January 2024 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie
Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826?amp%3Bascsubtag=mnforum-

The cousin here is your mothers flying monkey. This person is not interested at all in hearing your side of things so their opinions should be ignored. Drop the rope they hold out to you here and do not further respond. Instead block them from being at all able to contact you.

This is a good listen: https://drchatterjee.com/how-to-spot-a-narcissist-the-impact-of-toxic-relationships-building-healthy-boundaries-with-dr-ramani-durvasula/

@genuine Block and delete

@Genuineweddingone welcome to the ramp up, it's brutal. It is designed to put you in your place, character assassination, drama and bullshit. It's hard to ignore, it sent me insane I was ready to take a fecking hostage.

Unfortunately your mum's ramp up is working, she got her reaction and response, you are still playing her game.
When I went NC I also blocked siblings.

The ramp ups will escalate, narc rage. It is a game/challenge they never tire of, they are batshit. Flying monkeys do it to stay out the firing line, they want you to capitulate to get them off the hook.

You are pig wrestling, rolling around in her shit, she loves it. Dealing with them is every bit as hard as not dealing with them. You were so calm the other day, you are being punished. I think a cease letter is a good idea.

@Genuineweddingone hugs to you what a nightmare. It’s so hard not to respond as that’s been your conditioning since you were a child. Block the lot of them on every device and communications channel possible. Do consider a cease and desist letter. Thoughts with you. Go back and remember the day when you felt the cloud had lifted. Your post that day was awe inspiring. Live thar day every day.

@Genuineweddingone just seen this link on another thread. Estranged parents complaining they have been wronged and the excuses they make. Skip down to 'why do they do it' the parents ego can not allow themselves to be wrong and that is without the narc bullshit on top. Eye opening article x

www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html

Thanks binkie

Thanks all and thanks for the links will look now. I was drained yesterday from it all.

This is my first ever post on mumsnet. Hi everyone.

I'm 49 years old with 2 tween age kids. I have a wonderful husband. I have come to the realisation my mum is a narcissist. My dad is a classic enabler and my mum has a twin sister who is also an enabler. My brother (likely narcissist) is the golden child and I'm the scapegoat.

I've always known she was 'off', but it's taken a escalating accumulation of things to realise and put a name to it. Now I can see it, I can't unsee it. Having my own children has also brought things into sharp focus. I would never do to my kids what she has done to me. My parents are in their 70s now and it's harder than ever.

My mum had a difficult relationship with her own mother, being the least favourite child herself - she used to talk about it alot when I was a child but no longer does. She's passed on her mothers legacy to me. How nice of her.

The problems largely started as I hit adolescence. Daily put downs, treated like I wasn't good enough. My mum had affairs behind my dad's back. I came home from school once to her her ushering a man out of the front door and on entering my bedroom I saw the evidence of their 'fun'. She found it amusing to see the look on my face. She was good at picking fights as was my brother who did everything he could to sneer and humiliate me daily. He used to chase me round the house and I locked myself in the bathroom to get away from him. He'd kick the door down. I learnt to keep my head down but went off the rails into a spiral of smoking, booze, boyfriends. She likes to remind me to this day what an 'awful' teenager I was.

Fast forward 35+ years and I have a good career, own home, nice husband and my own family now. There have been years of few problems at all and years of pure hell with mum and its been especially bad over the past 3 years.

The family get togethers where she turns up angry and treats me like dirt for no reason at all. Putting me down in front of my children. Classic family mobbing. 'Accidentally' sending me text messages snagging me off, that were supposed to be sent to her sister. Slagging me off subtlety to my children when they go to her house without me around. Criticism in public. There's too much to even describe here. The only compliment she ever gives me is to say I've done a great job bringing up my kids. She's obsessed with my children and pesters weekly to see them. She's started to text my daughter asking her to go and see her more. My daughter is 12. I've blocked her on the kids phones. I keep them away from her and don't let her see them without me being around now.

Two years ago I took a break and put a stop to our relationship for a few months. I told them their behaviour was unacceptable and that I needed a break. I write a letter making my feelings clear. Her sister texted me relentless about random stuff during this period (flying monkey). She never had a habit of doing this before my enforced break. After researching toxic families I figured it all out. I stupidly let my mum back into my life a few months later with hard and clearly stated boundaries. I had a serious private talk with my dad who agreed and accepted all the points I made but never contacts me himself and just goes along with what mum wants. He's made himself invisible.

She has slowly broken every boundary since - no surprise. I stupidly lost my temper with her this week and many things I've bottled up during the last 40 years came out - for the first time ever. I'm furious with myself for losing control. She was shocked and took it. But of course 2 days later she rings me and tells me that I'm a terrible person for calling her a bad mum (I didn't) and its my fault for saying such awful things and demanded I say something nice to her. I see her clearly for the first time and it's insidious.

