January 2024 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie
Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826?amp%3Bascsubtag=mnforum-

@MonkeyfromManchester wow! The grave photos… I didn’t know anyone else does this. It is super weird. My brother sends me photos of my mum next to my dad’s grave every time he visits it. It’s completely performative nonsense. I’m NC so I don’t respond.

@Nationaltrustme
I can also relate though my mum is not as extreme. But I recognise the constant feeling of being judged and shamed at a subconscious level though much remains unspoken. .And yes the constant judgement of everyone else alongside the narrative of the perfect Disney childhood I was given ! There is no capacity for self reflection and any attempt to challenge the narrative or even have an honest discussion is shut down with outrage over how selfish and ungrateful I am not appreciating how they did everything for me and my siblings etc etc .
It messes with my head and has lead to massive feelings of confusion and guilt.
But I am aware it won't ever change so now I am v neutral in my communication and say v little of substance. I certainly never give her any ammunition to use against me or my family .
It makes me sad not to be able to be real and I wish I could lean on her for support. God knows I have needed that so many times but she only makes it worse by subtly saying it is because I am falling in some way or not doing it like her and my dad because of course they were perfect parents! they don't say it outright of course but the message is always there.
My dad is gone now and I don't live near my mum so it does help in that way but it is lonely to not have an extended family to have your back ( and I have a v complex relationship.with my sister also). I love them still but I keep them at arms length as it us less painful that way.
So you are not alone and welcome to our group x

My mum's sister does this... group photos by family graves 🤔

She's mad as a box of frogs, though so 🤷‍♀️

I've got a very boring day ahead of homework and helping one of my dc with homework 😴

Dropped something into mums very briefly yesterday...she's banged her leg but the skin is so thin that its ripped it.

She's put on a nasty old fashioned plaster, which I know will take off more skin. Sigh. So I shall be dealing with that tomorrow.

Hope you're OK @mm? The wheels will grind slowly due to the inquest but, actually, this may help MrM process what's happened recently and give him strength x

@flapjackfairy actually this sounds very, very close to my experience. My mum also has good qualities and moments of seeming 'normal'. I can see aspects of her wanting the best for me and she shows up in very practical ways at times. For example if I've had a cough for a long time, she'll march me into the pharmacy and tell me to speak to the pharmacist, or if I haven't had time to get my hair cut because of the kids she will make an appointment for me and insist I go why she babysits. She knows I collect certain items and when I visit, she has always picked up something for me to add to my collection. There are moments when she taps into our old relationship, when I was a child, and it's lovely. I want to have that still! But I feel like she has taken me growing up as an actual rejection of her, and she has stepped back accordingly. The warmth is fleeting, comes and goes. I have noticed that she has been trying the past few years, but I can't let my guard down.

Every so often I think that I want to turn to her for something and I always regret it. She always makes some comment that is low key stating that I've brought it on myself. On one occasion she said 'I've never been in that situation so don't know what to advise'. It was just so odd to not use adult skills of emotional intelligence to find some way to relate to my situation.

I've had several dreams through the years where I'm being chased and knock on her door. She shouts through the letterbox that she can't let me in or the person chasing me will get in too. I guess subconsciously I feel that she cannot be trusted to have my back.

@Frith2013 wow, really? Would you care to elaborate? I'd be so interested to hear as mu mum feels so unique. She also is constantly diagnosing everyone as having some kind of mental problem but it's clear to me that she is the one who is very odd.

@FreeRider I'm so sorry that you were made to feel this way. Having children does not define someone's worth (as I'm sure you know!) and nobody is entitled to grandchildren. My own mother huffed and took to her bed when I didn't get pregnant quickly enough. She got cross with me for not trying straightaway after we got married but she didn't know that it just wasn't happening for us. I look back at how ashamed I felt and can't believe I didn't tell her where to stick it at the time!

@Sicario I'm sorry you had that feeling too. For a long time I thought that I was the problem for feeling like this but now see that I don't feel this way about anyone else. It had caused so much guilt and shame through the years.

