Abuse is everywhere

[Eastwestt]

Cheating, lying, financial abuse, emotional abuse etc is so common, I’m actually shocked to come across any relationship that doesn’t feature abuse.

Not sure why I’m posting. It’s just something I have very depressingly realised lately.

Friends, colleagues, relatives etc - the experiences are countless. From all walks of life. Including my own experiences of men too.

I think those of you saying that you don’t know of anyone in an abusive relationship (and have not been in one either) totally underestimate the mindset of a person who is being abused.

They will act normally whilst carrying deep shame about their situation. It’s not something that you (as a person being abused) tend to let on… to anyone. I’ve had close friends say “Why the HECK didn’t you tell me?” My response was “What would you have done?”

I’m close to my family, parents remained married, lots of great friends… but I couldn’t tell them until I had actually left.

Very MC. Big house, garden, holidays abroad. The lot.

My DM twigged something was up when we met up, as I never had the money to pay for her lunch. I was on a hugely restricted budget.

I wasn’t prevented from seeing my family, but his behaviour when we did see them was awful. Truly awful.

There are loads of threads on here detailing the fall out (emotional, financial etc) of people who’ve been through this. Often it’s compared to the boiling frog analogy… and sometimes it’s not.

Excellent post

The thing about abusive relationships which is difficult is perception. Yes it is more common than used to be thought. The use "domestic abuse" not violence is helpful.

Women often post on this board describing horrendous circumstances but that they will also say their partner is a good dad or similar after describing something that no loving partner would do.

That last bit is always a red flag to me. It's likely that the children see it very clearly and possibly much more clearly than their mother.

Mothers can also be enablers of abusive men, they put them first for a whole host of reasons. Many never leave.

Externally it looks like Mr Charisma and his meek old missus. Once you spot it is hard to not see. Other people will congratulate them on a long marriage. But that does not mean it wasn't full of cruelty.

This sort of bastard is very common. Charming and sweet. The wife is very quiet, but used to be sparky. She changed and he stays the same.

Yes you do know someone in an abusive relationship.

‘Naice’ is a play on the word nice. It’s a joke about how posh people pronounce it.

There are a lot of bad relationships for sure . For me it depends on which social circle I look in - I have my friends I know from uni and living abroad who have all met wonderful men and then my childhood friends from my (largely working class) hometown who mostly got with abusive lazy cheaters.

I met a guy online last year who I was dating briefly. He started off like a dream so committed and attentive without it being love bombing. And then he just switched by the third month and started being super irritable and impatient and low effort . I thought he was just sick of me so tried to end it for both our sakes, but he got visibly upset. I agreed to try again but within a few weeks had to end it for good as he was beginning to try and control me by using the silent treatment.

Looking back I can see that he probably resented me for trying to break up with him earlier so was trying to regain control as he seen it by freezing me out if I raised any issues with him. It obviously backfired because I just didn’t stand for it, but he was the first guy I’d dated in years and I was disappointed in how soon it started veering towards being abusive. Especially as I’m super picky about who I date whether I meet them online or IRL. Usually I can work them out within a few weeks.

Middle class and upper class people are just as likely to be in an abusive relationship.

I've never had a job where I didn't work with a woman or man in some sort of abusive relationship. It's chilling. Unfortunately I didn't hear of any of them breaking up either. I'm sure many are still together.

it’s really strange because people who have been abused attract abusive people and abusive people attract people who have been abused - in fact abusive people have the ability to sniff out vulnerable and insecure people and so they target them. However, people who have been brought up in a secure, loving, nurturing environment also attract people of the same kind too. There’s a whole load of psychology behind it but it is to do with being secure and knowing your worth and knowing your boundaries. People who have been brought up in secure nurturing environments tend to be able to subconsciously filter out abusive/ abused people and so end up dating people who have also grown up in loving and secure environments. There are exceptions to this but I’d say for the most part, this is generally what happens in the dating world.

And this is where the problem lies. You say yourself you don’t put up with shit/ arsehole behaviour. That’s probably down to you being brought up by loving, caring and secure parents who taught you healthy boundaries. Many abusive or abused people were brought up by abusive parents and lack the boundaries due to subconsciously being in fight or flight mode from an early age. People who were abused by their parents have had their brains programmed to function in a certain way that usually ends up with them lacking healthy boundaries and see being abused as normal. Abusers were often also abused by their parents as children in some way and so feel that abusive behaviour is normal. They lack the skills to deal with anger/ jealousy/ bullying or whatever issue they have

Yes I’d say you are blinkered, possibly naive but like I said, you grew up in a normal family environment so you never witnessed what myself and many other people have witnessed. Many victims of abuse don’t tell people what goes on behind closed doors and many abusers appear charming, lovely people to people on the outside but are a whole different kettle of fish behind closed doors. Abuse is very hard to spot

@Begsthequestion

"Until 1994, the right for a husband to abuse his wife was written into the marriage contract in the UK, as there was no such crime as marital rape. Essentially a wife had signed away her right to bodily autonomy if her husband wanted "sex", because that was his right.*"
*
My abusive STBXH told me this once when I refused sex. He said it in a way that told me the only reason he didn't force me was because it was illegal. Sadly a year or so later he decided he wasn't worried about breaking the law.

