the middle of it. We are responsible for our choices in life xx

Wonderful update @IAAP and so glad to hear things are going well. All power to you!

This thread is a lifeline for anyone navigating toxic family dynamics and a brilliant support network for those brave enough to pull the ripcord and walk away.

Solidarity to all!

What a wonderful update from you IAAP. You’ve

All been through a lot these last few years. Your thanks to me is very much appreciated 😀

@AttilaTheMeerkat I don’t think
I am exaggerating when I say this thread and support brings light in the darkest of times from people who actually understand where you are coming from, the resources such as the YouTube videos etc all helped educate me so I could finally see it wasn’t me, it was a conditioned response and once I had that I could finally start to think who I really was, the real me, not the one that can’t read The Guardian - as heaven forbid we might have a leftie daughter 🤣 and yes I do now read the guardian and didn’t vote conservative, because I’ve found myself and my values.

@MonkeyfromManchester you and your support and humour (in the bleakness of the hag’s antics) showed me that someone could love someone else with a family like mine / although Mr IAAP never had to meet my biological parents - thank god and put up with them, he had a great upbringing and family but he also understands you can’t repair relationships with narcissistic and abusive people as they just will never change and you are their fuel, their energy and they suck life out of you. The Dementors in Harry Potter are well named and they acts like Narcs - you need good kind positive people around and to keep them away from you. I’m so glad you and Mr Monkey are doing well and the Golden Bollocks isn’t being allowed to swan in and back - ffs asking Mr Monkey to book a restaurant for him (!)

For anyone going NC the first year is hard, your birthday, theirs, mother day, Christmas etc we did it in October 2022 (I think I did a typo on my original post and said 2023) but this year I’ve been there and done it and my headspace is now being used for painting and gardening - others useful stuff. I look at myself in the mirror occasionally and I think - god you had a rough start, but you are a really nice person and yes, you are no longer a sapling bending in the wind - you are the oak tree.

These abusers (and they are abusers) they condition us, they make us question all of our decisions and take any joy from us - they are like poisonous snakes in the grass - you might think you can train them not to bite you or poison you - but the real life is they bite you every single time you pick them up - so you have to stop. After a while you think - oh it’s a poisonous snake over there and you think about it, then later you think there is a poisonous snake in that bit of grass I will walk on the path - and then suddenly you are looking at the birds on the sky not worrying about the snake in the grass as you are nice and safe elsewhere.

I raise a glass of confidence and solidarity with all of you.
You can and do heal from this.
x

@IAAP I’m so happy for you. The awful, awful pain was worth pushing through. Your parents will be gutted if they find out about your happiness. Their abuse didn't work.

Mr Monkey has stuck to his guns.

We’re not facilitating Golden Bollocks swanning into our lives.

GB did the obvious phone MM first as he viewed him as someone to manipulate. We were in Portugal, so his mobile rang in a way to signify “fuck off, we’re on holiday” and MM didn't even notice the call. 😆

GB then rang Slave Son, who has no agency, so I texted MM to sort everything out.

GB expects MM to have no life and/or be prepared to drop everything.

I think not.

Hopefully, the twat won’t invite himself on Sunday to our home/our refuge against appalling family dynamics.

I won't be very cordial.

GB obviously wants something.

Money?

The Hag’s money was left to Mr Monkey - a nice kick in the teeth for Slave Son, who did everything for the witch and sacrificed his life for her - and there was a bit in her will that she was leaving nothing to GB as she hadn't seen him for years.

So, questions…

I don't think GB knows the content of the will from Slave Son or MM.

QUESTIONS.

Can you request a copy of a will as a family member? If so, will GB have found that route to find details out?

Or is it a game to get back at a lovely sister in law (his ex-wife) and his sons? “Look at my family. We’re all back together.”

He didn't like the way it was so clear that SIL was much loved and at the heart of the family from what he saw at the funeral.

Or is it making sure his new wife and daughter aged six get to know us?

MM and I have agreed we’re not getting involved as it will be another shit show of a relationship. GB has form as he left Wife No 2 and child as a baby in the Philippines for months with no contact, and she had to contact his friends to track him down.

So, get to know Uncle and Aunt Monkey as they can give the little girl money from The Hag’s will.

He's fallen on hard times. He used to flash the £££ around. Not the Malmaison this time, but Travelodge.

He’s a PEACH.

He won't be getting what he wants as we’re not playing ball.

The other thing about GB and Travelodge, I suspect, is that glam first wife, who he stupidly saw as a trophy, was ideal for Malmaison. Wife 2 is the nurse to be, as nowhere as remotely glam as Wife 1 and more fitting to a Travelodge in his eyes.