Hi Nationaltrustme

re your comment:

"I can see aspects of her wanting the best for me and she shows up in very practical ways at times. For example if I've had a cough for a long time, she'll march me into the pharmacy and tell me to speak to the pharmacist, or if I haven't had time to get my hair cut because of the kids she will make an appointment for me and insist I go why she babysits".

She's trained you very well. That's her really swooping in to show you how "incapable" you are in her eyes; there's nothing nice about that. The narcissist's ability to pretend to care is infuriatingly deceptive. They wear the mask of empathy, mirror your emotions, offer ego-boosting compliments, perform superficial acts of kindness, manipulate your emotions, gaslight you, and ultimately discard you when they're done with you. She uses you liking of certain collectables against you as well.

You do realise it is not possible to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking. I would assume that trying to deal with your mother is like trying to deal with some six year old; your mother's emotional development stopped at around the age of six.

And I would keep her well away from your kids. If she is too difficult/toxic for YOU to deal with, its the SAME deal for your kids also.

@AttilaTheMeerkat@Nationaltrustme
that is an interesting post because my mother lost her beloved father aged 8 and it was handled badly ( as these things mostly were in those days with no.chance to express or deal with the grief) .
I have always felt she was massively damaged by this ( understandably) and it has caused issues throughout her life in terms of bring able to express unconditional love and express empathy etc. She has a v hard side to her which has impacted her children over the years So in some ways her emotional.development was arrested at age 8 .
.
My father had a horrific upbringing with massive physical.and emotional abuse to the extent that he was unable to attend school due to bruises ( and this in an era when no one cared what you did to your kids ). She tried to stab him more than once and the neighbours hid him. His mother was a v damaged woman with massive mental health damage and it made her a monster and his father was v handy with the belt as well.
My father rose above it to become a social worker and reached the v top of his profession but the scars showed and we experiences some physical.abuse at times ( though nothing like my dad did ). But he really did try to be a good dad and he was in many ways .

So yes it is hard because they both tried their best and were / are damaged people and of course it results in that well known pearl.of wisdom ....hurt people hurt people! .
All we can do is try to break the chain for our own kids and family.

PS how is @CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau
Don't seem.to have seen any posts from her. Hope you are OK x

Yes I definitely do know that we can't have a proper relationship with someone with such disordered thinking. I'm learning to handle these jarring emotions when she says something absolutely bonkers and normally quite hateful and looks at me like she has just asked if I'd like a cup of tea. I greyrock a lot and change the subject. Her emotions are definitely stunted at some stage in her formative years, for sure. I just find it very distressing when she makes a comment that is bonkers, particularly if it's used against me and I try to argue back using normal, rational lines of thinking. I feel like I'm trapped on some kind of crazy planet where the inhabitants all think I'm the mad one. Its unbelievably frustrating.

I don't think that she is a full blown narcissist, but someone who had a very traumatic life. I see aspects of what I see as the 'real' her shining through at times, parts of the person who she could have been had her life not been as dreadful as it was. I see some of the undamaged parts of her briefly, but they pass. I believe there are aspects of real love in there, but not enough. A few years ago we had a fall out and I toldmy dad that she doesn't love me in a normal way and he agreed.

My kids don't have much unsupervised contact with her but it is a relationship I want to facilitate as long as all parties enjoy it, and so far they seem to. It's closely managed, let's say. It's all sweets and TV and fluffy stuff like that. I let non importnat things go but know how to subtly step in if I see things going a certain way.

@flapjackfairy my mother also had an awful upbringing. A bad childhood can completely destroy a person, and their children too.

You cannot argue with the crazy maker in the shape of your mother. It’s not your fault that she is like this and you did not make her that way.

Do you not think you’ve had a traumatic life yourself as a result of all this from your mother?. Your feelings are important here so do not squash them and you bloody well do matter. You are far more than some bit part player with your mother being at the centre of her universe.

She may well have had a traumatic life but it’s no justification or excuse for how you have been and continue to be treated by her. You also in all likelihood do not treat your children like she does you.

She had a choice when it came to you and she’s chosen to inflict the same old that was done to her. The only people who actually bother with people like your mother are those who have received the Special Training ie the now adult child of said parent. You probably hope against bitter experience to the contrary that she will behave better with your kids this time around, it does not happen.

