January 2024 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie
Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826?amp%3Bascsubtag=mnforum-

You've got this @mm 👊

YOU COULDN’T MAKE THIS SHIT UP.

Mr Monkey popped over to the hospital and texted me. The discharge team are now saying “she’s too ill to move”. Does that mean today? Or ever?

Last time I looked I wasn't a medical professional, but it was obvious to ME and Mr Monkey that she's too ill to move.

MM is there every day and it's obvious to him that she's detiorating. She can't speak above a whisper.

So, we've had a day of stress because of the discharge team’s idiocy. Good job I've not started the email to the social workers.

FFS.

Honestly monkey that's one heck of a roller coaster going on today for you. I hope the discharge team keep on seeing sense about not moving her. Although I think she's so far gone now the move might actually finish her off.
I wonder if it's the same discharge lot who tried to send my nan back home after she almost died in the care home and ended up in hospital. We got the whole 'what mum wants' spiel which was ridiculous when there was a court order that she had to live in that care home!
You and Mr Monkey take care and stay strong.

Stand firm, Monkey!
They can't send her home if she has nobody to care for her, can they?

Oh well. You reap what you sow, as they say. Cow.

@Parentalalienation

Exhausted by it. Trying to do a full day of work with all this shit going on. Good grief that’s appalling with regard to your Nan.

@TheShellBeach
She's not going anywhere!

Last night, I had Mr Monkey expressing guilt about not seeing her at Xmas - the week before she had screamed some horrible things at me and he agreed that Xmas was no t being spent with her - and not helping her more. I'm trying to be kind, but I said guilt is a pointless emotion and all of this stuff she brought on herself by being horrible to people no one wanted to spend time with her. I reminded him that she was an abusive parent and abusive in old age.

She has indeed reaped what she sowed.

@MonkeyfromManchester You reap what you sow is my favourite saying. I've often (half) seriously said I'm going to get it as a tattoo somewhere on my body...

My MIL died suddenly 4 months ago. I've been NC with her and FIL (mainly because of him) for 9 and a half years. The Christmas before she died MrRider tried to get me to speak to her on the phone...and I refused.

I've had the odd moment of guilt about that since she died. Then I remind myself that guilt in this situation is pointless, as there's no way to change it. I had no idea at the time it was going to be her last Christmas, and frankly even if I had I still wouldn't wanted to have spoken to her. I had (have) very good reasons for being NC with MrRider's parents and her death has changed nothing.

I hope you are all ok
I spent most of today feeling sick and teary (have been quite strong lately)
I have a lovely dh and children and career but it cuts me up my own mother is silent and has never been loving.

@Ewoklady Your post resonated with me. My mother also says horrible things to me, turns nasty from nowhere, withdraws any ‘help’ that she feels I’m relying on her for. I have never relied on her for anything because it’s all about control. She likes to point out that I have no decent friends (unlike her), likes to rip my friends apart and remind me of all the times they’ve let me down or not stepped up, claims mutual friends as her friends that I’m stealing because I can’t make my own friends, says I’m possessive over my friends and won’t let her meet them (I wonder why).
She also has massive hang ups over what other people think of her. So if I’m wearing a certain jumper people will think bad of her (I’m 45 !). If I do or don’t go to an event, people will think bad of her, and she’ll end up with no friends thanks to me. These are small, irrelevant things that no one cares about, but it will lead to a nasty telling off and she won’t talk to me for weeks or months.
I enjoy these silences more these days, it’s peaceful with no second guessing myself. I’ve blocked her in SM because she says nasty things about my posts and comments. She hates this, apparently I’m weird and secretive. I’ve blocked her on WhatsApp because I don’t want her nasty messages telling me about my disgusting behaviour. She’s always threatening to phone up my work to tell them about the real me. She says it’s no wonder I can’t get on with anyone (Ive had horrendous DV so find peace at home with my dogs).
I can’t speak to anyone in real life about her, she can’t bear being spoken about, so it’s drilled into me not to tell.
She’s mostly lovely with other people, very helpful and kind. No one knows what it’s like.

We are the same age moaning and I am awake late now worrying about it all. What people will think of me. She has put me in a difficult position as I am a good person (I think) doing a horrible thing by not contacting her (though she has ignored my last message)

I feel evil for not seeing my own mother but I agree about enjoying the peace
keep strong !!

@Ewoklady @Moaning5 I could be reading about own mum there. Nasty out of nowhere for some imagined slight against her, has tried and failed to fip my friends apart before and tried to make out that they are not really my friends etc. I did not want to bring up a gift at my grandmothers funeral - people will see that as a slight on her. I didnt go to my brothers wedding - somehow this makes her look bad. It is always and always has been the 'all about mum' show. Also have her blocked on sm for same reasons. God they really are just one hive mind.

