January 2024 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie
Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826?amp%3Bascsubtag=mnforum-

@NeedAnUpgrade

Thank you x

@REP22

Thank you. I'm going to have to keep my mouth zipped. I think most people knew she was a fucking nightmare TBH, but history gets rewritten and people feel they have to be ‘nice’. Your neighbour sounds like a peach!

@Sicario
Thank you. I think it is going to be a time of conflicting emotions. MM is very clear about he knows she was a bad and abusive parent, but at the same time it's the trauma bond.

God knows what Slave Son is going to do.

Maybe he can go on the Norwegian Cruise he always wanted, see his friends without interference, buy a flat that's safe to live in, buy a mobility scooter and an adapted car. All the stuff he knew the Hag wouldn’t let him do. Such was her selfishness and control and his stupid obedience. Too late for him to find a relationship as she made him her de facto husband since 1980s.

Your sister!!! Words fail me at her utter selfishness. These people!!! FFS.

What a rollercoaster you've been on, @MonkeyfromManchester. You both must be absolutely drained.

Sending love and thoughts, @MonkeyfromManchester I'm glad it didn't take too long for all your sakes.
I agree about getting the council or whoever to sort out the flat once you've got the charity stuff out.

@MonkeyfromManchester My thoughts are with you and MM.

I hope the funeral can be arranged quickly and you can both start to move on with your lives. I also hope (and yes, pray) that MM doesn't go down the route my partner has since his mother died, putting the deceased (and his father, who is the main problem) up on pedestals and forgetting the truth of their married life together. I've said it so often in the four months since (to my best friend I can trust not to repeat it to my partner) that I've had to bite my tongue so often it's a colander!

@MonkeyfromManchester my deepest condolences to you and Mr. M from me and DH.

I'm just glad it was swift. And hopefully painless.

Sending condolences to you & Mr M @MonkeyfromManchester
Wishing you both a peaceful, happy new beginning.

Thinking of you and Mr M @MonkeyfromManchester The end of the long road you've been on is in sight, but there's a fairly bumpy part to go through first. Hang in there, you have plenty of supporters here rooting for you and Mr M. I truly hope he doesn't somehow decide that idealising his "mother" is a good idea, it would be very hard for you to deal with that I imagine. Good to know he will be back in counselling soon - I wonder if a session or two might be helpful for you as well, not in terms of dealing with the hag passing away, but re how Mr M copes. Wishing you peace and strength.

Sending you love, Monkey.
It's been a long, hard road for you both.

@MonkeyfromManchester delurking to send you and MM my love and sympathies. You are one strong woman, I'm sure the coming weeks and months will be difficult sending you love and strength. Xxxxx

another one sending love and best wishes for the road ahead x

@SarahC50 thank you. Sometimes I've felt so vulnerable, but she met her match in me. I was not going to be another victim of her relentless nastiness.

@flapjackfairy thank you.

What a day.

There needs to be an inquest because she fell at home. WTAF. I'm stepping well away from that.

She has also left all her cash to Mr Monkey.

Slave Son has money so he's not bothered. Golden Boy is going to go ballistic. MM could swerve GB’s bleating demand for cash and give nephews, even GB’s daughter some £££.

GB doesn't deserve a penny. He's a selfish twat who walked out on his sons and tried to take the family home. SIL didn't contest his savings or big fat pension. Fuck him, frankly.

@MonkeyfromManchester
Yet another one sending love and best wishes to you both for your future.
It will be an emotional time for the two of you for a while - make sure you both look after yourselves by resting, eating, going for walks etc.
Very glad Mr Monkey is being proactive and thinking of going to the GP and getting bereavement counselling; he will need support on coping with the finality her death as well as with the memories/ consequences of her life & behaviour.
Very glad too that you have Mummy Monkey there for emotional and practical support. I am sure that she will be glad to have the chance to support you.
It may not be an easy time in the near future, but focus on taking care of your selves and on the golden long term - that you now have the opportunity of a calm contented future together.

Oh monkey! It never ends does it?

I hope it's a fast one.

Re: inquest : I think that's usual procedure, but I can understand why it feels like even more distress for you.

They will see how she chose to live, how she refused carers/help etc and how she was in hospital refusing op etc

I imagine, sadly, they see this a lot.

Fuck GB! Let him contest the will if he's that bothered...it'll cost him ££££ and he won't win.

Money is all my own siblings care about, so I sympathise.

My sister has asked mum out for a meal on mother's day - the first time in years - and mum is so pathetically grateful it's quite sad.

Maybe one of my other siblings will take her for Easter!? :)

Do you think GB thinks there's a lot more money than there actually is??

One of my siblings is going to get a real shock! 😁

I'll actually get to spend mother's day how I want for the first year in a decade 😁

@farnworth thank you. I'm so lucky to have Mummy Monkey as she's sane. Unlike many of the parents we deal with! Going to bed and then getting a lush takeaway later.

@Spencer0220 I think it will be quick. Little old lady and broken hip.

@user8800 they must see the self-neglect all the time. It's pathetic that this is a weapon to attack your children. Vile.

Be interesting to see what GB does. I reckon he got his fingers burnt with all the legal fees - absolute thousands - when trying to get his wife and kids out of the family home. I think gifting his kids £ from the estate us the moral thing to do, God knows his reaction to that. I think he probably thinks more £. It's 7 Grand. Dick.

