January 2024 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie
Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826?amp%3Bascsubtag=mnforum-

Just to say that I'm going to pray for a peaceful, swift end for the Hag. It might drag on for a month but for your sakes I hope not.
Thinking of you @MonkeyfromManchester

Ach MonkeyfromManchester a quick, quiet end is what I hope for so that Mr monkey can begin to recover. I wish you peace. Golden Balls brother will be looking for inheritance stuff if he's skint.
My brother told me week before last he didn't want joint guardianship for mum and turned up at my door yesterday asking what my lawyer had said. 🙄Then mum's social worker phoned today despite me saying I'm not available to talk on Monday and Tuesday (grandsons childcare). I didn't pick up. Everybody wants a piece of me! I'm tired and a bit run down
I really hope she goes quicker Monkey. I'm thinking of you

@MonkeyfromManchester I have got to ask, which lucky brother will inherit the armchair? Will it fit in GB car?

@Parentalalienation

I pray for a swift exit. I’m a strategic thinker, so thinking clear out of the minging flat. Paying someone for that. Man, van and flame thrower.

However, a certain amount of curation is planned. I will save the scabby armchair. This means that I can raffle the disgusting armchair.

Ladies, my tombola has spun…and the lucky winner is @binkie163

What’s your address?

@LadyMacbethssweetArabianhand
I’m so sorry you’re exhausted. It’s a nightmare dealing with this stuff anyway without a load of dodgy family dynamics on top like a rotten cherry. Your brother is a piece of work!

I have no doubt GB is thinking £££. There’s £7k in an account for her sons. She kept telling us as the will has been used as a bribe. We don’t give a fuck. Don’t have a lot of £££, but being held to ransom for 2k was not going to happen.

The one thing I would like is for Golden Boy to give his sons his cut, but that’s not going to happen.

I imagine GB is now forced to live off his not insubstantial savings as he embezzled his business partner. His sector is tiny, gossipy and he’ll have been blackballed.

Mr Monkey has cheered up, he’s processed it all.

@MonkeyfromManchester yaaaaaay I have never won a tombola. I am thinking of donating it to the design museum 224 Kensington High street, they will be thrilled 😂

@binkie163 👏👏👏 they will be thrilled! Her living like that makes me sad-angry. She could have had a much better life. Such a waste.

@mm I'm also hoping for a quick end for the hag. Not for her...for you both x

I'm wrung out. Very difficult meeting today. I think I'm nearing the end of my time in charge of this group. Which is a very freeing thought!

Monkey I thought about what you said about support being all one way. Initially I got confused because I thought there has been support on the few life-or-death occasions I've asked for it. Then I realised it was only ever the barest minimum of crumbs I received, grudgingly given, used to control me and then held against me. That's why I never ask for support any more, I've been trained not to. Yet from early childhood I was expected to provide emotional support for the parent and tiptoe round their emotions. This has led to a lifetime of people pleasing and attracting emotionally needy folk, users and emotional drains. I can see you're right, it is all one way.

@user8800 how truly, truly awful for your FIL to have done that.

I hope nobody else has elected for him to be the on call person??

@binkie163 I haven’t tried somatic yoga but yoga has helped me a lot. I started having severe panic attacks in my early 20s and then became physically quite ill by my mid 20s. I had so many symptoms, was at the GP a lot and had been prescribed a few medications. No real root cause was found to all my symptoms and the medications only helped a bit. So I started exploring alternatives- yoga, hypnotherapy, meditation and eventually therapy. All of it helped and I began discovering I had some sort of trauma going on. I started with yoga and one very surprising thing that happened was that I would be in floods of tears by the end of each class - I was quite embarrassed by this and would make a dash out of the class as soon as it finished! It all makes sense in hindsight that my body was holding on to so much pain.

Someone talked about constantly grieving and I still have a big cry now (in my 40s) about it all. I had one long cry yesterday in fact. Healing is an ongoing process. One thing I feel incredibly annoyed about is how long it took me to go LC and NC - not doing it was self sabotage. I am still learning to like and love myself. Being treated as a scapegoat since I was so little means that I have extremely low esteem - something I have been working on my whole adult life.