The problem with your kids seeing her is that they give your mother lots of nice gooey supply. The harm to them is being done right in front of your very eyes and it can be as subtle as a look from her, a pinch etc. it’s when they get older and start developing opinions of their own that do not align with her own warped views that further problems emerge. It would not surprise me if already she has a favourite ie the golden child and or plays one child off against the other. She could well try and steal their hearts and mind from under your very nose!.

Your dad acts out of self preservation and want of a quiet life, he has failed to protect you from the excesses of his wife’s behaviour.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thanks for your input. My mum was very violently assaulted as a child and she never laid a hand on us. Her parents also neglected her and put her down and she always made an effort to dress us nicely and compliment us. My grandparents took no interest in her education and mum always supported us to follow our interests and work hard at school. My grandparents took zero interest in my mother's skills or hobbies and she tried hard to go along with our interests.

I feel like i can look over my life and see the areas where I was manipulated and the areas where there was a true expression of love. I know she tried hard not to replicate her childhood in me. There were lots of moments of real tenderness that I know came from her heart and its kind of gaslighting in the other way to be told that my experience of sharing that love with my mum wasn't real (sorry, just being honest). That doesn't mean that she wasn't very damaged or that I became a victim to that, but I know she tried to stop the cycle. She just didn't have the self awareness to stop it more. I've gone up another level and invest into my kids emotional development much more. Maybe the undoing of generational habits happens in stages.

My mum did most of her weird stuff away from dad. Any time I ever told him what she did, he did go after her and confront her. He has also mediated a lot of our arguments but I never felt like he was looking the other way. He ceetainly isnt a quiet life kind of person and is very protective of me and I know he would pick me over her if push came to shove, but I try to keep him out as much as I can. My dad is actually quite hot headed and bullish so not the meek men that you usually hear about in these stories. Hoever, when be pulls her up on things, everything escalates and it's less stressful for me if I just let things go.

Sigh
Family dynamics can be complicated.

This whole cycle of abuse has stopped with and at you. Toxic Family dysfunction like described can and does go down the generations.

Children love their parents anyway no matter how crap they are and yes she could be nice sometimes. She enjoyed you more when you were young and far more malleable, it’s likely when you started to develop a mind of your own that things really changed. Her best was not good enough and she never thought to seek the necessary help. Again she had a choice when it came to you and she chose the low road. You adopted a different path re your children and that is to be commended.

How does everything escalate when your dad pulls her up on things? I think you will
find it will be easier if you stopped readily letting things go.

Where are your boundaries at re your mother? Where do you want to go from
here re her? At the very least the amount of time you spend with her needs to be decreased. You will also in time need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

@Nationaltrustme hello! Reading your posts is like reading about my own terrible mother. Especially the importance she places on being kind (she's not), and open minded (definitely not!), being of practical help but not emotionally safe, tonight people to shreds after being nice to their faces, diagnosing people with mental disorders

(She worked with special needs children , starting from when I was 10. She started calling me autistic. Like teasingly 'you are sooo autistic ' 'come on my little autistic chum' 'sheldon Cooper'. She's been doing this for 30 years. During lockdown I had a nervous breakdown, a lot of therapy and was referred for an autism assessment, which I eventually had at the start of 2023. I am autistic, but the people doing my assessment had to take extra time to decide if my traits were down to childhood trauma or autism. My terrible mother knows nothing about this at all, I'm sure she would be absolutely thrilled to find out and spread the news and be proved right.)

Also relate to the part about your mother not liking you. When I was moving in my my fiance, she was alone in the car with him and said 'Greggsvegansausageroll is really difficult to live with, I'm here if you ever need to talk' That was the turning point for me. I'm very low contact, despite making the mistake of living round the corner from her, and have done lots of therapy about having neutral reactions to her and detaching myself.

I don't really have any advice, but wanted to show solidarity as we seem to have had the same mothers 😅

That should say tearing people to shreds, darn autocorrect.