Hurrah for getting out of mother’s day. Easter must be sibling duty. Another day in the grim calendar. Hag made that a weapon too. We could treat my mum to lunch, get her gifts, but Hag would be a martyr. Don't get me anything, sniff.

During lockdown and Hag was here and HORRIBLE, I made a huge fuss of my mum and ostestentially wrapped my mum’s gift in the living room.

Hag was saying it must be so hard to be apart from your mum. My mum then rocked up, stood on the doorstep (not in our bubble) We went for a walk in the pissjng rain and had cake on a bench. Far nicer.

I hope you get a bottle of something decent too, @MonkeyfromManchester.

I don't post much, but wanted to send some love to @MonkeyfromManchester and family. Hope you all get some rest and recuperation in now xx

Thoughts with you @MonkeyfromManchester. I've been reading along, all your updates. Told with such honesty always. Fingers crossed you can plan some nice things for yourself, Mr monkey and mummy monkey when you are strong enough to enjoy them. Take care of yourself while you are holding strong for Mr monkey . I don't think he will pedestal the hag. He's learnt too much and come too far. You make it real. Therapy will help him remember al that I'm sure

Wishing you peace Monkey

@MonkeyfromManchester Another lurker wishing you and MM all the best.

@MonkeyfromManchester - delurking also to wish your and MM's family well in your time of bereavement and whilst you all recover from what your MIL put you all through all these years. Take your time. Look after yourselves.

Monkey- I’ve been following your posts since the start and I’ve learnt so much from you and this page. I must admit I’ve laughed so much at your sense of humour too. I was thinking of you over Xmas and hoped you and mm was having a nice Christmas. Thought I’d pop on to see how you both were and that was Wednesday! Sending my thoughts to you both . Hope mm is ok and holds his head high as a great son . I hope you stay on this page too given us a update as to how you both are x

@MonkeyfromManchester thinking of you and MM in your bereavement and recovery. 🤗

All the best to you MonkeyfromManchester and to MM.

@PeoniesLilac

@GreggsVeganSausageRoll

@HatchlingDragon

@Schneekugel

@SplendidUtterly

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom

@MintyChops

@tonewbeginnings

Thank you so much, lovely people.

@Ydkiml
I think being to laugh sometimes at how batshit the Hag has got me through.

In this bereavement I feel nothing about toxic MIL The Hag’s death. I feel incredibly sorry for Mr Monkey who's dealing with the sadness of her death, but his feelings as a survivor of physical and emotional abuse as a child. The physical stuff stopped from her when he was in his teens. The emotional abuse stayed. The full extent of it all only really came out in 2021 and since then Mr Monkey’s been on a journey of spotting the manipulation, saying NO to her, going low contact and therapy. It has been HELL.

Getting on with stuff. Mummy Monkey and I are going to tackle Hag’s clothes and personal effects in her flat today. I want to take a flamethrower to her disgusting falling apart sofa. The place is clean, but absolutely sparse with everything broken or ripped to shreds.

In all the conversations with MM over the last 48 hours, he's gone back to the sadness he feels for the crap life she made for herself, but says he couldn't do any more than he could. He couldn't.

All the damage she inflicted. MM with mental health issues, Slave Son with no life as he was caring for her.

Golden Boy (total narc chip off the block) hadn't been in contact with anyone, including ‘the mother I worshipped’, for seven years is doing a good job in being a selfish, game playing prick of a replacement.

He walked out on his kids and now is trying to lure them back into his life. Younger son (20) has him blocked and says he will be civil at the funeral, but has no wish to converse beyond a ‘condolence’

Eldest son (22) has mild learning difficulties and is more easily manipulated. Golden Boy is now texting elder nephew to invite him for a pint. Hilarious as that nephew doesn't drink and isn't comfortable in pubs. But GB can only think on his terms.

GB texts Mr Monkey to say “I've texted X five times and he's not got back to me.” Is MM supposed to ring X and say “I command you as your uncle to go and have a pint with your Dear Papa.” He hasn't, obviously, but has kept in touch with eldest nephew with supportive texts as he's struggling with the death. MM hasn't replied to the texts.

Not one word of genuine checking in from GB. And he didn't even ask about complex dental work that his son has had at a cost of two grand. Of course, he's not paid a penny for that. Obviously, GB knows he's going to be the pariah at the funeral - and everyone thinks he's a shit - and needs someone ‘on his side’ so butter up his son in advance. He’ll drop him again once his usefulness has passed. Such a twat.

Some classics on Golden Boy are now emerging from sister in law, his ex-wife, beyond what we already knew about the sexual, physical and emotional abuse, bringing two prostitutes into the house when she was overseas attending her dad’s funeral with her children etc etc etc.

The best was her recounting the time when he tried for a reconciliation, just swanned into the house after having been out of contact for six months, thought he was going to sleep in the marital bedroom (which she refused) and she put him in younger neohew’s room (he was about 12). She got so alarmed by his behaviour that she managed to get him out of the house and changed the locks. She was tidying up the bedroom where GB had been sleeping and found a syringe and other drug paraphanelia under her kid’s bed. FFS. He's a highly paid executuve (or was until he embezzled his business partner), but it would seem fallen on hard times.

The Hag created that son as he was allowed to do whatever he wanted.

There's going to be some money grabbing going on as MM is the sole beneficiary. Going to be fun to watch. Pull up a chair, get the 🍿