Now considering no contact for life.

@Nicknack111 “Having my own children has also brought things into sharp focus. I would never do to my kids what she has done to me.”

I had a similar realisation after having children.

Don’t beat yourself up about having a rant at your mum - it probably needed to happen and come out. When this happens to me I feel terrible after and wish I hadn’t said anything. It is absolutely better to not say anything to narcissists but I now realise that takes some training! Because we are human and this stuff is painful to go through. Sometimes the rant helped me see how pointless the relationship is.

It is possible to have an unsaid mental boundary if you are low contact and see family occasionally. I found this is easier to do once you’ve given up all hope on the relationship, which took me some time for me to get to. When I was in a lot of angst with my relationship with my narc brother my therapist asked me ‘do I want my brother to be part of my life?’ For some reason the directness of the question flicked a switch for me and the answer was a clear ‘no’. In reality that means even though I see him occasionally via my mum I feel disconnected mentally from engaging with him. It’s a simple ‘hi, how are you?’ and nothing more. Occasionally he sends gifts to my children which I donate to charity straight away. I think so much of setting boundaries is setting them with yourself rather than the other person.

Sorry to hear that you’re going through this with your family but also glad to hear you’ve realised what’s wrong. This group has been super helpful for sharing, as it can all feel quite lonely.

@Nicknack111 I am also daughter of narc mum and weak enabler dad. My mum was a serial shagger, spendaholic, both parents were alcoholic. My brother was a bully and my sister the favoured child.
They will never change, no matter how hard we try and we are conditioned to trying, being kind, smoothing things over, making excuses for their appalling behavior.
For me the final argument was what I needed to stop falling for and being guilted by the frail old lady act and went NC.
It's not an easy decision but it's the only one we can control.

@binkie163
@tonewbeginnings
Thank you for your responses. Feeling beaten down by it all. My main source of guilt now is the impact on my children by going NC with their grandparents. They see what's going on but too young to know the magnitude of it all. It's so very sad they will be robbed of a wider family support network. They deserve better. They are my primary priority. I have to protect them, but because of family drama, and the distance I'm trying to now enforce, our little unit is beginning to feel so isolated.

@binkie163 interesting article. Something similar was posted on the consistently interesting Atlantic about estranged parents and children but I remember reading it and feeling really doubtful, as it was written from the view of someone who seems mainly to deal with counselling the parents. I can't access it without getting an account but I remember quite a lot of lamenting how disparate families are nowadays and heavy use of "the children feel they have been mistreated and can't let go" etc.

@Nicknack111 your children are not being robbed of wider family support because we know ourselves that support is not there, it is always conditional with strings attached. Family dysfunction is indoctrinated early, before we even realize. Too young to understand but will instinctively know something is wrong, that's where the walking on eggshells starts.

Toxic parents make toxic grandparents. Dysfunctional people don't change.

Our families are batshit. As a child you had no choice as an adult you do.

@Nicknack111 welcome. I'm really sorry you've had to go through and are going through that with your mother and family members. I'm also really glad that you've managed at least to build a life for yourself with a good marriage and children, also well done for how you've dealt with your children and mother's relationship with each other so far.

It's your decision as to whether you go NC with your parents (though if you do cut them off/go low contact I would consider doing the same with any family members who might or already have become flying monkeys.) I really wish you the best with it and hope you keep returning here as it's full of awesome and supportive people. Thinking of you.

Just reread the article @binkie163 and this is really standing out to me:

"Compare this with the forums for adult children of abusers, where the members not only cut-and-paste email exchanges into their posts, they take photos of handwritten letters and screenshot text conversations. They recreate scenes in detail, and if the details don't add up, the other members question them about it. They get annoyed when a member's paraphrase changes the meaning of a sentence, or when omitted details change the meaning of a meeting. They care about precision, context, and history."

I know there's often advice for abuse victims/survivors (/other preferred term) to keep evidence of stuff to prove that abuse that was otherwise invisible actually happened. What's really terrifying is when this has been weaponised against you from the earliest possible age, or from the beginning of the relationship in the case of partners I guess. My mother writes a diary every day, speaks to family members who don't live in this house every day, takes videos (obviously when it suits her, e.g. she'll wait until I'm angry or panicking or crying or when she's completely confused me she'll whip out her phone and take a video of me frantically begging her to leave my room or something), she has read my letters, particularly from hospitals and psychiatrists, and kept copies or just the original letter, she will have a conversation and type up her own completely made-up version and send it immediately afterwards to ensure her own version gets and stays on the record often before I've pulled myself together and finished crying. Not only does this absolutely do a number on you, because it's not just making me doubt my own reality, she's also constructing my reality in the minds of the rest of my family, often my friends and other important people in my life, as they aren't there. Another awful thing is that I have an almost pathological fear of repeating this behaviour, which I find absolutely maddening and makes me feel dirty and insane. It's affected me to the extent that I physically couldn't keep a journal in the psychiatric hospital due to my fear of writing things down and my boyfriend recently offered to share his diary with me so I wouldn't worry when his plans changed or his work or social life got in the way of things and I couldn't even look at it.

