January 2024 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie
Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826?amp%3Bascsubtag=mnforum-

@binkie163
Good grief! What purpose did the lies serve?

The kintyre peninsula is absolutely perfect. A cave? Thank you for the help @TheShellBeach xxx

@user
Enjoy that spa day! Perfection.

@YesIwillyesIwillYes
That is truly terrible. Dreadful. Your sister is a monster. Is she the golden child?

@REP22
You are too kind. The golden sedan chair is just the ticket. I’m seeing his Roman emperor’ wave right now. Shame amphitheatres are in short supply these days, as I’d have a couple of lions waiting for him. Mr Monkey is going to grass him to SIL today about his stalking of his son, which isn’t working as both nephews have blocked him.

@Genuineweddingone
@Spencer0220
@Parentalalienation
I love you kind gals with your offers of help. Just imagine the carnage we could cause. Yep, he’ll be on his couch. And I hope he feels shit, but he won’t.

@Spencer0220
Oh no. You and your husband have a very strong marriage and epitomise in sickness and in health.

@tonewbeginnings
Hugs to you. It’s so hurtful remembering all the crap.
MM has regrets about not moving across the city out of hag’s reach.

@Moaning5
Hugs to you, too. Relish the peace.

all good here. Hardly thinking about the Hag at all.

Thank you.

Like someone else said, it's a ring symbolising what we have now, and been through, not a promise ring of young lovers.

I spoke to DSis and I had no idea she was on her third ring! She had to have one cut off, but that replacement got lost by one of her young kids. They must have found it and played with it!

@MonkeyfromManchester thank you. We try.

@Spencer0220 So sorry about your DH. That must be really trying for you both. But it was an innocent mistake and he obviously loves you very much. xx

Oh I know.

We spent some time together recently. I got back this morning. I had a bit of an epiphany and realised that my mum sees me as some kind of sister in a weird sibling rivalry role. The way she speaks to me, shows off to me, tries to push my buttons. I described it to DH and he said it reminds him of his two sisters when they were teenagers. I really understood that she is mad.

My kids are young and I got them a craft activity from the pound shop to do in her front room at the weekend. It was fun. They each made something and there was some stuff left over so I made something too and we were all having a jolly good time. We all showed my mum our creations. She was full of praise for the kids' efforts.

I showed mine, and her reaction was so odd it was almost comical. She pulled a face then pretended to try not to laugh. Said it looked like one of the kids did it and not to give up the day job, that it looks very amateurish and theres no way she would have produced something like that.

It didn't hurt my feelings because it was child like and I just did it for a laugh, just mucking in with the kids. I looked at her as she was spouting off ('my goodness, it's hard to believe an adult did that!') and I had a strange sense of bemusement and confusion that a grown up would behave this way. My kids didn't hear, thankfully.

I smiled and said 'aw, I think it's cute' then I took a photo of it and left to room for make a coffee. I was smiley and breezey afterwards. I thought 'I've got your number. You're mad' and almost had a sense of satisfaction, like I 'caught' her and it validated a lot of my suspicions. Mum is an amazing crafter, I'm not too bad but I honestly don't care that my kids arts craft wasn't up to her standard. I have a professional career and tick along at it quite nicely.

Then for the rest of my time there she kept showing me pieces that she had made through the years, asking what I thought. I decided to take the high road and said they were lovely. She continued to ask again and again what I thought until I snapped and told her I'd already answered and said they were lovely.

It was just all so strange.

@MonkeyfromManchester She is a monster. I still don’t understand her reason for excluding me from the funeral. I feel so exhausted by her behaviour. Does anyone have any tips for dealing with toxic people? Ugh.

Do narcs know they’re narcs? They are just so tedious.

@Nationaltrustme that is interesting as I think that is what my mum does too. Its like what you would see on tv about siblings trying to get one over on each other but there was a decent gap between me and my sister so we never had that competition type thing organically at all so when my sister and I then grew up my mother put herself in the middle of us and its like she tried to emulate what a tv family would do in regards to squabbling. For whatever reason, and honestly not blowing my own horn here, I am more inteligent and have done more in life than my sister as in personal achievements with qualifications, buying property the sort of thing you would want your parents to be at least supportive of, my sister on the other hand emigrated and is in a relationship in a dead end job and renting. All fine shes working to provide which i love and admire everything she has done for herself too but i think i think it is the very the fact that i am a single parent and my sister is in a relationship which elevates my sister more in my mothers eyes. I am thinking now that when I was in relationships and I have only been in a handful in my life, my mother was happier with me and not nasty but as soon as I become single she cranks things up. My sister has never been single which is entirely her choice but last time I was single for over a decade and got nothing but abuse from my mum then met someone and the few years we were together she behaved herself then I became single a few months back and she started her crap again. It is weird to try and analyise them I guess because while I have adhd and asd so my mind works differently anyway the mind of a narc just works in a completely different way again.

@YesIwillyesIwillYes even if they suspected it about themselves they would never seek help nor admit it to anyone as they never see themselves in the wrong.

