March 2024 - But we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

Letshopeso

Its hard being the last one left who bothers with your mother but really and truly she is not worth bothering about. Your people pleasing nature too comes from wanting to parent please this difficult and otherwise abusive parent and you likely still seek her approval even now. She will never give you this. Your mother conditioned and otherwise trained you from an early age to put her needs and wants first with your own dead last.

Protect yourself and in turn your own family by lessening all levels of interaction with her. Ultimately you will also need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

@Schneekugel thank you for your reply. You are right my sibling is not causing me stress, my mother is so frustrated at her child cutting her off and not letting her see her grandchildren that she is taking it out on me.
There is a long history of things, the sibling has had issues with me for years and I have regrets but feel I was stuck between them. My mother is convinced her child is only cutting her off due to mental health issues, it's somehow my fault and not anything she has done in the past .🙄
This sibling though has cut off everyone now including one who was always very supportive and generous to them, letting them stay in their property etc, which makes me angry. I think their partner has also had a part to play in this too.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you for your reply, I've followed Mumsnet for years and have found your advice to people very helpful.

I have reduced contact at times over the last years since my father passed away when my mother starts her nastiness, I've actually taken her back home when I was going to take her out for the day, when she started ranting at me in my car. She will contact me after a couple or few weeks, she'll be okay for a bit then it starts again. She has definitely got worse with age and family issues.
I used to feel sorry for her as my father was financially abusive, they had a bad marriage that us children had to put up with when we were growing up. They were both very much at fault. They should have divorced but didn't due to religious reasons.
Its not important now but they never ever told us they loved us although I suppose they showed us in other ways at times. They both had difficult childhoods.

I live close by and always end up feeling guilty. She has a lot of friends and is busy with stuff.
It just always slips back in to the same stuff, I end up reacting, being nasty back then I feel awful. I don't like feeling like this, I have problems with confidence, confrontation, friendships even though I have a career that I worked hard for.

Thank you for listening and in some ways it's comforting to know it's not just me but I feel for you all. As I said before, it's difficult to try and explain to friends, people don't get what it's like to have a difficult mother.

@Sicario 100% selfish parents. I remember my mum drunkenly screaming to anyone who would listen that her children ruined her fun/partying/boozing, not sure why as she still got drunk every day.

My Easter gift to everyone is, people only treat you badly if you let them. That includes families. If you don't respect yourself and your boundaries no one else will xx

I bet a lot of us will get unasked for and unwanted Easter gifts this year (as previous posters have said, remember the food banks, where appropriate).

Dysfunctional people will always use high days and holidays to further their purpose - it's never a simple, honest gift from the heart intended to give pleasure to the recipient, is it? It's always a bargaining chip and an attempt to impose an obligation.

I have an anxiety around receiving gifts, and I used to think I must be a right old misery-moo; but I now think it was the reasons above - they were always loaded...

Let'sHopeSo your sibling is distancing themselves from anyone who is still connected to your mother. It's understandable IMO. A lot of those people will be flying monkeys, even if inadvertently.

Whilst people may have been helpful in the past, if they're making negative comments, questioning why sibling has cut mother off, expecting information or justification regarding that decision or telling sibling how upset mother is etc, then sibling is right to cut off from these people too, to protect themselves. You don't know that people aren't making these type of comments. I think others find it hard to just accept the decision without judgement, when someone goes NC. So I'm guessing your sibling has had judgement.

It could also be that sibling doesn't want mother to have information about themselves or DC and others who are in contact with mother might relay information to her. Not because they're being nasty, but because things come up naturally in conversation or because mother pumps them for information. Can you honestly say that with how nasty mother is being to you, that if you had any information on sibling you wouldn't have told mother in the heat of the moment, just to shut her up and stop her attack on you? Maybe the only way sibling can prevent mother having information is to cut off anyone who still speaks to mother and is on friendly terms with mother.

Binkie post-children she was probably judged (or judged more) for it by some and didn't like that.

Enjoy your weekend away Monkey.

With regard to gifts, my older sister had form for sending me the most pointless gifts ever. Books I'd already read and ridiculous bits of china which I didn't want or need.

Her best efforts though, were the £20 bank transfers to an account she knew I no longer used or had access to. (Did you get your £20? Oh how silly of me. I'd forgotten that you don't bank with them anymore. I'll get it back and you just tell me your new bank details), and of course, I never got all the £20s.

She did it four years running, until I completely blocked her and she got the message.

Once, she got me a load of hideous china which she got from ebay. Her DH brought it round in a cardboard box, wrapped in newspaper.

It gave me great satisfaction to smash it all on the floor. Yes, it was wasted, but I was so angry!

The shit gift-giving is typical of their crap behaviour. My highly toxic sister was a master at passive-aggressive gifting. Sometimes wrapping up any old shit that she'd picked up out of her own house that she didn't want. The thing that really used to piss me off is that she would do this to my kids too, gifting them absolute shite.

My guess is that they cannot bear to consider other people's feelings. The thought of someone else enjoying themselves angers them deeply. Fun must be ruined at any cost.

@Sicario oh heavens yes. My four children got shite presents, too.