This is too much already but when you're not just doubting yourself but fighting against an entirely fabricated narrative with carefully manipulated "evidence" it becomes almost impossible to talk about it apart from in the heat of the moment. This paragraph was also difficult and upsetting to read:

"The first viewpoint, "emotion creates reality," is truth for a great many people. Not a healthy truth, not a truth that promotes good relationships, but a deep, lived truth nonetheless. It's seductive. It means that whatever you're feeling is just and right, that you're never in the wrong unless you feel you're in the wrong. For people whose self-image is so battered and fragile that they can't bear anything but validation, often it feels like the only way they can face the world."

My father often says something very similar to this to equate my mother's actions and words with mine, he considers them equally valid or if anything, her feelings to be (much) more valid than mine. I don't know if I've even started working out what I think about this. I've also never felt that the perception of narcs as pretty much "just" having very low self-esteem.

Sorry, not finishing the thought, my head feels very congested and I don't know what to say about it! Apologies for leaving this here half-finished.

Nicknack

It is not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist like your mother and your dad is equally as culpable because he has failed to protect you from the excesses of his wife's behaviour. He is truly a weak bystander of a man and he will keep throwing you under the bus. The only people who actually tend to bother with narcissists are those who have received the Special Training i.e the now adult children of same.

re your comment
"She's obsessed with my children and pesters weekly to see them. She's started to text my daughter asking her to go and see her more. My daughter is 12. I've blocked her on the kids phones. I keep them away from her and don't let her see them without me being around now".

Adult children of narcissists often allow their parents to have a relationship with their grandchildren but its the wrong decision. They often hope against experience that their parents will somehow behave better this time around and that does not happen.

Well done for blocking her access to their phones. The problem with your current approach however, ie they seeing her in your presence is that the harm to your kids is then being done right in front of your very eyes. It can be a disapproving look, a pinch etc. Your kids give her lots of lovely narcissistic supply. She is certainly playing off one child against the other and is already developing a golden child/scapegoat dynamic. It could really damage their own sibling relationship. She could also try and steal their hearts and minds from under your very nose; older people tend to have more disposable income and she could offer to pay for tuition, driving lessons etc.
Anyway I would also look at the "gifts" you have received for Christmas, birthdays from your mother and ask yourself how useful or otherwise nice these actually were. Narcissists can be truly crap gift givers.

You are the parent. You get to make these decisions without apology or excessive justification. You can assure your child that you are making a wise and loving decision for them as well as yourself. I am not going to script what you should say because you are the only one who knows your children, but you must convey that this isn't up for negotiation. This is not a decision that the child gets to make. Yes, children usually love their grandparents. Children are often quite indiscriminate in their love which is why they need parents to guide them. Not every person is safe to have around and this is a good time to teach that important life lesson. The more matter-of-fact you are, the more matter-of-fact your children will be. When we act hysterical, they will usually reflect our hysteria. If you act anxious, they will act anxious. If you appear unsure, they will push. Model the reaction and attitude you want your children to adopt.

Keep any explanations short and age appropriate. You can gauge what is appropriate information depending on the age of the child. If the child is older and has experienced or witnessed them being nasty in action then you can say more. If the other set of grandparents are nice, and importantly emotionally healthy, concentrate on them.

The best thing for you to do here is for you as a family unit to cease completely seeing either of them. Children need emotionally healthy grandparents as role models and neither of your parents here fit the bill. They like you had a choice when it came to the kids and your parents chose to re-enact the same old shit that was done to them. That toxic dysfunctional cycle has now stopped with you because you have chosen not to repeat it.

@Nicknack111 I agree with everything @AttilaTheMeerkat has said. I am currently being thrown shit from every angle and have so little energy to write a long post I am sorry but we all know what you are going through. My family seem relentless at the moment and I truely believe my mother wont be happy till she has put me in an early grave but I am too stubborn to lay down and do that. I love myself and my life and son and I will not do that but shes wearing me down with all her crap. Its a very long hard road but we can all do it.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau are you out of hospital?

@Genuineweddingone yes, I was discharged on February 1st.

@Nicknack111 very sadly I think you're my twin as so much of what you wrote is similar to my own upbringing and the gradual journey I had into realising how toxic my family of origin were. I went non contact far later than I probably should have done.
You're amongst folks who share your journey here.

This.

My husband felt guilt that his mum will never have grandkids.

