March 2024 - But we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

If you can source other childcare, I would do so Twobigbabies. Your parents will be replicating your experience with your children. It isn't healthy for your son not your daughter. I know it isn't easy but being 'beholden' to them never ends well.

Yes you're right at least I can use the minor stroke as an excuse. I will say I think she needs rest now because of her condition. Pathetic but easier than another confrontation with her!

Twobigbabies

If your parents are too toxic and otherwise too difficult for you to deal with, it’s the same deal for the kids too.

I would cease them doing childcare asap as they are not emotionally safe enough people to be around and she’s already replicating the childhood dynamic of scapegoat and golden child. This could furthermore damage their sibling relationship. You likely only bother with your mother because you have received the Special Training to put her needs and wants first with your own dead last.

Women like your mother cannot do relationships so always need a willing enabler to help them, this here bring your dad. He has been a bystander and secondary abuser so cannot be relied upon either. He has also failed you abjectly as a parent and will continually throw you under the bus to avoid her wrath and rages. Indeed use her minor stroke as an excuse.

Checking in.

I’m on holiday this week and since Friday night have been feeling so much more energised and wanting to really both relax and tidy and self care this week. I had a few wobbles last week and it’s suddenly hit me that he will be 84 this year and she will be 80.

I’ve struggled with eating over the years, very thin, very overweight and I’ve been overweight since I went NC with them 3 years ago and we are past the 3 year anniversary now and I just thought - nope I’m not doing this anymore and just eating sugar - so I’ve done a total detox and will keep going through this week and get my eating under control. I suddenly thought I eat and can’t stop as I’m equating it with loving my self as my parents really didn’t feed us properly. I was less than 6 stone when I went off to university - they both had huge chocolate store and I mean boxes but their idea of a snack for me was a mouldy orange that had been in the bowl for a week. Suddenly starting to see they are really linked - wow! As is sleep, as is illness etc

@IAAP well done on sugar detox ✊

I am still trying to get my head round 'the body keeps the score' I definitely felt a massive reduction of anxiety after 2 months of going NC.

@Raisedbyanarc
Hopefully this will help you.find the new thread. I can't do a link sorry!
If you search @AttilaTheMeerkat You should find us as she co ordinares it all. Look for the march thread.
Come join us x

At everyone - hello! Quickly popping by. @IAAP that's fantastic new! @Genuineweddingone keep on going. I'm glad your step siblings can see what a toxic lunatic your mother is. ❤️

We all need that sense check, many of us don't, sadly. Mr Monkey grew up in a childhood where there was holy murder going on behind closed doors with his vile mother and yet to the outside world she was a lovely, kind ‘do anything for anyone’ Irish catholic lady.

He is so triggered by a lot of stuff. We went to see A Taste of Honey at the theatre on Saturday (all about a dysfunctional mother-daughter relationship). We got a cab home and he looked utterly shell-shocked and is still wrestling with all that it threw up.

THESE F**KING ABUSERS.

@IAAP the more time goes on the more you can see the linkages between how you were treated by your parents and, well, almost every single thing you do and think. Some of them are obvious - I fill silences with nervous chatter because my mother would shout if someone wasn't constantly talking and paying her attention. I apologise for existing and being present because she would apologise to other people, give them gifts etc even in one case where I was doing 8 hours of farm labour for free for a neighbour. I find evidence for everything I say and do not just because I'm a lawyer but because words are absolutely nothing to her. It really isn't you, it's them.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau I feel so sorry for your situation. You definitely are making the right choice though with rehab as it keeps you away from all toxic things including your mother. I have no words of wisdom but I do hope you can get this sorted out soon.

Has your boyfriend actually broken up with you?

Thanks @Genuineweddingone. I'm not sure if we're broken up as we're both speaking kindly to each other and appear actually still to be friends.

By the way, I don't want to be confrontational about this but I've noticed a couple of my posts are either being reported or I'm writing something automatically reported - does anyone know what that is? I don't want to upset people.

Oh I read that before it was deleted. I have no idea why it was deleted either? I did not see anything harmful or offensive in there.

Did it have a link in it?

No, and there wasn't in the previous one either. Thanks for answering by the way :)

@MonkeyfromManchester I remember years ago the film 'sleeping with the enemy' a few mins in the husband rearranges the hand towels, lining them up exactly.
My mum use to do that, it was unnerving to see it on film 😮

Cecile I think you've only had one post hidden/deleted on this thread.

There was one on the previous thread too. I was confused but didn't comment on that one.

I remember that one, and you apologised for it.

Hello everyone, I'm wondering if you can give me some advice from the perspective of people who come from abusive childhood homes. I hope this question isn't triggering for anyone, as that is absolutely not my intention.
My DP was physically abused as a child up until the age of 17. It was mostly by his father. He told me this early on in our relationship but he is slowly giving me more details of what actually happened on occasion, and it's to a level I couldn't imagine and worse than I thought. I hate what happened to him and feel awful for what he's had to endure and want to be there for him in the way he needs and in a way that's helpful to him.

