Horrible row with DH, and I don’t know how to move forwards.

[Pinkswans]

DH and I have a three year old and a six month old. The six month old is going through a challenging sort of period where she seems desperate to be on the move but isn’t quite there yet - lots of hair grabbing and grabbing skin on your neck and twisting and squirming. It isn’t her fault but in all honesty spending time with her isn’t particularly enjoyable. The three year old is easier in many ways but is sidelined because the baby is so demanding and he reacts to this.

I have been struggling with DH lately because things feel a bit chaotic. The house is a mess, it feels like we’re treading water.

So to give some context here, we were looking through some photos the other day and I saw a scarf I was wearing and said something like ‘wonder what happened to that.’ DH said it was under the stairs and I said pretty jovially that if he found it he’d get some brownie points. He then completely emptied under the stairs, bringing me the most random stuff - he found the scarf but there are now eleven bags of crap in the corner of the hall. We also unearthed DS’s old pushchair which he doesn’t go in now. This morning, DS was in a silly mood so I suggested he go with DH to put the pushchair in the garage (DH rents a garage in the village) it should have been a ten minute trip at most. Forty five minutes go by and meanwhile I’m dealing with a fussy, irritable baby and I get a photo from DH - he was on the park with DS.

it isn’t that I have an issue with them going to the park: of course I don’t. But what really upset me was the way it’s just assumed he can do what he wants when he wants. We’ve had weeks of this and I got really upset. I feel we aren’t parenting as a team at all, if I try to talk to him about a worry or issue with one of the children he gives me the brush off, anything ‘important’ like potty training and weaning are left to me (and both are going badly!)

The problem is I don’t know how to address it. When I try to talk to him he just gets defensive so how?

Absolutely, it is about considering other people and not just thinking about yourself.

I'm actually getting pissed off for OP with some of these ridiculous responses.

Also, my health visitor did indeed think I had PND. I went to counselling. They very quickly came to the conclusion that no, I didnt, I just had a shitty relationship.

It's just bloody rude.

He sounds SHIT! He gets to do whatever the fuck he wants, take the easy kid, leave you with the small ball of frustration on your own. He would drive me INSANE. I think I would lose my mind with such a useless twat.

Time to go nuclear tbh. You both had these kids, you both need to take responsibility for both of them. He doesn't get to fuck off to the pub, sleep on the sofa, not take night wakings and not feed his toddler. Disgraceful.

This is not a time for you to apologise BUT maybe take a step back, formulate a clear argument without insults or "you always do this or that" which is not constructive and then present that to him.

If he still doesn't see it? Chuck him out and put both kids in daycare for a break.

I've read all your posts OP but not the whole thread. I have a 6 year old and a 5 year old, but I remember the phase you are in like it was yesterday and it was brutal. If you are on your 6th wake up before 10pm then I hugely recommend you get a baby sleep consultant because that literally saved my sanity. If you think your husband is a good man then don't push him out for taking your son to the park without telling you (from what i've read it sounds like he is trying to do things that help).

Life improves so drastically with good sleep, you are in the toughest period - get help with the baby sleep. I felt so similar to you, but can honestly say now that things really do improve as they get older. x

Your post is lovely and kind but the OP has already stated that she is not depressed and even if she was, she wouldn't take meds and has no time for counselling, and she has also expressed irritation at being told what to do aka given well-meaning advice from mothers who have been there.

I think you need to ask for some downtime on Sundays for a bit x

LOL to the long poo at inconvenient time - soo familiar

I completely get how you feel but I think women are their own worst enemies. My dh did stuff like this all the time when I was at breaking point with a newborn. Things like popping out to buy nappies when we didn't need them, taking easier older children out 'to give me a break'. Looking back I don't think he planned to make it easier for himself. I think he just acted on impulse.
Going to the park isn't a big deal. It's just a big deal because you don't feel like you can do it. Small children are hard and you'll get through this phase and move on with your lives but my advice is to be more assertive and less emotional. Hand him both children tomorrow and tell him you need to pop to the shops. Don't leave instructions. Pretend you're not aware of the massive inconvenience you are creating. Just be breezy ' won't be long, do you want me to pick something up for you?'

There seems to be an awful lot of waiting around to see what your DH is doing. In this example you say you just wait at home (doing ??) until he shows up. Maybe just reframe it that he’s busy with the 3yo and crack on with whatever on your own? It was an extremely rare if DH and I were home at the same time due to working opposite days/hours until our kids were older at school. You don’t need two people to manage kids, you don’t need to wait around for anyone.