I don't. There's no way in HELL I'd allow any child near her to corrupt.

Oh the criticism everything is a criticism , if she can’t find something to criticise she will invent something . Your children are better without her one of those will become the target of criticism . The first time my mum paid me a compliment I was 32 I was so shocked I nearly asked if she was feeling alright but didn’t as didn’t want to be rude ( not something she has ever been worried about) . I wasn’t even that nice was said sarcastically and started with the word So and ended with Really

nicknack

impact on my children by going NC with their grandparents.

Beneficial impact.
On your relationship with them because they're not seeing you put down in front of them by her.
On their future relationships because they're not seeing you accept the put downs as if it's normal and fine. Instead you're modelling respect for yourself by removing yourself from a bad situation.
On their mental health and emotional development, because granny has already picked a golden child and that dynamic is harmful to both the golden child and the scapegoated other child. Look at your own siblings. You don't want your children growing up a scapegoat, a golden child or a flying monkey.

It's so very sad they will be robbed of a wider family support network

They won't be. There isn't one! There's only a toxic network.

I think so much of setting boundaries is setting them with yourself rather than the other person.

Agree with this tonewbeginnings.

Boundaries are something you have, by deciding it, they're not something someone else gives you or allows you to have. Boundaries aren't open for negotiation. Part of having boundaries means upholding them by not allowing others to transgress them, which may mean removing yourself from the conversation/situation or removing the person doing the transgression from your life.

This is the point I'm at. I've tried for years to have boundaries, walking away and returning to my own home so many times to get the point across. Although the transgressions have become less severe, the parent is still pushing. Every time. I'm tired of it. It's so rude. There's a clear understanding by the parent that asking directly is out of the question, but no acceptance of it, their attitude is one of how to obtain the information by manipulation. They may have stopped trying to smash down the wall, but trying to sneakily climb over it is no better!

I'm also realising sibling's nice side is I suspect actually their flying monkey side. I tolerated their nasty side because of their nice side and "you can't choose your family". The mask has slipped a few times in recent years and now I think it's only that they're being used to lure me in and keep me in the family or to extract information. Upsetting. I want to move away from that dynamic.

I have a question. Is negativity part of narcissism?

I have a suspected narcissistic friend. Displaying signs that I don't exist (as a person, with feelings, wants and needs) beyond my ability to provide them with what they want. Every(? I'm paying attention now) conversation is negative, dismissing or putting down either a specific person or a vague group of people. Sometimes people they don't even know! Reading something on the internet and having a strong opinion on it, for example. A vibe that everyone who isn't them or their chosen few, is somehow doing life wrong. Unless I'm misreading it. Are narcissists incapable of having pleasant conversation? They used to be when I first met them, but I'm wondering if that wasn't the real them and this newer, negative, snarky and at times verbally aggressive version, is. It's possible they're just having a tough time right now and this is how they are, but coupled with the other things I've noticed I'm wondering about narcissism. Any thoughts?

Help me ladies I’ve had a rough month. GP has upped my anti depressants. The trigger was a text from unknown number which I would have ignored had it not been for the photo. He hasn’t emailed or messaged me since March 2021 - he goes silent at a falling out and refuses to talk to you meet you etc the open hope of a reconciliation is you crying to him. We met both him and my mother in October 2022 after a doorstep visit we met for tea and it was fine although mother repeated how unhappy she was as she didn’t ‘have a life and didn’t see family’ and he tried to cuddle my daughter and she said no and she defended her A level choices and said we were happy etc I was sent this in Feb. His birthday is mid January. I dropped around some Xmas presents in December 2022 but they ignored them and didn’t say thank you and ignored all our birthdays in 2022 and 2023 and my sons in January 2023. So with the therapist I decided after Christmas 2022 to stop reaching out - I got this in Feb from an unknown number. But I’m struggling I have replied and thought of replying saying ‘not my present I gave you present December 2022 - did you mean thank you for that one?’ Or even ‘who is this ? 😂’ or I very bland ‘I don’t think this is for me’ I have had sleepless nights thinking how or even to respond. It is making me ill.

this is my composed reply after 3 weeks

This is not a gift I have sent you. I have sent other gifts to you, messages etc but all of those have been ignored, didn’t even get a thank you - so I stopped reaching out to you and deleted your number after you ignored myself - your daughter and my two children for over a year - in fact you’ve barely spoken to us in 3 years. All 3 of us gave up and left it up to both of you to contact us if and when you wanted - and nothing. I trust you liked the dvds and art book I gave you on the doorstep in December 2022. Be great if we can move forward more positively and with an adult relationship and to enjoy our lives with mutual respect and family support. I want no money and no childcare just a friendship.

I have not sent it !!!

@IAAP I'd just block the number and ignore the message.