They used to discuss it - "what did auntie X get you this year - I got an odd pair of socks"

And the fucking ceremonies my sister held for the Presentation of the Gifts. Everyone invited for lunch so she could distribute her crap

Ugh. I'm so glad that all my children have now blocked her, too.

I have been thinking about your post and it made me think of the Elton John biopic Rocketman. His parents were awful to him. Made him very insecure and in the credits at the end it says,
"And he is loved.".
It's worth a watch if you like EJ.
I know what you feel like wanting to be loved. Rubbish relationships often follow bad parenting. I think in my 40s I learnt to like myself and I think in my 50s I don't care anymore I know I've got here by hook or by crook despite them and not because of them. Be kind to yourself and love yourself you deserve it.x

I hope you all manage to have a peaceful Easter weekend x

Dh is home from his work trip, dc2 stressed about schoolwork, dc1 stressed about university work, I'm just knackered. I'm still not sleeping. Dr appointment in a couple of weeks, so hopefully, I'll get something:(

We are going to pils on Sunday. Not looking forward to it. Dh agreed without discussion. We've had words!

I sense my boundaries need to be redrawn as far as dhs expectations of me/pils is concerned. Sigh.

I intend to eat my own body weight in chocolate 🍫 😋

(Hugs)

@AttilaTheMeerkat @Compash I think I will distribute to a charity shop - mostly clothes and books. I've also talked to friends about giving the really nice books to their kids so someone actually benefits.

'it's never a simple, honest gift from the heart intended to give pleasure to the recipient, is it? It's always a bargaining chip' - I think you've managed to summarise why I feel so uncomfortable about the whole thing.

We are going have to change the entire door so leaving the key in it until we can get someone round.

Hi, is it OK if I join this thread? I was signposted to it after I posted about going NC with all my family and one posrer said how helpful it was to them x

Your user name shows how appropriate it is for you to be here! 😄 Nice to meet you!

Thank you so much! I have been reading back a little bit on the previous thread and can see why I was directed here. You are all so brave and strong sharing your stories ❤

I am just "dipping my toe in" as I have put everything that happened in a box for years, and a little bit worried about opening it up too much.

The guilt/shame don't fit nicely into the box though and have probably helped keep it closed this long.

Thank you for being so welcoming x

@JellyWellyBoots

“whenever I have helped any of my family it has been thrown back in my face through disrespect & badmouthing”

You already know what you need to do. Stay strong and look after yourself.

@Ncforthebest welcome!

I joined about a year ago and it’s helped a lot. Especially in not feeling alone in it all.

I have been a lurker on these threads and am coming to realise I had a narcissistic DM.
She died over 20 years ago. How did anyone else deal with these feelings after the person has died?

@Ncforthebest , I can relate so much to your putting it all in a box. I kept a tight lid on my box, not only about my narcissistic DM but the consequences of how it shaped my life. I was put into certain 'boxes' and was shaped into a person I didn't like or want to be.

In a nutshell, I was parentified. Coped with her alcoholism, agoraphobia, bulimia, anorexia and used like a punchbag.

It was all brought to a head by an unrelated situation and I couldn't keep the box locked anymore. I had to face it and had a breakdown and am now working on becoming the real me, whatever that is...

Ok so the update on mother of the year. I would not see her face to face last saturday so she did not get the drama she was hoping for. We saw stepdad and he was fine, nothing wrong with him. Monday one of the stepsiblings got a message off her to say he is VERY unwell and she is taking him out of the nursing home so a few days of a few different siblings etc checking things out and in the end it was all bullshit. Nothing wrong with him and he is going nowhwere she just caused a drama for no reason bar she is I assume bored. Shes also playing the victim because she has nobody anymore and no next of kin. No accountability for what she has done. Anyway this weeked and next I am far too busy to care so glad the stepsiblings are stepping up but as it is easter weekend and she sees herself as a good irish catholic woman I can imagine she will be playing victim again as she wont see any grand children. We reep what we sow keeps going around in my mind.

Bloody hell @Genuineweddingone that's appalling.

It really is. And obviously there was other stuff that happened but that is the bones of it. Its so sad and frustrating and worrying and all sorts of things. Why can she not let anyone get on with their lives without this constant drama?

@Juniperberries200 another parentified child of a selfish alcoholic here. Most of my childhood is stuffed in a big box. I leave it locked away. Your mum sounds disgusting like mine, seeing my mum in such a state repulsed me. My mum died last year, I felt nothing but relief.
We are survivers of shit parents x

@Genuineweddingone god save us from the bored narcissist 😡 mine use to kick off out of boredom, just transparent twats looking for attention ugh. They certainly get their just deserts in the end

@binkie163 i know but its so tiring when all you want is to be left alone to live your life. Its so horrible to have this anxiety inside all the time not knowing what they are going to do next. Sorry I am just really feeling it today and its getting to me. I need to have a cry, have a shower and move on.

@Genuineweddingone I mean this kindly, but could you just block the negative people in your life?

I blocked both my sisters a couple of years ago, and it was the best thing I ever did. It gave me back a sense of control, and my life has been calmer and gentler in every way since.

My sisters were nasty bullies. They mocked our now dead autistic sister, and I've no doubt they mocked me behind my back. I never told them when I got my own autism diagnosis, because they would've mocked that, too.