Do you have time away? That seems the real problem. Whether it’s work or a few hours to see a movie, just book that time and go. Even if breastfeeding, feed just before and you are okay for a few hours. Even if baby wants a feed a bit sooner they just have to wait, they won’t combust and you’ll be better for it.

@Pinkswans

' go away? Not you mummy? I don’t want you mummy? ' is not exactly hurling abuse at you is it ?

I thought he was f'ing and blinding at you, hence my question re a 3 year old's vocabulary.

You did know where they were when they were at the park, he sent you a photo - you could have said ' oh what a good idea ! we will be with you in 5 mins ' instead of sitting at home waiting for them - waiting for what -
had you a trip out planned ? No.

Were you going to hand over baby and a bottle and take yourself off for a walk - No.
Were you going to hand over baby and a bottle and go and wash your hair ? - No. Were you going to hand over baby and a bottle and go for a nap -
No - that's what you should have done.

Or you could have handed over baby, a bottle and a nappy and taken the sidelined child - your description and taken him out to soft play.

why are you sitting waiting for him? Go out. Make plans.

I wish I'd seen this earlier, @Pinkswans .

I'm right there with you. This is just him putting himself before you, not taking into account your feelings, and not caring about your feelings either.

All done with plausible deniability.

OP, I hope you are ok and are able to sift the kind posts from the posters who seem to be either a) unable to read all of the thread or b) determined to make a mum whose having a difficult time feel even worse.

I don't blame you for feeling like de-regging from MN. This thread has been full of attack, bitchiness and ignorance.

This isn't the sort of place MN should want to be.

OP I felt like this when my youngest was under one.

I remember noticing I hadn’t had a proper shower/hair wash for a while as I would wait for a window when both kids were settled and DH was un engaged in anything and then I’d inform him I was going to wash/shop/whatever. DH would just hand the baby to me to go and wash/wash the car/run or whatever. His driver wasn’t ‘is it convenient for the whole family’ so much as ‘I need this basic thing’

I started mimicking his behaviour and he was totally fine with it- he never expected me to do what I had been doing.

I think it’s different for dads and that you’re also 6mo post partum and tired as hell. It’s probably not anyone’s fault, can you get a break at all? A child free day and you’ll probably remember what it’s like to feel less tense- I remember just being hyper vigilant with a toddler & baby as I was always pre empting some sort of need (not my own…)

With the greatest of respect OP, you do seem very fraught and sensitive right now, which is also making you come across as defensive. You have been dismissive of suggestions that you might be depressed. You might be, you might not be, but it's worth checking symptoms of PND as it's not always obvious. One thing that stood out was your DS shouting abuse at you, so you left him at 5am. Did he actually shout abuse at you and did you take it personally? Or is that your interpretation. It's common with PND for mums to think that their kids don't love them. Also, counselling and CBT are excellent tools and you shouldn't be so dismissive of them.

I don't think that you're being entirely fair on your husband. It's not as though he pissed off for hours and you suggested it in the first place.

The way forward is to schedule time where you specifically get a break from your baby during the weekend and actually get out of the house alone or with your son. It's unreasonable to expect to control your husband's time to such a degree. It's absolutely not a problem that your DH hadn't made breakfast by 8am on a weekend. It's not unreasonable, however, to expect him to forgo nights out drinking when you are struggling in order to give you a break.

It seems to me that instead of expecting your DH to know exactly what you want and when and then take it out on him when he gets it wrong, you should instead tell him what you need and be specific and clear about times (I
E. I need this afternoon off from 1-3pm etc.

Leave the bags of crap for your DH to sort. Though, to be fair you told him there'd be brownie points if he found your scarf. So he did, as you very clearly indicated you wanted him to. Now he gets to put it all away 🤷‍♀️

You say you told them to go to the garage because your DS was 'being silly'. So your DH probably thought it was a good thing to get him out of the house and burning off some energy at the park? Why didn't you all go? Even if it was, as you thought, a quick trip to put the pushchair away. Even if you don't feel like it, go! If you hate it, go home, leave them there 🤷‍♀️

I would not be bound by carrying a grumpy six month old around constantly. No way would I be 'stuck' that way. If you've accepted that that is the way it is, then I get wanting to share the pain. I do. Isn't it better instead to just get on with it. YOU do what YOU need to do. Tell your DH that you are doing A today and then just do it. Take some time out with your DS and actually truly focus on him. Your DD will be fine. Don't sit back and mope over things that YOU need to change and CAN change.

And most importantly, consider how such a 'row' may sink into your little ones subconscious. Even if he doesn't quite now what you were fighting about, and even if you think he didn't hear, they kinda pick up on everything and for all he knows it's his fault for going to the park.