@tonewbeginnings @user8800
There must be a chapter or two in the Complete Guide For Narc Family Members On How To Fuck Up Your Family on optimum death bed scenes and grave side photography, including tips on lighting, costume and suggested accompanying social media wording for maximum drama and batshittery.

@Morecatsarebetter
Thank you. The Hag in Oscar winning fucking your family up form has made Mr Monkey executator and sole beneficiary, despite having two brothers. There may be storms ahead from one of them (Golden Boy) over this new development.

It was thought the money would be £7k, but it's more likely to be £15k (no house), which it makes it even more galling for MM to have stood by for years whilst she's dressed in rags, has ripped carpets, refused to have a social life, furniture etc. It would have been very easy to pick up a second hand sofa and armchair at British Heart Foundation getting something decent and supporting a charity at the same time. She refused. Better to live a shit life.

I was at her flat yesterday sorting stuff out and it was grim.

@Parentalalienation
Thank you.
It has been exhausting, but the therapy has really, really helped Mr Monkey. This forum is a life line.

@TheShellBeach

The events are about confirming who they are - top billing - controlling the narrative.

I've seen it to some extent with Mr Monkey and him organising family get togerthers with his cousins to demonstrate to his mother that there is a family. She came out with classics over the years that she had no family because ‘our XXXX isn't here’ referring to Golden Boy who had just disappeared…despite ‘worshipping his mother’.

post funeral there will be once again no contact with Golden Boy. Contact right now is perfunctory and practical. He's attempting mind games (he has the genes), but no one will play. He's probably being vile to Trophy Wife 2 in pure rage at no one captitulating. Brothers are not in contact in the way he wants, sons don't want to know him. Total dick.

Your sisters are also doing the ‘look at me the Queen Bee’ and without an admiring audience, it falls flat.

Good on you for not going and doing things you want to do.

@Spencer0220
He's a part time veggie. I watched him eat a steak last night with much Guinness to wash it down. He needed it. He looks exhausted. Need to check those sausages out!

@Nationaltrustme

Huge hugs to you. It sounds like a horrible experience for you. I'm so sorry. You are so wise to have very low contact with her. Have you had counselling to support you? It's very complex to know about your mum’s childhood (you empathasise) and having had very poor parenting experiences with her. Well done on breaking the cycle. I'm glad your dad sees it, he must love a great deal. You will get a great deal of support here. Sending love.

@GreggsVeganSausageRoll your mother sounds exactly like my older sister, even down to the teaching of special needs kids.

@GreggsVeganSausageRoll Oh yes, the ripping people apart behind their backs - it’s so normal to me I don’t think about how awful it is.

Something I do see though, she’s on high alert if I had any communication or contact with a person she knows. Straight away she’ll say ‘be careful, they’re just nosey’, or ‘you weren’t talking about me were you, don’t be talking about me’, and ‘why are they bothering with you, they’ve got no time for you normally’.
As you can imagine, I never talk about her to anyone in any context, when I confirm I haven’t she’s slightly put out, and makes out like I’m lying.
I really appreciate the support I get on here 💐

I feel like i can look over my life and see the areas where I was manipulated and the areas where there was a true expression of love. I know she tried hard not to replicate her childhood in me. There were lots of moments of real tenderness that I know came from her heart and its kind of gaslighting in the other way to be told that my experience of sharing that love with my mum wasn't real (sorry, just being honest). That doesn't mean that she wasn't very damaged or that I became a victim to that, but I know she tried to stop the cycle. She just didn't have the self awareness to stop it more.

I'm so glad you've written this, @Nationaltrustme. I am in a similar dynamic with my mother.

Obviously some people are irretrievably appalling, but others cause damage and are damaged and flawed themselves, but - as you say - it doesn't mean they haven't shown genuine love and care at other times. Denying that doesn't help us. There is sometimes nuance. In other situations there may be no nuance.

I can see how we might have to be very black and white in dealing with a narcissistic parent, but our thinking doesn't have to be so reductive.

In some ways it doesn't make it any easier as you're in a double bind.

@MonkeyfromManchester Linda McCartney has an excellent range.

Steak is amazing. I'm due one too.

In spite of all the issues with my sister, I'm trying to help her at the moment. Her eldest has autism and ADHD. He's started self harm to get sent home from school. Quite understandably she is in pieces.

