Horrible row with DH, and I don’t know how to move forwards.

[Pinkswans]

DH and I have a three year old and a six month old. The six month old is going through a challenging sort of period where she seems desperate to be on the move but isn’t quite there yet - lots of hair grabbing and grabbing skin on your neck and twisting and squirming. It isn’t her fault but in all honesty spending time with her isn’t particularly enjoyable. The three year old is easier in many ways but is sidelined because the baby is so demanding and he reacts to this.

I have been struggling with DH lately because things feel a bit chaotic. The house is a mess, it feels like we’re treading water.

So to give some context here, we were looking through some photos the other day and I saw a scarf I was wearing and said something like ‘wonder what happened to that.’ DH said it was under the stairs and I said pretty jovially that if he found it he’d get some brownie points. He then completely emptied under the stairs, bringing me the most random stuff - he found the scarf but there are now eleven bags of crap in the corner of the hall. We also unearthed DS’s old pushchair which he doesn’t go in now. This morning, DS was in a silly mood so I suggested he go with DH to put the pushchair in the garage (DH rents a garage in the village) it should have been a ten minute trip at most. Forty five minutes go by and meanwhile I’m dealing with a fussy, irritable baby and I get a photo from DH - he was on the park with DS.

it isn’t that I have an issue with them going to the park: of course I don’t. But what really upset me was the way it’s just assumed he can do what he wants when he wants. We’ve had weeks of this and I got really upset. I feel we aren’t parenting as a team at all, if I try to talk to him about a worry or issue with one of the children he gives me the brush off, anything ‘important’ like potty training and weaning are left to me (and both are going badly!)

The problem is I don’t know how to address it. When I try to talk to him he just gets defensive so how?

Honestly DH can go to them if they wake up.
I bathed in the evenings , absolutely non negotiable and that hour was bliss.

You say you don't want a break but I actually felt so much better for it.
You are burnt out and taking a break is the only way to recover.
Firm word with your DH.
One thing mine did was say " but I thought you liked being with the DC"
Holy shit I have no idea how he is still alive
I realised that men put themselves first and I had to stop waiting for him to be reasonable and take what I needed.
Be more "man"
I'm going for a bath
I'm going out
I'm eating, can you help DC
I'm getting my hair cut, going for a run, sleep

@adriftinadenofvipers at the risk of being accused of being ‘snippy’ - I will talk to DH when I want to. At the moment, I’m shattered, I’ve had a horrible day and it really isn’t the right moment. In all honesty, I probably won’t bother because he won’t hear it and it will just turn into a row.

I don’t think I reacted particularly badly to your post - I simply said I personally find the comparison (not you personally) a very offensive one. You say you’re too long in the tooth to be offended but I have to say you’re acting remarkably offended and I am genuinely sorry for that but I am going to keep calling out that comparison when I see it. It really is very hurtful to be told you’re no better than a cheating spouse.

Thank you @Froglett101 . To be honest I am starting to feel very judged, not just by posters here but by DH as well by admitting less than slavish joy at spending time with her. Something I am finding very frustrating at the moment if if I try to discuss a concern about one of the children with him he just brushes it away and so I do feel I’m parenting alone really.

I don't think you are depressed, you came on stressed and despite some nasty comments you sound like you are feeling a bit calmer which is pretty remarkable.

One thing I would say is don't set your standards too high for what you can get done, life can be chaotic with little ones so sometimes we just have to do the essentials and leave the rest. If you are trying to do the essentials just ignore this.

What would you like to happen OP? What would be an ideal plan going forward?

but by DH as well by admitting less than slavish joy at spending time with her.

This is what mine did to justify his trotting off

Hi OP. I’m sorry things are so tough right now. The year or so after our second was born was probably the toughest time in DH’s and my marriage. It was in ways a different situation to yours but, in common, not feeling like a team, and me feeling like he really wasn’t communicating with me. In hindsight I wasn’t really communicating with him either.