I woke up this morning and it was almost like I have had an epiphany. I own my own life. I am my own person and I can do what I like with my life. Years of being a yes person, years of listening to what my family have said about me and then I posted earlier on here and thought, why do I let them infantilise me? I DO have my own home. I can do anything I want. I dont need to conform to what their norm is so I got out of bed, I poured a coffee and now I am here baking fresh scones and soup for lunch for later thinking why do I care what they think? My curtains are all still closed so the outside world does not exist. All that exists is what is cocooned in these four walls - me, my child and dog. Nothing else matters. I feel a sense of calm and freedom that I have not felt for a very long time if ever as I only married my husband (very young) to get away from my family.
I feel finally free.

Yay @Genuineweddingone. Good for you!!!

@Genuineweddingone
Way to go! i am massively impressed with the scone baking at this hour alone never mind the life changing revelations! x

@Nationaltrustme as soon as we see the patterns of behavior it is so obvious, no praise for anyone except themselves 'the chosen one' shamelessly seeking praise, chipping away at everyone else.
@YesIwillyesIwillYes the narc just see themselves as superior, smarter and endlessly interesting. When we don't fawn over them, they get spiteful and narcy, it is tedious.
@Genuineweddingone the epiphany releases us. No longer caring what they think.

@flapjackfairy I recently bought an air fryer and doing everything I can in it lol

On a side note, can anyone explain why air fryers are held in such high esteem?

I sent mine back after it proved that it couldn't actually make chips. Very disappointing.

Back to the thread: I'm glad you've realised that you are your own person, @Genuineweddingone as you already sound more confident.

@TheShellBeach I have no idea but like the sheep I am I went and bought one a few weeks ago as it was on sale (its only a small cheap one) so trying to use it as much as I can. I dont do the baking stuff normally so ds was a bit slanty eyed at me with his freshly baked fruit scones this morning kind of like when I voluntarily give the dog a rolled slice of ham instead of him begging cos there is a pill in it lol

Also yes just a moment of clarity. My mother has pretty much tried to make herself indespensible to me over the years and for babysitting and dog minding I think I took her crap cos I had nobody else but now I realise I dont need anyone else. Ds is at the age he can be left alone for 2 or three hours, I have now met up with another single mum with a dog and introduced dogs so we each now have a free dog minder for nights away or holidays and I just feel like the empowered person I should have felt all along but they beat you down mentally and emotionally and I just feel liberated quite honestly. Hitting 50 years old and only NOW taking back control. I could cry and lament the years I have lost but instead I plan on celebrating the years I have left.

@Genuineweddingone

Hitting 50 years old and only NOW taking back control. I could cry and lament the years I have lost but instead I plan on celebrating the years I have left

I'm much older than you and I'm very, very happy and satisfied since I went NC with my vile sisters, and blocked them.

I just cannot believe how much of my life I have given to 'proving' myself to these people. I dont have to do it with my friends they love me unconditionally and likewise but for some reason with my family it is like I have been masking my entire life with them which on top of masking my other issues has drained me so between my diagnosis and releasing myself from them I feel like a whole new person. I am not a very confident person in myself and have not had very many boundaries and now I know why. I am going to go forth from today and be the me I should never have suppressed all these years. I have no idea why I even wanted them to like me ffs. Its liberating to feel it but sad when you realise the person you could and should have been all these years.

Sorry for waffling on but its just really hit me in the past few days that I have always deserved better. My son sure as shit does.

Me too
Found it hugely over rated

@genuine it was turning 50 for me too that crystallised all the bullshit.

Good for you genuine wedding.

I'm totally with you on air fryers. @TheShellBeach

@Genuineweddingone I am celebrating your new found freedom, just finished washing fox shit off the dog. It's life just better 😄

@binkie163 what is it with dogs and rolling around in shit ffs? Mine is the same.

@Genuineweddingone 😂😂 dogs gotta love them.

I have an update on my parents…

Last time I posted it had all come to a head and I didn’t know whether to confront them or go NC etc.

I spoke with my Dad via FaceTime last week and let a lot of stuff out. He was patient, he listened, he understood. He was very receptive. He apologised profusely and seemed genuinely devastated about what had happened. It ended on a good note.

I hadn’t really spoken to my mum since she told me ‘she couldn’t deal’ with the issues between us 3.

Until today…

We’ve exchanged a few pleasantries via text message over the past couple of weeks. Obviously in her words a couple of weeks ago she needed time to recover from her operation and getting over the death of her witch mum.

She texted me this morning asking how we all were so I thought I would FaceTime her as I was on my own.

It started off fine but then slowly declined. I was trying to explain that things were very difficult for me as a child and I couldn’t come over to the house for the time being as things get weird. Etc etc etc.

Well she was incredibly defensive. She minimised everything I said. ‘Did you ever stop to think about me!’ ‘You’re right, I didn’t care!’ (in relation to the text I sent the other week about feeling suffocated).

She even said ‘You’ve barely been in contact.. we think you’re going to use the children as weapons against us’! I mean, what the fuck. I would never do that!

I tried to explain I felt terrified as a child… she butts in and says ‘well I was terrified! You were a very difficult child’.

Everything was turned around. It was awful guys. I felt like such a twat.

I actually had to hang up on her. It was going nowhere.

After I hung up she pretty much immediately sent me a text saying ‘we can’t leave it like this! Please can we meet up and talk? I shouldn’t have brought up other stuff when you were talking. I think it will be better to talk in person’.

What theeeee fuuuuuuck.

If you read all that, well done lol. I just don’t know what to do know. It seems I have two different types of parents to deal with.

I don’t want to see her right now. I don’t want to talk. I don’t know what to do. What do I do?