My best friend has a SEN child at a special school, so I've organised to get with her at some point today and ask for help/advice navigating.

It's also put a lot into focus for me. A lot of anger I have towards DSis should probably be directed at DM. DM has a habit of avoiding conflict to the point that she doesn't share USEFUL information. Like, I was absolutely raging that yet again, she chose Mother's Day at my sister's without me.

Finally spoke to my sister, and it turns out she'd love to see me around Mother's Day, but is so exhausted by her eldest son, that she can't face trying to drag him to our mum's for a lunch with everyone. If DM had just said something I'd have understood.

We had similar at Christmas, I got upset when we couldn't attend the family Christmas Eve party. Finally my mother said she didn't have time to fetch us on that day, because lunch was a very short event this year because their other grandmother had booked to take the boys somewhere. So it wasn't the normal party. Of course, we understood, and party held 23rd.

But I just wish she'd be open and honest. It's exhausting.

Hello everybody 👋 I am new here and have a question. A bit of a taboo question perhaps because it involves money!

Is anyone here in a financially poor position and are helped by a narcissist parent?

I would like to distance myself further as I am really struggling even with low contact but worry a bit about the fallout a) her sulky reaction and b) if the £ help was dropped.

I should probably see a therapist for this as this seems to be really coming to a head for me.

Thank you for listening.

@Nationaltrustme welcome and so much of what you say rings true about my own mother. She had me well trained to be under her control and when I started to realise how toxic she and the rest of my FOO were, skin and hair flew at things that most people find ordinary. Example: meeting work friends to go shopping and for tea after school. I'd bought something and had it on when she called round. She went ballistic that I had been shopping without her!
Also being told to not say things/being quizzed about what I'd said to people who knew her. Now I know that was purely to make sure I'd not let cats slip and her lies become apparent.

Hi @BrownFurBunny welcome and you'll find your kin here.
I think anything that reduces your parents hold over you is a good thing. You already know that stopping accepting their financial help is going to not go down well. It's your adult life and your choice how to live it. You know they're likely to sulk but that's their choice. I think therapy would help in working out the trauma you've experienced. It certainly helped me.

Narcissist parents can love their children but that love is not unconditional love.

A narcissist parent sees the child as an extension of them. This becomes apparent when the well being of the child should be out first, as this is not something they are capable of doing.

That money being provided is further being used as a means to control you with Brownfurbunny. Drop the rope here, accept no more financial help which also makes you feel obligated to her.

I would be prepared for contact from flying monkeys sent in by her to do her bidding.

Dr Ramani on YouTube is a useful resource.

I know how narcissists can be about money and am also familiar with Dr Ramani, HG Tudor and just about every book on the subject.

But if one is broke for reasons outside your control I’d say it’s more tricky. I wondered if anyone has been in a similar position? but I suppose everyone is different even in those personal circumstances.

Regardless, reflecting on this today I have decided to go for some therapy again as might help me deal with this more easily. Let’s hope so 🤲 Best wishes to all who are dealing with such difficult parents.

It generally turns into a huge row. It's definitely not easier than letting things go. When she annoys me I just take a moment and think 'and that's why you'll not see me for another 6 months' and smile. I used to be very reactive and would respond to the craziness but now I change the subject and talk about the price of milk. She definitely sees me as an extention of myself.

My boundaries are that I live far away and am low contact. I don't rise to her strange comments and if she makes any digs I greyrock, change the subject and make my excuses to leave. She has held way back over the past few years especially since I'm less reactive.

What do I want from the thread. I wanted some solidarity from people like me, who didn't have outright abusive parents or a really.miserable upbringing, but who had complicated, difficult relationships with a parent that weren't all bad. I don't consider my upbringing abusive but I do see howni was impacted by my mother's damaged personality, especially as I began to individuate from her. There was always an implication that her emotions were at the centre of the family but I've come to see that actually mine are just as valid.

I think I would like advice on how to respond to someone who thinks they are right, when they are wrong. Something up my sleeve that doesn't require too much emotional fortitude to pull out if needed.