Abuse is everywhere

[Eastwestt]

Cheating, lying, financial abuse, emotional abuse etc is so common, I’m actually shocked to come across any relationship that doesn’t feature abuse.

Not sure why I’m posting. It’s just something I have very depressingly realised lately.

Friends, colleagues, relatives etc - the experiences are countless. From all walks of life. Including my own experiences of men too.

I'm inclined to agree with you @DuckDuck1234 but its a hard thing to say without sounding like victim blaming.
I think its true that many survivors don't tell others what is happening, so we may not really know the prevalence of DA in our immediate circles.
But I also think some situations predispose to abuse - and to women being stuck in abuse- so you will find some groups having it more than others.
Also, that 1 in 4 is a lifetime risk, and is an average so some women may experience one abusive relationship and are able to safely end it quite quickly, while others may have several, and not be able to safely leave.

Again, being able to safely leave is not to do with somehow being better or more educated. But having money, or a parent with a big house the other end of the country, or being a native English speaker, or free of addiction will all increase your chances of safely leaving.

"In an abused female's Utopia, what would I like to happen, for their to be communities whereby women chose to live alongside other women, in homes and areas which are segregated without men, and yes, some women, are that damaged whereby they feel they could live without another male in their lives."

I would love a women-only town and would move there immediately if such a thing was available near me!

I don't consider myself an 'abuse survivor', though my last relationship of nearly 10 years was emotionally abusive for about half of that time, and I am currently taking time to recover from the damage it did to my confidence and world view. (One of the tools I'm using to aid my healing is MN and reading about others' experiences to help make sense of mine.) It wasn't abuse at the criminal level and he was never actually physically violent. It was all more behaviour which should be widely accepted as anti social - it IS considered anti social when directed at strangers - but seems to be considered reasonable and acceptable to men when directing it at partners - shouting, silent treatment, nasty words, name calling, eye rolling and nasty facial expressions, being left out of things, withdrawal of all physical contact, shutting down any attempts to talk about the issues, more shouting, leaving with no explanation but demanding I say exactly where I'm going and for how long and shouting if I'm not back on time, being always expected to do exactly what he wanted but he would feel perfectly ok to say no me and again shut down any attempts to point out the hypocrisy etc etc.

I am vaguely worried about misandry creeping in and the fact that, at the moment, I feel I would be happy to never see or have to interact with a man ever again. And it's been a year and a half since my awful relationship ended and I still feel like that! But mostly I think I am finally seeing the light on men after 50 years of genuinely believing that having one as a partner is normal and necessary.

Yes, very valid point about statistics including the lifetime risk of abuse. So one woman could experience abuse for a very short period and manage to leave safely due to other protective factors in her life, while another woman could be stuck in an abusive relationship for years.

So it's true that I have no idea if any of my female relatives ever had an abusive boyfriend. Maybe they did. But if so they then left and now have safe partners.

Also it could be 1 man abusing e.g. 10 women in his lifetime. I guess what I mean is that there may be fewer abusive men in the world than some posters here believe. A small minority of 'serial abusers' could be responsible for a majority of the abuse cases.

In any case, I will definitely be passing down the advice I received from my granny/mum/aunts. Always have 'running away money' and somewhere to go, even if you've been in a dream relationship that's lasted 50 years.

what I mean is that there may be fewer abusive men in the world than some posters here believe

I couldn't disagree more.
I think that abuse is rife but hidden.
What @Superlambaanana describes is what I think many men use to control women into doing that 84% of domestic tasks.
Then we have the rape stats which are shocking.
The headlines about institutional abuse currently in the media in MH facilities.
Met police/ police, the appalling attitudes to women and the messages sent in their WhatsApp groups.
The issue is that normal men fall over themselves to say NAMALT in response when actually what we need is for them to recognise that SomeMenAreLikeThat and what can we do about it.
Those violent boys/men are killing other boys/ men on a daily basis also but no one bat's an eyelid about that either.

I do agree, @Iamnocook , that there is a systemic disregard for the seriousness of abuse. Many people (men, women, police, law officials...) dismiss it as exaggerated and/or unimportant or, even worse, just a joke.

However, someone who closes their eyes to abuse isn't necessarily themselves an abuser. Take rape, for example. If 10 women are raped, does it follow that there are 10 rapists out there? I would argue not. There might in fact just be the one rapist who is never stopped. Rapes aren't reported, those reported aren't investigated, those investigated aren't taken to trial, those tried aren't convicted etc.