Decide what you really want here and take the steps to make it happen. You can! You are a mother of two children, you just haven't realised your true strength yet

Yes there you go, someone got it. I get you OP, he might have asked you are you ok for me to take DS to the park for an hour, what's our game plan, do you want to come home and we'll work out what we're doing with the kids... But he decides on park himself, you've no choice but probably to take the harder shift and await his next move without any say in who's doing what, just assumed you'll automatically be having the baby and Mumsnet has him down as a hero.

i think your husband is deliberately taking the path of least resistance so he can claim to be helping when he obviously isn’t pulling his weight. If I were you I’d probably get a bit more rigid about it and carve out chunks of time for him to spend with DS, DD, DS&DD together as well as some regular alone time for you. This would drive anyone nuts. Ignore the posters on here refusing to acknowledge the issue- for whatever reason there are sometimes irrational pile ons.

Good luck. Be firm.

So many of the posts you’re getting completely lack empathy. And I don’t know how anyone has the nerve to tell you how you should be feeling about your own baby when they clearly can’t begin to put themselves in your shoes.

I’m sorry you’re struggling so much- sleep deprivation paired with the constant responsibility of looking after baby is so overwhelming, there’s never a chance to recharge or feel human.

Can see why you’re feeling upset by the lack of reliability and communication from your partner.

Is there any way your partner could take the baby out the house for a walk while you have one on one time with your 3 year old?

Also sounds like your DD is having split nights, hopefully it’s a short lived phase- must be so exhausting. It might seem a stupid suggestion that wouldnt work for you and your family, but could you try a later bedtime for her? Maybe your partner could have her for an hour once your DS is in bed, and you can try rest for that hour.

I sympathise OP, I have kids that same age and it is hard work, we are weaning and potty training too and it’s rough, especially when one or both of them aren’t sleeping and you don’t get a break.

But it kind of sounds like no one can win with you. You say you need a break and one on one time with your 3 year old but when someone suggested swapping kids you said that’s not what you want. I think you need to spell out to your DH exactly what you need and make sure he knows it’s non negotiable.

My kids have the same gap and at those ages it was the hardest combination. I remember waiting for the weekend and by that point I was so done. It's so lonely being home with babies. It's lovely but you have no time to think about the loveliness because someone always needs something! He needs to be sharing the weekend childcare and chores 50/50 with you and letting you have some time to yourself. It isn't unreasonable to expect this. My husband has just done things this way without being asked because they are also his kids. Also your mental health is important and he really needs to help you feel OK again x x

I get it OP, my DH was the same. I really resented the freedom he just took without a thought and he never really got it, he has always been really independent and thought 'well if she wants me home she'll ask me but she hasn't asked so no reason not to stay/continue' whereas I operate by 'oh my task/event/whatever is done I'll be expected home can't stay'

i remember everyone thinking he was amazing for renovating all weekend and doing jobs for family members but I would be left again with the babies, even when he brought the older out with him I felt like he was avoiding the hardest job.

honestly though I was as much to blame because I wasn't communicating I had to be black and white because we weren't wired the same so then I started saying 'dh if you're going out can you come straight home after, need a break from little one'

you also need to just leave with older kid, we're conditioned as women to be subservient and put ourselves last but it sounds like he's not asking that, my DH was baffled and would say 'but if you want to do it then just say' or 'I didn't know you wanted me home, why didn't you say'

you can avoid the angst a bit by being clear about what your expectations are, it's ok to say that you need a break from little one and are going out, don't feel guilty or think you're taking the piss, think like a man and make what you want as important as what everyone else wants.

Reflect on what you're doing because you think you 'should' and if you're annoyed with him because you think he 'should' know not to do it. He doesn't know what your expectations are because you don't tell him before he has the chance to meet them.

P.S. In my experience my son loved his little sister but did get very angry with me. Remember that they express themselves most to the person they feel safest with because they know you will never not be there for them, he trusts you the most x x

Your partner just randomly disappears throughout the day? That is odd. Argument aside, have you considered talking to your GP? Could you be suffering from postnatal depression? I'm not saying your concerns aren't valid but sometimes hormones/emotional load can make us view things in an overly negative way.

This sounds like a communication issue.
He's probably thinking keeping the 3yr old out of your way for a bit will make things easier for you, while you're at home desperate for him to return so he can help with the baby.

Sit down with him and explain why you were upset this morning, and what you need from him. He's not a mind reader, he doesn't know which actions will upset you and which won't.
Have a proper think about how you can work together to get through this tough stage and make a plan. Explain you want him to do more with potty training etc, ask him to help.

Communication really is key