I've been wondering lately whether he was always abusive and I didn't see it. I first spotted things when he had a mental health issue which he would get help for. Then it got a whole lot worse over lockdown. I have no evidence but I do wonder if he feel down and ALT Right / extreme men's right rabbit hole.

@MarnieMarnie

Dysfunctional people tend to have poor boundaries and unmet/ unresolved childhood needs.
Yes using a partners bank card without permission is FA.
The bickering is called baiting.
Self medication via arguments to try to resolve these needs ( anger, emotional dysregulation)
@littlebopeepp234
I'm not sure why you are surprised?
Dysfunctional people seek other Dysfunctional people to protect the " self" they know

No, I really don't.

Absolutely and in my experience at work, often harder to help.
Educated, well connected middle or upper class men are much better at hiding their abuse and often perceived as 'pillars of the community' etc

It's common knowledge that the wives of police officers are often victims. Can you imagine how hard it would be to speak out and seek help in that scenario?

Humans are naturally combative- as MN proves time and time again with unnecessarily nasty comments directed at other posters. The very first comment on this was accompanied by an eye roll emoji!! And many seem to have enjoyed piling on MarnieMarnie.

Abuse is now understood to extend to a lot more behaviour than the core, indisputably vile and abusive act of inflicting physical violence. The rest seems to be a spectrum of behaviour which, depending on what you include/ exclude could change the victim statistics wildly.

Coercion and emotional abuse appear to be rile. I've experienced both myself. By an ex who considered themselves to be entirely decent and could not fathom that their behaviour was totally unacceptable. They genuinely thought it was reasonable to be relentlessly unpleasant, and it was ok to be angry if I was 'out for too long', etc. I believe when men go off women, they wont leave unless they have another woman lined up so they become nasty towards the person they're with and think it's justified because that person has 'let them down' by going out of their favour.

I shouted during arguments myself on occasion, so maybe I'm also an emotional abuser. Maybe any unpleasant behaviour that happens between a couple that you wouldn't inflict on a stranger is abuse. But then we come back to how strangers on MN behave towards each other and I wonder if we could all just do with being a bit kinder to each other.

@Felicia19
The naivety on this thread is frightening.
Or do you have 24 hr access to cameras in all of your friends & families homes?

I'm generally a very open person, with lots of close friends/family but nobody knew I was a victim until after my relationship ended.
At work, I'm often the first person a women will talk to, despite having close friends & family she could have told. It's often easier talking to someone outside of your normal life.

I think it's far higher than 1:4

I think you're probably right. It depends how you define abuse. Traditionally abuse was seen as extreme physical stuff, but now abusive behaviour is much more widely defined.

If we're honest we've probably all behaved in a way that some posters on MN would describe as abusive at some point. That's not to downplay it, just that it's a spectrum and none of us is perfect.... the world isn't split into "baddie" abusers and "goodie" people like me.

Did I say I was surprised??? Also I have been brought up in an abusive environment and went on to be in an abusive relationship so thanks for labelling me as ‘dysfunctional’!!!!

Humans are naturally combative- as MN proves time and time again with unnecessarily nasty comments directed at other posters. The very first comment on this was accompanied by an eye roll emoji!! And many seem to have enjoyed piling on MarnieMarnie.

Arguably and ironically the pile on MarnieMarnie is itself abusive! We all have a much higher tendency to abusive behaviour - albeit low-level- than we care to admit!

I think also you do get men who really only turn on a set of behaviours when children arrive- when the woman is vulnerable. I have seen two of my colleagues in this position in six months.

Outwardly, they look naice and not dysfunctional. But their inner lives were anything but. Both of them were not hit, but the man was domestically abusive in deliberately neglecting the children. It was an effective method of control for women who had an expectation (and had) an equal relationship.

And we are all v naice and middle class. Their divorces look like everyone else's from the outside. There is a lot of shame heaped on women, chiefly by other women, regarding domestic abuse.

I was in emotionally abusive relationship for 2 years , so glad i'm out of it .

My best friend is in emotionally/financially abusive relationship for last 8 years and listening to what's going on to her is giving me flashbacks and PTSD, i tried everything but can't force her to leave ... Yet she is crying her eyes out at least once a week to me , her husband is absolutely vile.

Not sure what can i do except for listening and consoling her , after every "incident " she says she will leave him but never does .
I'm not sure how to help ... :(

Coercion and emotional abuse appear to be rile. I've experienced both myself. By an ex who considered themselves to be entirely decent and could not fathom that their behaviour was totally unacceptable. They genuinely thought it was reasonable to be relentlessly unpleasant, and it was ok to be angry if I was 'out for too long', etc. I believe when men go off women, they wont leave unless they have another woman lined up so they become nasty towards the person they're with and think it's justified because that person has 'let them down' by going out of their favour.