When he brings these things up (usually randomly out of nowhere just says, my dad used to do this and this to me) I try to just listen en empathise and say I'm so sorry you've gone through that, but he just says, you don't need to apologise its not your fault and then moves on.
So I'm not really sure how I can support him and how to say the right thing and what he needs to hear in those instances.

I usually don't know if it's appropriate for me to ask more questions about it or if it's better to just let him tell me when he's comfortable? Or would not asking those questions look uncaring? I just don't want to pry or trigger him.

How would you like your partner to support you and what would you want them to say to you when you start to open up to a partner and give details on the abuse you suffered as a child?

Any advice is welcome

Well done @IAAP my mum called me fat from birth. All snacks/treats banned. From 16-18 I lived on just apples and toast and dropped to under 8 st and everyone told me I looked ill. She was delighted. Never been able to keep weight in check since I left home just constantly yoyo. Intermittent fasting works for me though I tend to binge during my window which isn't healthy. Good luck with sugar free.

@Dealingwithabuse Bless you, I think you are doing fine. It is very tricky, another poster on here @MonkeyfromManchester has supported her husband and had to deal with the abusive parent herself. Its worth reading back a year.

There is no right or wrong way, just listening without judging❤

If you feel comfortable asking questions then ask, if your husband is like me, he will answer some, close down others but have no idea how to answer some stuff. I cant always say why some things upset or make me angry. Some stuff is really awful and it is hard to tell people as we dont want sympathy or pity, it is just what it is, we cant change our childhood, it is hard to explain.
Never try to justify anything his family did, we have all had a lifetime of well meaning people making excuses or minimizing the abuse saying 'the parents did their best' or 'you only have one family' that one really gets my goat!
We are mostly fabulous people who didnt have good families, abuse behind closed doors and we are doing our best to navigate normal life, normal feelings, behaviour and it is all bloody alien to us xx

I’ve been reading everyone’s posts.

I am LC with my mother, who is in contact with my two brothers and their families that I am NC with. I find it triggering when she mentions them in passing. I also find myself spending quite a lot of time thinking about all the stuff I went through because of them. My brothers are over 20 years older than me and there was a lot of bullying, some inappropriate sexual behaviour and comments from one of them (that I weirdly only remembered recently) and they are both full on narcs. They use their children + partners as flying monkeys (some of them also narcs). Sometimes I don’t know who is the narc or the flying monkey but in any case it doesn’t matter as a lot of toxic stuff was directed at me.

I’ve been NC with one sibling for 20 years and I used to think about , but don’t so much any more.

I have only been NC with the other brother and his family for 2.5 years. I used to be close to them as a kid but I now realise how much emotional abuse I endured. There were a couple of shocking events and behaviour that made me take a step back to examine what my role had been in their lives. A scapegoat and someone to make fun of to make themselves feel better. I also realised how I had just normalised their behaviour because that’s what I was taught to do by my parents. My brother had an arranged marriage, had many affairs (one of which he couldn’t hide), his wife has never worked and they both live of a business that our father bought them. He bullies much of his staff and it’s in a small village with not many jobs so they stay! They are not nice people and it’s a lot to finally acknowledge this. It’s a mixture of grieving, shock at the realisation of what actually happened instead of the story I made myself believe and regret for the amount of time I put into those relationships. So much regret :( I now want to mentally and emotionally move on - any tips or words that can help me let go of this? It’s pointless stuff whirring around in my head. I want to use my head for other things.

@tonewbeginnings I think this stuff keeps running through our heads because we are trying to make sense of it.
An easy one that worked for me was being told your mind can only hold one thought at a time, every time you think of something negative, stop, immediately replace it with another thought, I have a particular memory that makes me smile (my dog) I use that same memory, I found it easier to repeat that pattern than random thoughts. It worked for me. I don't follow the science but it's to do with reprogramming neural pathways, similar I suppose to it takes 3 weeks to break/make a habit and replace with new.

Checking in .

I am so glad we have this place...

No particular problem today, but just wondering - does anyone else find that any contact or dealings with their family of origin is like stepping into Alice's Wonderland? The way the normal rules of living are upended or wrong-footed... You think 'Surely, this time, my sense and determination to do right and logic will prevail - surely this time they won't be able to twist and corrupt this simple thing...'. But they do. It's like being in a dream, where you're running as fast as you can but your legs aren't taking you anywhere.

And I find that having a 'script' or points you want to make are of no use whatsoever - the only thing that helps - apart from avoiding the buggers - is to hold onto your own values and sense of self. To think 'Well at least I've done right by my own standards.' But my god, it's exhausting and unnerving...

Just wanting to share really. Wishing everyone strength and peace today! 🤗