What it took to improve things - well, just that, the communication. Your baby is breastfed but your DH could easily take her out for a morning or afternoon at that age. They can go quite a few hours without milk if it’s not on offer by 6mo. I know your DS is saying he wants Daddy but he’s just lashing out and I’m sure if the two of you had one on one time he would be delighted, and it sounds like some more time bonding with your DS would be really good for you as well. I get it.

Ok - This is the point that I think you need to home in on and raise with your DH.

Firstly - he will struggle to bond with his daughter if he doesn't take on some of the hands on stuff at this age. It really does matter that he isn't looking after her to the same degree as his son.
Next - use your point above about being tired when you want to spend time with DS, DS is picking up on this and neither of you are finding the time spent together is of benefit.
If your DH stepped up did some of the middle of the night stuff and looked after your DD more, you would be more rested and be able to do more both with your DS (and he would be less likely to shout abuse at you too because his mummy would be a happy mummy) and with your DD and with your DH.

He needs to step up first and foremost.

Also, if he takes stuff out from under the stairs, he puts it back before he moves on to the next thing. He stops leaving his mess for someone else to fix or tidy up. He's setting a very poor example for his DS.

As for the potty training - unless there is a pressing requirement to have your DS potty trained, I would wait until the weather gets warmer and your son can learn in the late spring/summer time. That might be one less thing that you have to tidy up and monitor at least for the immediate timeframe.

Chin up @Pinkswans - these tough days will pass. You're in the middle of a tunnel at the moment, at the darkest point. The light at the end of the tunnel, you'll see it soon enough.

I’d like us to both parent both children. I don’t want to always ‘get’ DD while DH goes off with DS.

I would like DH to keep me informed of his movements, I don’t mean to the minute but just things like ‘I’m leaving work now, should be about another hour’ ‘I’m in London on the 16th’ sort of information.

I’d like some acknowledgement for how difficult broken nights are.

I’d like him to talk to me about parenting and support, not just dismiss everything.

I get what you are saying OP. My DH could have phases of this. especially the 'well I got up with DC' when actually getting up means putting them in front of a screen and going back to sleep. Not actually getting the breakfast or a drink or dressed. That all waits until I am there.

I think you need to break it down into different stages to make progress. As much as your DH SHOULD see what he's avoiding there, he probably won't.

Your DH can and should be able to deal with both kids at once. So make a plan for yourself to:

1. send him out with both kids and
2. you go out for yourself for a decent amount of time

figure out when it SUITS YOU to fit them into your week and then make it happen.

Seems to me part of your resentment is your DH says 'can I go for a drink with friends' and then stays out super late, when you don't get to do anything.

So start arranging things.

I started with commitments out of the house as that was clearer. So I'm going to an exercise class, or I'm going to meet my friend for dinner.

A few times over the years the thing I had arranged has fallen through - I missed my exercise class at your stage, faffing settling the baby and leaving too late. But I went out anyway, bought a magazine and a coffee sat on a bench in the park in the sunshine for the hour I'd have been at the class.

I arranged stuff that I felt best fitted with the kids and their routines. As DH was rubbish at that stuff, so I set up things where I'd go out while the baby was napping and he did the next bit when they woke. As if I left him to settle for a nap he'd miss it and then I'd pay the price that night.

I'd also start sending him out with the baby and the three year old. So for this morning what would have annoyed me is he could have taken the baby to the park too and given you a break. But you suggested he just take the three year old. Next time tell him to take them both!

The scarf thing - I get it's annoying.BUT - it does sound like he was trying to make you smile. That's a good thing.

You don't HAVE to sort it all out. Get him to help you. Or just say - hey, would you pack those bags back away please.

I think at this stage Dad's can lean into the relationship with the older one. It's nice to be wanted.

AND they can be guilty of hiding away from the tough bits of life with a baby doing 'useful' (read: easier) things with the older child, or for the house, or whatever.