This is spot on.

I wish more women understood this and they took it as a serious warning sign when their partners start to behave in certain ways towards them. Because it means they’re now in a relationship with a man who no longer likes them - and that’s a dangerous place especially knowing how many men would rather kill or abuse their partner instead of just simply leaving.

That’s why when a guy’s attitude towards me begins to be unpleasant I get out quickly. No one is perfect but you can usually tell the difference between someone having a bad day / a moment and someone who is losing affection for you and quietly resentful of your presence.

There’s usually nothing you can do to get back in “their favour”, unless you want to bend over backwards and attend to all their whims and who wants to do that? And even then they’ll still not fully go back to how they used to feel about you, and you’ll be forever on edge trying to keep them sweet. So it’s definitely best to just exit the situation if you can.

I had a friend whose (now ex) partner treated her so badly towards the end of their 2 year relationship : openly cheating on her, withholding physical affection, threatening violence, being violent, making comments
about her weight (she was size 8 btw) but she just wouldn’t leave him. It was like she believed because he hadn’t walked out, there was still something there. But it was clear to me it was because he had nowhere else to go, and it’s much cheaper to share a flat in London than to live on your own. It only ended when he eventually found somewhere else to live.

This is exactly it.

I don’t think it helps when posters come on with a holier than thou ‘I wouldn’t let it happen to me’ attitude. Or that it only happens to the ‘lower classes’.

It blames the victim and makes them feel inadequate. It makes the assumption that the woman is weak and foolish to be in the situation. Not the fault of the abuser.

the class thing is a more subtle thing and plays to all our worse instincts. People who worry about social status ( which let’s face it, is all of mumsnet) feel embarrassed that it’s happening to them. This makes it harder to come forward. Ironically, the posters claiming it would never happen to them because they are ‘educated’ are exactly the type who would find it harder to call out the abuse and admit it was happening.

@Swizzlersandtwizzlers that is a fascinating viewpoint.

Some men would prefer to kill or abuse their partner rather than just leave. It’s such an odd dynamic.

youve actually opened my eyes to how the my marriage ended. He’d got fed up of me and wanted to leave for someone much younger ( and I was mid 30’s at the time). But somehow he was too embarrassed to admit he didn’t love me anymore.

And also just to add to my previous post, no-one knew my friends partner was abusive. Her family loved him and most of her friends didn’t know anything about his cheating and violence. It’s a cliche, but so much abuse is hidden. I seem to attract people who want to share things with me that they don’t tell others, so I get to find out a lot others don’t.

There’s also things I notice that others may not - a friend of mine is an unhealthy relationship but it’s hard to point it out to her. Especially as I seem to be the only person who’s picked up on it.

She relocated to her boyfriends town several years ago and lives in a one bed flat by herself and struggled financially for many years with the initial costs of deposit, letting fees and furnishing it . All the while he’s been living with his family saving rent basically which is fine but he comes to hers every single day after work so he gets the benefit of her flat without actually paying for it.

It took years for to even muster up the courage to ask him to contribute towards the grocery bill since he eats most of his meals there. He will start arguments with her about her past before she met him, grilling her for information on exes etc. Her social circle now consists of him and his family while he has his own friends separate from her. Her family live quite far away and he does “let” her see them when she visits, so they’ve probably not noticed. She keeps asking him when they can buy a house together which is sad since he can’t even commit to renting with her now after a decade of her living in his town.

I’ve stopped asking to meet up with her because there’s always an excuse. Yet she’ll make sure she attends the events of any of the females in his family. Even if we talk too long on the phone I can tell he gets sulky so i don't call anymore.

He’s actually a very friendly guy in real life and does have some good qualities, but I do think he’s overly controlling and has deliberately and strategically invested far less in their relationship.

Although IME most of the friends with abusive partners are from my working class hometown, as opposed to my uni friends - this particular couple are both well educated professionals who come from seemingly “normal” two- parent close knit families.

So many abusive or unhealthy relationships go under the radar across all sections of society. I definitely believe that 1 in 4 figure.

Anecdotally, the higher up the food chain/ more ‘Captain of Industry’ types and their biddable wives are the ones that I’m more aware of.

Abuse is utterly classless.

I got to know a chap who was renting my neighbours cottage. He’d done some maintenance for her over the years. He was living there alone, and going through some kind of treatment for cancer which finally caused his demise.

He was married. His wife walked out on him wearing only the clothes on her back. She disappeared for several months before even letting their daughter know where she was. (I think daughter knew she was safe…)

He said “Oh, I don’t know why she left me. I mean, I allowed her to work and I took her out for dinner once a month…”

My abuse was in its infancy, and it’s only on reflection that I look back at a man who so abused his wife and daughter that he died alone.