I should add that all the physical issues I had went away with the combination of yoga, meditation and therapy. I ended up changing my diet too as I started feeling better. One of the issues I had developed was an under active thyroid and I was on medication for a year. This also went! My GP at the time said ‘we’ll see how long that lasts’ - it’s been 15 years and I still get it tested every year.

So the body does keep the score for sure. One thing I found was that my body was also a way to discover my trauma.

One, but they are in a home now, thankfully

Well, I think I've hit a brick wall today 😞
Utterly exhausted
Worrying about things I can't change/affect
I've got some sort of muscular arm thing going on, which is surprisingly painful 😒
I'm having a stay at home day today
I'm also planning my retreat from a role I've held for 4 years.
Time to take time for me

user8800 so sorry to read you’re struggling 😞

Some days the pain gets really unbearable, doesn’t it?

I think it’s really good that you’ve recognised that you’re at your limit and you must rest today and get some strength back! ❤️

Well in a turn of events last night my sister videocalled me out of the blue. She wanted to talk logically apparently about everything but bad bad me had a glass of wine in her hand ONE fucking glass after dinner on a bank holiday monday which I think I am bloody entitled to so she couldnt talk to me as she is 'triggered' when I drink. I dunno what triggers her and I could not tell you the last time I chatted to her on the phone or in person with or without a drink ffs but shes so brainwashed by my mother at this point. Anyway she spoke briefly to my son and then asked me about my relationship (my mother and her practically were giddy when I initially told them we had split up but then we did actually try again and I never told them that did not work) but I refused to talk about him and then my phone died. My son rang her back to say my phone has died and I woke this morning to a message accusing me of drinking so much I passed out and the phone dropped. Jesus h.

@Genuineweddingone - do not take the bait. Your sister was looking for a way "in" so that she could poke the bear. No good will come of it, but you already know that.

@tonewbeginnings - my goodness! I also had that thing about crying when I first started doing yoga. Sobbing by the end of the session. Yes, the body keeps score and has to find a physical release. Yoga and meditation was the start my healing.

@tonewbeginnings thanks for that, Iv done yoga for a long time especially since judo & running became impractical. My thyroid was removed 2009 so my joints/energy suffered.
Some good somatic YouTube videos, I do daily yoga. Having seen my parents lose their mobility, not through disability but lack of gentle stretch/walking. My mum refused to engage with her physio and seeing her bored and joyless just plonked in her chair the last 12 years is a motivator for me.
As a child I refused to cry when beaten, terrorized or humiliated, I only cry when angry or frustrated, so I have an unhealthy relationship with my emotions. I will let you know if somatic yoga releases anything for me.
@Genuineweddingone jeeeez tell your sister [mum mark 11] to jog on. I hung up on a friend Monday night after 30 mins of emotionally unloading on me. Her adult kids don't want anything to do with her after their traumatic childhoods, I mean honestly I am not the best person to drop that shit on, I know how they feel.
@user8800 I hope you get some rest/peace today x

Thank you all x

God @genuine what a witch! I hope you gain the strength to go NC. These people sound unhinged!

I feel a bit better than earlier. Thank you.

It's been a really stressful 2 weeks, but plans are now in place to improve things so 🤞

Dc1 had a very busy week last week and is really tired.

Dc2 is at an important interview today, and I can't settle at all 😩

It's going to be a long day!

Love to all x

It is just annoying because when she says she wants to talk what she wants me to do is roll over and go 'ok I have a problem and the rest of you have always been right' but I wont. I have been a yes person all my life but I am now a grown fucking adult and will not be treated like a child. My family have learned from her manipulation.