Start giving him time with the baby - and GO OUT when you do, so he can figure it out himself and build that relationship (and take times when it's hard).

So also start taking out the three year old yourself and leaving the baby with DH. Some one on one time will start to rebuild that relationship too.

Lastly - maybe get some advice on the baby. Around this stage DC2, previously a champion sleeper, started waking hourly every other night. Rather than ride it out as I'd done with DC1. (which took two years and nearly broke me) I called Ann Caird at Nurturing Sleep (she was recommended on here) https://nurturingsleep.co.uk/ she was amazing and insightful and a few sessions helped me turn things right around.

My only regret is that I didn't call her with DC1!

Yes- get one of these…the jumperoo saved my life!

Thank you @Froglett101 . To be honest I am starting to feel very judged, not just by posters here but by DH as well by admitting less than slavish joy at spending time with her. Something I am finding very frustrating at the moment if if I try to discuss a concern about one of the children with him he just brushes it away and so I do feel I’m parenting alone really.

So give him some quality time with her - see how he finds it.

My DH is never more pro-active as a parent, or appreciative of everything I do, than after I've been away overnight for a few nights.

So I suggest you start plotting that ASAP too - in the next few months an over night away for you is doable and by the sounds of it much needed.

Just to say OP, I have an extremely clingy DD, second child almost 2 and have also spent the day shouting at DH and feeling like I barely get a moment to myself. He didn't do such a bad thing but it was the straw.

Lots of other things going on as well but it's just hard being the one they cling to.

I get where you're coming from.

Would it be at all possible to write down those exact points and talk about them with your DH?

Or maybe work on getting him to take the baby for awhile first and then discuss after some respite?

Sorry if I've missed it but.is the reason he hasn't been taking the baby because he hasn't offered or because you haven't asked? Or is it because he's always busy with DS?

I fully agree with this. OP take care of yourself. You’re allowed to feel fragile & frustrated & want a space to vent & I’m sorry so much of this thread has given you a kicking instead of support.

I understand OP, my baby was so unsettled in those first few months too and was only ever happy for a few mins at a time so it was really hard. She never ever wanted to be put down but also wasn't happy to just sit on my lap. I used to count the minutes until my DP got home from work so I completely understand why you're upset and annoyed about him constantly not coming back on time/not being around whenever he wants.

I see a lot of threads on here where it's clear some people have never experienced this kind of baby. I think it can be hard to comprehend until you've actually been around a baby like this.

Hang in there, my little one was so much happier once she was able to crawl, not long to go x

^^This!

I don't understand why pp haven't got what the OP was saying from her first post!

Also second the recommendations for a jumperoo!! Dd loved hers

Hold up - you are upset with him for taking your 3 year old to the park? For 45 minutes?

Seriously you read some horror stories on here about how men treat women but this is not it!

Parenting can at some times be so so hard so I totally sympathise - it sounds like you need a break and some tlc. Talk to your partner xx

Thus stage of parenting, oof it’s hard. Trying to out parent each other, play martyr or perfect parent, well that never ends well.

OP I get it. My first baby was really difficult. Everyone else's baby the same age would be all calm and lovely. Mine would scream, whine, want to be held, rocked, would never sleep unless rocked. There absolutely were times where in the middle of the night I wanted to hurl her out the window.

So I get the clingy baby. Nobody else got it at the time, was always angelic if I was out with anyone else, got comments on how 'good' she was and nobody could understand what I was so stressed about. Had my second and she was literally calm as a cucumber. Oh... So THIS is what all my friends experienced with their babies and why everyone thought I was mental for having breakdowns every second day! Just goes to show some babies really are just difficult, and people DON'T GET IT unless they've had one.

My age gap is similar to yours and things were immensely difficult around the time you say, when baby was starting to want to move but couldn't quite... Constantly frustrated... We were also potty training an absolutely bat shit toddler at the time too. We nearly divorced.
The smallest things drive you INSANE because life is just insane at that point. And of course the baby always plays up when the toddler needs you and vice versa.

