January 2024 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie
Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826?amp%3Bascsubtag=mnforum-

@Genuineweddingone
You are the best parent. The humour around negelect is brilliant, too. The same malicious report to social services happened to my cousin - her toxic ex did it - and, of course, nothing was found. Social worker said it happens a fair bit and ties up resources.

@user8800

Thank you. Xxx

@FreeRider
Good grief!

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau
Thank you.
The spite your mum shows around Velvet is horrendous. By the sounds of it, pets and horses are used as accessories to game playing. Your mother is dreadfully, dreadfully self-centred. The pharmacy take says it all.

Good times here.

Mr Monkey is doing ok, just incredibly tired. All the death admin related to the hag is being ticked off. Funeral will be next month.

Golden Boy (his toxic twat of a brother) phoned last night for a ‘chat’.

Backdrop - he's estranged from his two early 20s sons as he walked out seven years ago and treated their lovely mother appallingly. GB knows the younger one is a lost cause, Nephew 2, blocked him years ago. Nephew 1 has mild learning difficulties and is viewed as ‘soft touch’ and hadn't blocked him.

GB is aware that he's going to be at his mother’s funeral under a lot of (some of it hostile) scrutiny and needs a wingman and has lined up N1 as he thinks he's a soft touch.

GB has been bombarding N1 with texts, it's obvious that N1 has now blocked him.

GB made lots of idle chat - I'm pissing myself laughing in the kitchen - about football (FFS), family memories (FFFS as he was vile to MM as a child) and other bollocks.

Then it's the “I've not heard back from son number one”. The real purpose of the call…

Obviously, he's angling AGAIN that Mr Monkey gets involved. Mr Monkey doesn't take the bait. GB knows he can't ask outright as he faces the narcisstic injury of a refusal.

It's obvious that GB is now hedging his bets about attending the funeral as he started to drop hints that his car is playing up. Long drive up to Aberdeen from Manchester and being devoted son at his mother’s bedside and the car broke down etc etc.

Funny as he didn't mention the car issue in any previous calls.

Clearly, he’s so scared of attending as he can't front it without a wingman and he risks further narc injury of his sons blanking him, ex-wife being adored by everyone as she will be her normal gracious and charming self, us with a great unwillingness to spend ANY time with him….so I'm betting on an ‘issue with the car’ at Dundee and a no show…

Mr Monkey did mention life insurance and I bet his ears pricked up at that.

It VERY clearly says in Hag’s will that she had had no contact with GB for seven years so he's getting nothing. He can't contest that.

More revelations. Mr Monkey didn't know Slave Son was his half brother until he was 14 and Slave Son was 24. MM’s family is batshit.

@MonkeyfromManchester
What is it with these families ? My sister didn't tell her own son that the man he thought was his father had only been in his life since the age of one and therefore his sister was his half sister.
She told him as a teenager but didn't tell her daughter so she only found out when her brother informed her during a row some time later.
In fact she had resented her son all his life as she was an unmarried mother in the 70s which was handled horrifically by my mother whose only real concern was what the neighbours would think ! The resulting shame has rippled down the decades and is still destroying lives today !
My nephew went off the rails and is now estranged from the whole family including me and my family who supported him when my sister threw him out aged 16. We tried so hard to reverse the damage but all to no avail and he has been lost to us .
My sister of course takes no responsibility for any of it and neither does my mother.
Honestly the older I get the more messed up it all seems . All smoke and mirrors of appearance over love. The only important thing is to maintain the narrative it seems because without that everything falls apart and people would actually have to take some sort of responsibility.

@flapjackfairy I think it takes years to step outside the family illusion/narrative to see it for what it really is, it is not comfortable as it's all we know.
I still occasionally catch myself thinking it wasn't all bad!

@flapjackfairy the secrets and lies in families are appalling. The hag had hardly any personal paperwork and hardly spoke about her family, so God knows what secrets are getting buried with her.

Hello… just popping in to mention to any poster or lurker living with family estrangement that there is a longstanding group in the OTBT section of mumsnet (in “other stuff) for people in our situation. Threads in this section last 30 days only and are not visible in Active Threads. The title includes the word Annex as it started as an annex to this stately homes thread. It’s a very supportive and nonjudgmental space.