My view is that it is similar with abuse. Several women could be abused by one man, just at different points in time.

I wish the justice system took abuse of all forms a lot more seriously and that there were much harsher penalties given out. It boggles my mind that a convicted rapist can be out on the streets again after only a couple of years, if that. So many lives can be ruined by just one despicable person left to roam free.

I didn't know the female suicide rate was three a week. With men it was 80 a week last time I saw statistics, which is a stark contrast. The much higher rate of male suicide doesn't necessarily have anything to do with women but it does make me question whether men have it as great as many people claim they do.

Regarding DV stats, men are supposedly much less likely to report. That may be why social studies find significantly higher numbers of female abusers than crime statistics. I remember a fairly recent one where they asked both sexes if they'd ever been a victim/abuser. What they found is that the number of women claiming to have assaulted their partner was much higher than the number of men claiming to have been assaulted - which seemingly supports this claim of men being too ashamed to report.

• Half of male victims (49%) fail to tell anyone they are a victim of domestic abuse and are two and a half times less likely to tell anyone than female victims (19%).
• 11% of male victims (7.2% women) have considered taking their life due to partner abuse. The charity has seen an increase in calls regarding suicide ideation over the pandemic period and beyond.
• 66% of the men who call the ManKind Initiative helpline have never spoken to anyone before about the abuse they are suffering and 64% would not have called if the helpline was not anonymous.
• One in 6-7 men and one in 4 women will be a victim of domestic abuse in their lifetime.
• Of domestic abuse crimes recorded by the police, 25% were committed against men.
• Only 4.7% of victims of domestic abuse being supporting by local domestic services are men according to SafeLives data. This highlights how few men are being supported for local domestic abuse services.

https://mankind.org.uk/statistics/statistics-on-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse/

Not true.

• The male suicide rate was 16.1 per 100,000*, compared to a female suicide rate of 5.3 per 100,000*.

https://www.samaritans.org/about-samaritans/research-policy/suicide-facts-and-figures/latest-suicide-data/#:~:text=England%202022&text=The%20overall%20suicide%20rate%20was,rate%20(23.1%20per%20100%2C000).

And be aware not all suicides are officially classed as suicides, especially if the family push for it. I have personal experience of this.

The much higher rate of male suicide doesn't necessarily have anything to do with women but it does make me question whether men have it as great as many people claim they do.

Men inflict violence on themselves as well as others, the methods are usually far more violent also.
Male suicide has rocketed with addiction , particularly cocaine use.
Also violent crimes and RTAs

Are you a man @FatPrincess?
Saying yeah but men doesn't change the facts.

@FatPrincess just to clarify 3 women a week die by suicide as a direct result of domestic violence/ abuse. I think suicide figures are far higher among general population.

on the male figures, I think there are huge caveats to these…

25% of cases might be against men, but I’d say a fair amount of these will be same sex couples. In addition, it’s very common for male abusers to put in counter claims. Or for there to be cases of ‘reactive abuse’ where women hit back after sustained abuse.

im sure there are men in abusive situations and women are perpetrators. ( as someone pointed out in a previous thread, there are so many examples of manipulative mothers or relatives on AIBU) but the numbers dwarf female victims

@FatPrincess, I am glad you are offering a counterargument.
That said, I understood that women make more suicide attempts but are less successful.
I have been slapped etc by girlfriends, it is not comparable to a man hittinng a woman. Equally, it os far more okay for a woman to take her annoyances out on her man as, while very stressful, it is part of the job.
That said, the angelic portrayal of women on this thread has bordered on excessive.

I've not seen any real counter argument to the endemic violence to women, girls and mainly young men on this or any other thread.
Just whataboutery

It's fact that this is happening it doesn't go away because a woman once slapped you, also unacceptable behaviour.

@Iamnocook, it is not a counter argument. I am agreeing with you.

Why constantly focus on the behaviour of women then?
What is the answer to male violence and abuse?
" what about women though" isn't the answer
It's a deflection tactic

I've seen it so many times in abusive men...

Sorry for phrasing it badly.
My point is that women acting llike that to a man is not the same as vice-versa. A man hitting a woman and a woman hitting a man is not typically comparable. I am not going to agree with an implication that women are overwhelmingly angelic, but that is not relevant either way.

