January 2024 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie
Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826?amp%3Bascsubtag=mnforum-

Sending love to @monkeyfrommanchester for tomorrow 💕

I ll be thinking of you monkey and mm , hope the day goes smoothly x

Do not be hard on yourself. Some of us on here have asd and all the other stuff - I have more letters after my name now than when I graduated college I can tell you but we all say off the cuff things not thinking. You need to work on being apologetic to yourself and dont worry about the rest of us here, we get it and any feedback you get be it for your situation or wording is out of mutual understanding and respect :)

@MonkeyfromManchester thoughts with you tomorrow.

Thanks @Genuineweddingone. Promise I didn't mean to offend - and I do have ASD and am exposed to some pretty awful language, both directed at me and also not (I'm about as white as a very white thing and spent quite a while trying to explain to my mother why it's really not acceptable to call people of colour some very unacceptable slurs. Did not work). But I really don't want to offend or mean to so it's kind of you to understand that. Also grateful to the person who had the post deleted because sometimes we need that, and I do apologise for the offence.

Monkey, thoughts to you. Once it's over it'll be under the bed. Not saying it'll be gone but you'll have crossed one bridge so that's one fewer to cross.

@Sicario
Thank you for your kind wishes. I’m loving the idea of mace. Pretty sure my SIL would like a can.

@user8800 @Ydkiml @CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau and everyone
thanks so much for good wishes.

I’m knackered. I was trying to finish work at 3pm yesterday, but then a client springs something urgent on me. Actually, not urgent, but stressful! And they knew I had family arriving. Dolts. 🤣

Awake since 4am. Will be having an early night tonight!

Great to see SIL and nephews who arrived like a whirlwind yesterday. She's stressed about seeing her ex-husband (toxic Golden Boy brother of Mr Monkey) understandably.

So, GB has landed. Surprised that the car didn't ‘break down’ on the way from Scotland. 🤣 Friend and I had a bet on that - she's won. 🤣 But I suppose there’s still time for the re-duscovery of his brain tumour (the famed faked tumour) on the way to the church this morning…he get into the ambulance on his own.

More coming out about GB’s treatment of SIL and his fall from wealth. He's staying in a Premier Inn (like normal people), rather than a 5 star.

He forbade SIL to work when they were married, which was a mix of coercive control and his ridiculous ego ‘no wife of mine’ status trophy wife bollocks.

We've learned that Wife Number two, however, is working in a care home. I've worked in a care home and it requires a lot of skill and compassion for very little £, plus you're working with some toxic twats who many of us have as parents and other family members), but it sounds like times are tight for GB.

Oh and wife number two is 26 to his 60. They met when she was in her late teens. Dodgy as fuck.

As Bette Davies said in All About Eve: “fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night (funeral)

Got 🍿

Thinking of you @MonkeyfromManchester. It's often the way that narc men manage to snare good women. They charm and inveigle their way in, then pin them down with marriage/children after which the trouble really starts. Been there, done that.

I hope you all hold your heads up high and don't hold back with the truth. As the saying goes... sunlight is the best disinfectant.

A big slug of brandy in your morning coffee could well be the order of the day. This is what they do in Italy (charmingly called "caffé corretto") and I thoroughly recommend it.

@Sicario thank you. 12 noon is wine time at the wake. Can't wait.

It's an absolute trap, isn't it? He swept her off her feet and then it was hell. Gucci handbags, Jimmy Choos etc. Which he then tried to get in the divorce. Prick.

SIL is looking particularly glam this morning. She's also sporting this very chic long bob. Toxic Brother in law didn't ‘allow’ her to cut her hair so she had very long. She's flicking it this way and that making me laugh at the in-joke. She's such a powerhouse.

I can't imagine the control Wife Number 2 is under. And the poor little girl with have all the Daddy’s girl crap until she grows up and tries to get her own life. Awful man.

I'm a huge believer in the caffe corretto. Italy is on the cards this year. Maybe I can get a flight this morning.

MonkeyfromManchester best wishes to get through the day for you and Mr Monkey.

Thinking of you today @monkeyfrommanchester
Hopefully the start of a lovely peaceful life with Mr M which is so deserved.

Thinking of you and Mr Monkey, and your family today @MonkeyfromManchester hope it goes as well as it can do. Hugs and thoughts coming your way x

We're all thinking of you Monkey. Just count the hours, just focus on that, it will be over after that.

I think I'd like your sil @mm 😃

Deep breaths. Zen like stare into the distance. Book a holiday as soon as you get home!

💙

Thinking of you and your loved ones now, @MonkeyfromManchester. I hope it all goes as well as possible. Not long before it's all over. I forget, is the Hag going to be consumed by (hell)fire or consigned to a grave? Presume as I think you mentioned it's an Irish Carthlick funeral, it'll be the latter, cremation still being frowned upon by hardline Catholics as far as I know.

I didn't send my mother a mothers day card. I am NC for 9 month. Shes abusive and always has been. I don't regret having nothing to do with her. I have made my peace with myself if anything happens her.
I am not upset over the disintegration of the 'relationship'...i am sad that i never had a 'mum'

Thinking of both you and mr Monkey today 💐

Loubelle

You will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

Be aware of any and all attempts to potentially hoover you back in i.e contact from well meaning but easily manipulated people/relatives (known as flying monkeys) suggesting reconciliation or reconnecting.

Thankyou.
Yes im grieving for the mum i should have had and one i deserved.

Lol yes! She has tried...ive ignored her.. apart from replying once where sis had heart attack...just text her saying i already knew...not text her since. She texts saying 'i love you, mum'. I ignore them. If she loved me she would have showed it. She has involved her flying monkeys but ive said it's between me and mum, no one else.

I cant go back ..mental health and self esteem a lot better..but the scars are very deep. thankyou for replying xx

@MonkeyfromManchester just read through your posts. Love and strength sent for you today xx

'SiL is looking very glam...'
I've just read back through @MonkeyfromManchester posts and am delighted that she's showing him that she has a successful life without him and is Much Better Off. Well done her :-)

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau it's good to hear from you. Things sound to be going worse with her and the way she is deliberately baiting you. I understand why you can't present as homeless because of likely places you might end up where drugs/drink are commonplace.
Have you spoken to Women's Aid about a refuge place? You're at the hands of domestic abuse even though it's not from a partner. They're not all communal living, some are self contained flats depending on area. It might be the way out for you.

@Pearlyclouds I remember your previous posts. A friend is in similar situation in France, assistance social have stepped in, parent placed in nursing home and arranged the sale of the house to pay for it. If you speak to neighbours again tell them to call in CCAS or the Marie to deal with it then block phone number. It isn't your responsibility. I would definitely not allow her to be claiming UK pip benefits at your address likely to be illegal and you could be implicated.
@MonkeyfromManchester see you on the other side of today x

I hope that @MonkeyfromManchester is well down the bottle of wine by now.

yes hopefully @MonkeyfromManchester is through the service and onto the vino by now. The final page of a very long and challenging chapter for her and Mr Monkey.
Here's to better days ahead. x

I told my sister I was going to give the dog to our Aunt.

She's furious with me, she said I wanted to keep her, that she will never see her again, she can't believe I'm doing this. The dog is all she has left. I said I'm allowed to change my mind, & I've literally offered for my sister to take over the responsibility.

I said I can't keep the dog just to make you happy. She's always angry at me about something & making me feel bad for my decisions. I'm sick of it.

I was so worried about telling her in fear of her reaction & she's just confirmed why. She reminds me so much of dad! She acts like my mother sometimes it's ridiculous. I just don't want a dog at the moment why is that not ok?