Maybe that's just as well Monkey; they are unlikely to be anything good or helpful. I am sure she is holding court and delighting in regaling Satan and his close cabinet of Infernal Imps with her tales, as they toast crumpets over the roasting, bubbling soul of another faithless heretic. 🔥

Best that those tales end there.

Sending you love and strength and to your lovely Mr. M. No doubt there will be further incoming from GB until he realises the futility of his overtures and retreats once more.

Love and strength to you all. x

yes yes yes! I am always thinking it wasn't really that bad! That I am just being overly dramatic.
It really messes with my head !

@REP22

I'm chuckling at that vision. Yes, I'm sure Golden Boy will give it a few more go’s until he realises it's futile. The best bit was Mr Monkey regaling him with tales of how the pretty much brand new white goods went off to a charity for homeless people. GB thinks all homeless people have brought it on themselves and are lazy and workshy addicts, so it's doubly GREAT. X

Well, I've crawled my way to half term...

@mm God, GB sounds utterly vile, and I agree 💯 that there will be "car trouble" on the day of the funeral. They are just SO transparent, aren't they?

You could wear bright colours and say it's what the hag wanted... Bright yellow? :)

I would also - being a veteran of many a Catholic wake - suggest getting quietly and happily hammered 🥂

Love to all x

So the hag wrote her will seven years ago when she'd only just lost contact with GB?! How did she know then that they wouldn't have reconciled?! I wonder if she wrote a new will every time she fell out with someone, it's all so unbelievably strange.

Getting leathered at the funeral sounds like it's right up your alley, definitely go for it. Am sure your life is going to be a lot less eventful (in a good way) now, you'll have nothing left to rant about so definitely mark the occasion!

I'm in Scotland. Let me know if his car gives him problems and I'll find him and give him a push start :-) Think you're right, he's going to bail on the funeral. He can always fly down.

@user8800

Enjoy that half-term! I hope you have good things planned, or if the sofa takes your fancy a good book.

GB is totally vile. The adored and indulged son of The Hag has no redeeming features at all. He’s governed purely by self-interest. He was a vile bully to Mr Monkey all through their childhood and teens. I never liked him.

The way he treated women was appalling, but, of course, he worshipped his mother.

the timeline looks like he stopped contact with her when she wrote him The Letter calling him out on his behaviour to his now ex-wife, the mother of his children.

He couldn’t face the music. He had a narc injury on being called out. Hence disappearance.

@Timefortea2024
I’m not sure about the will. She probably didn’t have one and then only wrote it when she knew he wouldn’t respond to her letter. She had a narc injury on not having GB back in her orbit begging for forgiveness after The Letter.

@Parentalalienation

Howling with laughter here.

I think you’ll agree that leaving him on the hard shoulder would be best. The hard shoulder looking suspiciously like his living room with the telly on and Wife two making him cups of tea.

Be interesting IF he does turn up for me to watch the dynamics.

I wonder whether he’ll bring wifey two and their five year old daughter (five, he’s nearly 60) Wifey two is mid-20s I’m guessing, she seems really kind (read obedient, which is all he wants in a woman) but she doesn’t have the glamour and elan of Wife one, so that will be fun to watch. Wives are trophies and the FIFA World Cup is Wife one and Wife two - however nice she is - is the English Football League.

We have a month to the funeral - I wish it was sooner for Mr Monkey and closure - so lots of drama.

Golden Boy will be sweating. He could, of course, have a brain tumour. Like the one he invented 10 years ago to try and reconcile with Wife One (SIL).

Oh and, of course, with Golden Boy attending the funeral, there’s the small issue of him telling friends in Scotland that his mother had died seven or so years ago which we found out about before Xmas.

Mr Monkey was amused
“my mother is the only known case of someone dying twice.”

@MonkeyfromManchester au contraire my mum's dad died twice. I grew up being told he was dead, then he appeared in my mid 20's. Mum denied telling us all for years he was dead, honestly not even embarrassed. My dad knew but never said anything. Batshit weirdos.