I haven't seen anyone imply women are angelic.
No one is , we all have our faults
I don't condone any form of abuse or violence.
There's a sneaky undertone of " she deserved it" in your posts so I'm going to leave it there.

I was replying to a post that was focussing on mens' suffering. My reply was that it was not comparable, as there is a massive imbalance. People are crap to each other, but clearly, very clearly, there is often a massive imbalance when the man is mistreating the woman. I was not arguing with you, I was specifically saying to the poster I was replying to that even as a man, I did not accept her pro-man argument.

I think misogyny is so intrinsic and internalised in our culture that many many women do not realise that they are being exploited and/or abused, nor do they see it - or rather, allow themselves to see it - in others.

Lots of women see it accidentally, and wish they could un-see it - these ones become the handmaidens/police other women who try to speak out.

Not true.

As I said, I'm going by the last figure I saw which was a couple years back (see attached screenshot).

@FatPrincess just to clarify 3 women a week die by suicide as a direct result of domestic violence/ abuse.

Ah OK, that makes sense. Three a week did sound a bit low.

Are you a man?

Um, the clue's in the name.... 😂😂😂

And he did expect me to do all the housework and cooking. And if he cooked something it was like he expected not just praise but gushing thanks and to be 'owed and repaid' for his Herculean efforts. And I put up with it. Tried harder and harder to please the worse it got.

And yet, he wasn't all bad. He was thoughtful and hardworking and personable and engaging. My friends and family thought he was great. In fact he was great, until he went off me, and instead of leaving, he made my life hell for 5 years.

🤷‍♀️

To those who have taken a topic about abuse of women by men, and tried to derail the conversation with nonsense stuff like 'domestic abuse is 50-50', and 'it's probably only one or two men doing all the raping and abusing' and 'women are just as bad' and 'women are bringing it on by nagging men' and yadda yadda fucking yadda - please just go away. This is an interesting topic and you are taking up post space with a pointless old trope - which I know will never go away - there will always be 'patriarchy deniers' and male apologists (I do wish so many of them weren't women but there you are). We get it - you think men are great and not abusers and everyone is flawed and actually it's probably the women who are the main problem really. Ok, we hear you. We disagree with you (because you are delusional and wrong). But we don't want to engage in a debate with you because it's like arguing with a trump supporter - they'll vote for him even if he's actually dead - there's just no point.

Has he gone away @Superlambaanana ?

I know abusive men like this tend to not let go of a power imbalance they enjoyed.

And what on earth have male suicide stats got to do with a thread about domestic abuse perpetrated by men?! Gaslighting at its finest.

He has. Thankfully I haven't heard anything from him for quite a few months now. The end of the relationship was a very slow drawn out process though. I tried to end it several times over the space of about 3 years, but he did keep reeling me back in. I think what finally happened was that someone at his gym turned his head so I expect he's probably with her now. If he is, I just hope he doesn't go off her after a few years!

I agree.

Every step of the way it has been a fight for women's rights, for fairer treatment and equality.

To say thanks to our forebeares who put their lives on the line for the right to vote, to own property, to have education, for the men not to have the right to beat and rape their wives during marriage. It's been a fight which I fear has stalled due to women accepting less, it's in our DNA.

The women that protect men's advantages and the men who try to shut down conversations about inequality are especially saddening. I love mumsnet for it's unification of women, a space where we discuss without the pressures of the male viewpoint making us feel ungrateful, how men like to do that.

It's no surprise that just as any body of society that asks for better treatment whether it be the trade unions of the past, the sufferagettes, racism, homosexuality these discussions are silenced as much as possible untill such time when they have to be heard.

Women should not be silenced, the abuse of women is world wide, the use of women is worldwide, men will never give up their advantages unless we speak out, discuss and understand.

@RedClearWater yes! You and some of the other, equally eloquent posters on here really make me want to burn my bra or start up an all women's book group and dance around naked like Fay Weldon's Big Women!

Ive always felt the red mist rise in the face of the inequities of our male dominated society. But I thought the issues were voting and property rights, jobs and pay, violence against women and so on. What i'm only now starting to fully understand is that it's also about a lot of much more subtle stuff - behaviours and norms which are so ingrained that women definitely don't identify them as abuse or even consider them a problem. Yet they are. How on earth do you persuade people that things could be better when the status quo suits so many?