He's a TWAT.

@rollerbutterfly once again, well done! And sorry you had another binge and obviously feel awful as a result.

If it's any help I had a terrible time at the beginning of setting and maintaining boundaries with my parents. Everything got worse at first. Huge guilt which almost let me crack and the biggest and longest panic attack of my life. I thought I would die and was ok with it.

I think these first stages bring everything out that's been suppressed. Hope you can move through these feelings and it starts to get easier.

@rollerbutterfly - burner phones are good. You can control when (and if) you switch it on, and block numbers on your regular phone.

@MonkeyfromManchester - repel borders! repel borders! If MM is up for it, I would recommend blocking GB and doing a firm NC. I think we all know where this is heading...

@rollerbutterfly I agree, the initial weaning off stage when going NC is not easy and mentally traumatic and emotionally everything comes to a bit of a head. You start seeing things as they’ve truly been, it takes a while to find your true self and gain confidence, so you feel a bit unanchored & vulnerable. You’ll be going through a form of bereavement in a sense. So don’t be hard on yourself, give yourself time to grieve, and try to get through this stage as best you can. Long term in my experience, it’s so worth it but initially it’s a bit of a challenge. You’ll also swing between good days and bad days, hope things improve soon and you get some peace.

Hang in there @rollerbutterfly.

@rollerbutterfly I hear you. I know the feeling. The power they seem to have, the binging, the self loathing, the adrenaline and insomnia. You are not alone. I wish I could suggest something to make it easier.

Can you sit it out for one more day and then see if you can manage another one? Is anyone supporting you or distracting you? Would you want that?

@Sicario , didn't your sister do dodgy stuff with the will? I want to know whether the fucker has ‘researched’ the will and that's his motivation. Can people access that info?

Obviously, it’s not about happy families.

MM has no intention of seeing him. I'm more stressed by it than him TBH.

I'm dreading the why don't we go out for lunch? No waaaay. He’ll want to fuck off back to Scotland ASAP as his narcissistic self will have been hurt by MM’s refusal to engage.

Interestingly, he's swanning into Manchester on the back of a holiday to the Lakes. Not his usual style where he used to flash the cash and talk incessantly about £.

Yes, I think embezzling your business partner - you couldn't make this shit up - means his high flying days are over and its BnBs, not five star resorts in Bali.

@rollerbutterfly thinking of you, it is not easy. Just wanted to say that I have the same visceral reaction to my mother's voice too. When she turns on the smarm and is fake effusive and fake loving. It makes my skin literally crawl and I am repelled by it.

I think this is our gut reaction and we should trust it. Our senses know this person is bad and trouble. We should listen to our bodies.

I think on this thread we are all guilty of self sabotaging or self harming when we are destabilised by these people. I know yours is bingeing and I harm myself in a different way.

Please don't beat yourself up for using whatever you have to to get through this unstable and distressing period. Sending you love and solidarity xxx

My god @rollerbutterfly I'm so sorry. I was glad to read you had a nap but wasn't prepared for the rest. Truly awful.

Again, I get it. Years ago I came home from a day out to 12 missed calls. I thought someone had died. This went on all through my adulthood. I couldn't go on a holiday without not being in contact. They would claim to be concerned. I carried the burden from a young age that I had to contact my parents asap or they'd think I have died. I had no idea it wasn't my burden to carry.

It's sickening how they feign concern when day to day they don't care about your feelings etc.

Honestly just put a note outside your door for any ambulance or police to say you are ok and to not listen to these people. Maybe turn it around and claim they have been harassing you daily etc. I have no idea if you have any grounds there, just throwing things out there. It's so upsetting. I'd actually try to put something on police record even if they aren't pursuing it. But they would have a record that you have raised something, no? For next time?

I want to say you need to block them once and for all. They need to know you are going NC. No point in explaining why. But I know it's so difficult emotionally and you are already in a state.

Try to find tiny moments of peace. Just a second sometimes. Lean on us here or anyone if you feel you can. I know it can be difficult in real life. Not everyone has friends and you worry about dumping on them if you do. We don't worry about that here though.

Honestly, I'd make a file or something and collect every piece of that and bring it to police and ask for advice.

They are all abusing you very badly. It's not your fault. You are their scapegoat. It's them. It's not you.

Do you feel you are able to say that you will no longer be in contact? You don't have to decide or say it's forever. I know they probably won't respect it but at least whatever they then do would very obviously be harassment!? Or worse!?