I think that all of us in Scotland need to form a committee of willing helpers, to push GB's car to Aberdeen.

We can take a small area of Scotland each.

Bonus points for misdirecting the vehicle. I'm in Argyll and I'll gladly give him a shove down the Kintyre Peninsula.

It's like people who have several "grandparents" who die to get time off work 🙄

These people have NO conscience or moral compass

@mm dh is away with work all week. Dc1 is busy waiting essays, dc2 is just chilling 😎

I'm seeing a friend midweek and going for a spa day, too

I intend to watch TV, read books and try and relax. It's been an awful couple of weeks stress wise

Low contact with chaotic, toxic family. Mother’s husband died recently and after I said via text I would attend, younger sister decided I was not welcome to come to the funeral. She would prefer me to come a different day so she and I could catch up properly xx. She told me there would be no wake and it was just a small family funeral. I really only wanted to go to support my very elderly mother. I had already decided I wouldn’t stay for the wake because they do my head in. I respected her request not to attend, i thought it was very odd and out of order of her but I didn’t want to make a fuss at a difficult time

my mother is now in hospital, and during the visit the funeral came up and my niece said I completely understand why you and your other sister decided not to come. . Imagine the toxic backlash though when I made clear to my mother, niece etc, that my sister had instructed me not to attend. My sister had told my elderly mother and niece etc that I didn’t show up to the funeral because I couldn’t be bothered. And my sister is doubling down on her lies by saying I’m lying. Oh and meddling. It was actually a decent sized funeral and there was a wake at a hotel.

gawd.

Perhaps we could form a committee to carry him (GB) all the way in a fanfare procession, borne aloft on a gilded sedan chair, to @MonkeyfromManchester's Hag's funeral? To ensure he gets there with the least amount of inconvenience to himself, you understand.

We could make him a crown to wear from a garland of bollocks spray-painted gold. I often work with farmers and vets, so have access to an inexhaustible supply of them. 🎳😉

This was funny today - attended a funeral of a mutual friend. Mother decided to sit in the pews to one side right at the back (we were told to sit in the centre isle). She was completely on her own. She did not sit next to her grandchild who had kept her a seat. Mother likes to make me feel guilty about not seeing GC.
Afterwards there was tea and cake. I was going to skip it as I didn’t want to see her. She left before the coffin. Probably feeling sorry for herself now. No one knows how horrible she is to me (us!).

If we all did this, it would mean that the Stately Homes family would be there in support of @MonkeyfromManchester and family. How wonderful would that be?.We will be there in spirit of course, holding you in thoughts.
Sadly you're right. He's going to be on his couch with a broken down car.

@REP22 , I'm in Slough and I'm offering DH and I to travel up and provide help. Anything for @MonkeyfromManchester

Awkward day here. Some of you might have seen another thread of mine on here. DH, who is wonderful, has an acquired brain injury. He often does what we call "really stupid shit" because he doesn't know what he's doing. We laugh about it, and move on. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to intervene to stop something stupid/dangerous.

Only yesterday he threw my wedding ring in the bin by accident. And the council then emptied our bins before I even realised I'd forgotten to put my ring back on.

He's absolutely devastated. But, already got a replacement ordered.

I am in Ireland and will happily fly to Scotland and help GB on his travels :)

Random thoughts over the weekend but sometimes I wish I had reduced contact and hope earlier. I feel like I have wasted decades of my life in pain by trying to minimise or deal with toxic behaviour from my family. I regret the time I lost - especially now in my early 40s when I am juggling kids + work + finances! I wish I could travel back in time with the wisdom I have now and start again.

@tonewbeginnings I feel the same, all that walking on eggshells, second guessing myself, never looking forward to anything because I know it’s possibly going to be ruined. Your a similar age to me, so at least we’ve got a few years left to appreciate the peace x

@Spencer0220
Oh I saw that thread ! So sorry you lost your ring ! I didn't realise it was you ! It isn't a huge thing in the grand scheme of things in most people's eyes but I know I would be v upset . I am terribly sentimental though !
Anyway I am sure you will love your new one as well so I am glad you have bern able to replace it x