@Ewoklady
Hugs to you. You are really not a bad person for not wanting to have contact with someone who abuses you.

@Moaning5
The game of the abuser presenting a kindly face to the world whilst abusing their families is something many posters talk about here. It's so common. I've seen it with my MIL The Hag. She does in mid-breath, being vile to her sons and then sweetness and light to nurse/doctor/carer/shopworker. It's so obvious and, yet, deeply upsetting to see. It's so disrespectful.

News here.

The hag died this morning at 12.30am. Mr Monkey was here and he got the call from the hospital. I feel nothing, apart from terrible sadness for MM. Relieved TBH. Much as I disliked her, she had no quality of life from when she went into hospital 2 weeks ago and it's a blessing. Of course, she'd been destroying her life and those of others for years.

I'm going to take the day off work and be here for MM. He didn't sleep a wink and is exhausted. He's sad about the way she engineered her life to be as shit as possible and dreading the cleaning out of her filthy flat.

@MonkeyfromManchester I’ve followed your journey for some time and learned so much from you. Although this is the end for her I’d imagine the next months will be tough for MM to process how vile she’s been.
Wishing you peace, light and new beginnings.

@Fluffygoon thank you. My god, it has been so tough over the last few years as I've dealt with her abuse once her mask slipped with me. I've dealt with the fall out from her abuse to her children since Mr Monkey and I got together in 2004. His upbringing was terrible.

He's been talking about seeing his great GP and getting grief counselling. I know he'll do it. His proper therapy for CPTSD starts again in April.

Thank you so much for the good wishes. Xxx

@mm Sending love to you and MrM xxxx

@MonkeyfromManchester I am relieved it is over for you. Time to start healing xx
Edited: just a thought can you pay someone to just go in and take entire contents to the council tip?

MonkeyfromManchester I've just seen your news. Best for all, I'm thinking. I wish you and Mr Monkey well.

@MonkeyfromManchester seen your posts over the years and just wanted to send best wishes to you.

Monkey

My best wishes to both you and MM.

@MonkeyfromManchester

My huge condolences to you both. Her death will be a relief but also a rollercoaster of emotions for MrM and no doubt you too.

I wish you a new beginning of a life of peace and love together xx

Thinking of you and MM @MonkeyfromManchester x

Hi, MM, condolences to you and Mr M.

As for the flat, can you get a house clearance company in? they'll deal with the filth and it will mean Mr M doesn't have the emotional turmoil of dealing with it which frankly, he doesn't need of top of everything else right now.

Thank you so much @user8800 @LadyMacbethssweetArabianhand @AttilaTheMeerkat @Davina69 @Genuineweddingone
Your support is wonderful.

@binkie163 mummy monkey has offered to help with the flat. TBH there's nothing much in it. Just sort out the many unused gifts stashed in her spare room and donate to charity. Donate the cooker/washing machine (wm never used, obviously) to charity. Make good things come out of an appalling situation which she created for herself. It's a council flat and I think they have a service to take the left behind stuff away.

Golden Boy - the grasping twat - is probably imagining untold riches.

@MonkeyfromManchester I haven’t posted much on here but have followed what has happened recently.
Just wanted to send best wishes to you and MM.

@MonkeyfromManchester It's over, at last. I wish you and MM strength for what is to come in the short term and peace for the lives that can now begin.

I expect it will be utterly awful, having to listen to glowing eulogies and attempts to rewrite or diminish the awful truth (even though MM was making such headway and SS was reduced to a shell of a man). Stay strong - we are all with you.

I am sure there are those (abused carers, neighbours, etc.) who will also feel a release in their own peripheral ways from The Hag's passing.

Sending love and virtual gin. Look after yourself. xx

P,S, I'm fairly certain that the council WILL be able to step in to help clear/remove/recycle the flat. I'm a HA tenant and mine certainly did when my ex ne'er-do-well neighbours did a moonlight flit. Cleared the whole place out and fumigated it twice (lovely), all done within two days. x

@MonkeyfromManchester - I expect Mr M will go through a lot of conflicting emotions now that it's over. Hopefully he and is brothers can hand over to a good funeral director who will then take care of everything in an expedient manner. Getting the funeral over with asap is a good call.

My own Highly Toxic Sister left our mother in the hospital morgue for a month as she decided the best thing she could do was fuck off on a 2 week holiday because "she couldn't cope with any of it". Didn't tell anyone of course, and I was not allowed to "interfere" with Toxic Sister's (lack of) arrangements.

I hope you and Mr M are able to spend a peaceful period of mourning and look towards a brighter future. Sending peace and love.