Anyway just wanted to send solidarity and say it gets better.

My one suggestion is to give DH specific instructions about exactly what you want him to do to help. And don't be afraid to walk out the door without feeding / dressing the kids or preparing him in any way. It's hard to do but actually the best way for them to see how they can help is to make them do it all.

"DH I need you to get up and get both kids out of bed, feed them, dress them, get the change bag ready and take them out as if I am not here and I don't want to have to help at all."

"DH if you go out please text me if you're going to be more than x amount of time".

"DH I need you to do all the night feeds up until X time so I can get a chunk of unbroken sleep".

Tell him how you're feeling and why it would help if he did these things. It sounds extreme but relationship counselling was a game changer for us. It helped us communicate better and see things from each others perspective. With young children you do need that communication but honestly it's a huge strain on your relationship at those ages so you're not crazy or mental and you won't be alone having a breakdown over 45 mins at the park.

YANBU

OP - will confess to not having read the whole thread but have read all your posts. The thing that comes across most strongly is how much you are overwhelmed exhausted and struggling right now. Im so sorry.

I’m sure your husband could be more thoughtful/help more etc as is almost always the case, but it also seems as though your best bet to feel better yourself, get more help from him and inch your way to the other side of this moment in time (and you will get there), is to try and be truly honest with yourself about how very tough this is right now, accept that you’re acting from a place of overwhelm, openly discuss this with your husband clearly and simply, and put the focus back solely on you and what you need. Allow him to offer the help to facilitate that (and if not you’ll still have figured out a bit more of what you need and you’ll know you need to find another way to get it in the immediate term).

Eg. Rather than “You didn’t do this” or “why the hell did you do that?” or “I need you to do x, y, z”… Instead try and think this through leaving him out of it and focusing on yourself ie. “I” statements… eg. “I need two hours away from the baby today“ (or two hours away from the children!); “I need a day at the weekend when I have the flexibility to come and go as I need to, for my own sanity, whether that’s to go to the shop, or take DS to the park, or stay at home all day - I need to know that I can be me in the moment that one day a week and I don’t have to factor in what you may/may not be doing. Is that something I can count on your support with?”, “I’m afraid DS hates me and I feel devastated and hopeless about it - I really need to be able to do bathtime/trip to the library/ whatever just me and him at a regular time and day at the weekends”, “I absolutely cannot function while I’m this exhausted, I need a minimum two hour nap every Saturday afternoon until I feel more myself”.

Am not saying these are the ‘right’ feelings or actions (yours might be entirely different), but am trying to just provide examples of how this might work. It sounds as though you are badly in need of a handhold, hug, good cry, massive glass of wine, 12 hour sleep, lovely meal etc But what you’re doing is holding it all in, climbing the walls, getting angry and resentful about what’s going on around you (understandably), and all the while getting so tightly wound that neither you nor anyone else has a chance of giving you what you need.

its harder to be vulnerable than to be angry sometimes, but there’s no shame in feeling any or all of the above, and many other things besides. You’re in a tough spot but you can get through it. It will just be easier and create less lasting damage if you can bear to feel your feelings and use them to try to figure out what YOU want to do so YOU can feel better. I think you’ll be amazed how much easier it is to be heard when you really know what you’re saying (and I don’t think the bottom line is the park or the pub - it’s that you need a second a week to be you, and to sometimes choose whether that is with or without a child in tow).

sending 💐 and hoping you feel better soon.

Op, would you have been so upset if he’d taken the 6mon old? Maybe you would have preferred that. If that’s the case, just ask him to do that more often.

If you’re having broken nights sleep and are exhausted then you should really be sleeping when the DC are. Get off MN and go to bed!

Either your H will get on board and surprise you or not - sadly you can’t ultimately control what he does. But if you can find a way to get a bit more of what you need right now, then that can become a (super annoying) problem for another day when you are feeling a bit stronger.