Example. One year about maybe 6 years ago say I drove to another county on xmas day which I did for years and collected my very drunk brother from his girlfriends house and drove us all to my dads place for xmas dinner. My brother drank more in dads and then we all got in the car (me, brother, sister, my son) to go to my mums as this was the plan. We get to mums, brother who had been drinking from 11am poured a glass of wine and I asked him then to pour me my first one of the day (it was around 7 or 8pm and I was staying in my mums) and he poured it then pointedly looked at my sister and said 'now thats where the arguements start' basically manipulating my sister into thinking becasue I was about to have a drink I was going to start a row. Nothinkg to do with him being absolutely off his head drunk by this point and an 'argument' ensued as in he berated me for a lot of things -

• You brought shame on the family being a single parent (I was 32 with my own career, home etc when I fell pregnant and ex fucked off)
• You are a single parent therefore you are getting child benefit and 'living off the state' using MY tax payers money (I get child benefit as does every single family including the wealthy like say bono etc as this is what happens in Ireland, The only time I was on benefits was 2 months when i took unpaid parental leave from work and I have worked full time since I was 17 and got a top up benefit of 38euro a week for both those months presumably from my own tax payments.
• I am a manipulator and use tears to manipulate - this is because I broke down in tears when all of this was thrown at me as I dont like conflict
• I am a liar because I once agreed when asked if my dad had had an affair and I said yes cos I wasnt going to lie. My father said it was not true so therefore I 'saw things that never happened' but unfortunately I very much saw things that happened and just because he would not admit it does not make me the liar
• I attention seek and love the spotlight - I have never had a birthday party and had the smallest wedding on the planet because i HATE people looking at me

So yeah anyway he roared and screamed, I went to bed, the next day he did call and apologise however somehow it was still all my fault in the eyes of the family. I am dicing with demons.

@Genuineweddingone Honestly fuck all of them, they sound batshit but obviously trying to keep you in line.
Your sister can sort her own shit out with your mum, she is triangulating using you.
One thing that really stands out to me is how much you justify yourself. I am a very abrupt, direct person (rude) but disappeared up my own arse trying to justify myself with family???
Why do we do it?
Right up to NC I would justify my LC to sister, brother, father when they KNEW how awful my mum was. Tbh going NC with siblings was a blessing and a bonus of NC, we had never been close.
If there is a next time drink from the bottle!
I bet she ignores your brothers drinking.

I'm sorry.

Big hugs

Thank you both so much I just have not got the mental capacity to think past my own nose right now. I have always been the fallguy I guess which is why I do explain myself so much but I guess people are deaf towards people they do not want to hear. Its not nice but I am I guess still grieving as all of us are for the parents we should have had instead of the cards and jokers we were given. Im just sad today. Tomorrow I will be stronger but what I have learned about myself is that i need to allow myself to be sad and not pretend which I did for years.

Love to all. I am sorry I cannot be of support right now but once I am stronger I will be more like attilla x

@user8800 listen to your body and rest up today. Hope you're doing ok.
@Genuineweddingone your family are completely awful. They're looking for any excuse to prove your mum is right. I'd not be accepting any more out of the blue calls from any of them. They can't be trusted.

Sorry can’t read everything fully as I’ve missed tons of peoples posts.

@MonkeyfromManchester sorry to hear how things are turning out, your poor husband. As for the GB I guess he’s the amazing child who can do no wrong and is perfect (to the rest of the world he will be the loser who treats everyone like crap). I guess he’s turned up at the last minute to save face. Anyway sorry for your husband it’s very complicated and very hard emotionally but he has you and a nice normal life with you away from this stuff usually so hopefully he can start focusing on that. The hospice is the best place, everyone knows she will 100% be looked after amazingly and your husband won’t need to worry or think he’s letting her down as he’s bound to be feeling. Toxic families are so complex that you are always made to feel like you have let your parents down even when they were the ones letting you down as children 💐

As for everyone else sounds like everyone is having a bad time, I will read properly in a few days. Nightmare few days here with my MH and anxiety, have had to have a few days on the sofa trying to feel better with snacks and the telly. Started feeling really low (like I did when I had a breakdown approx 6 years ago) and then started panicking it was all going to happen again and I’d end up feeling suicidal again.

My partner and I are getting on a bit better thankfully so that’s something and we’ve had some good news about something so we no longer need to worry about that after a year of panic and worry but the lack of any other family or friends to speak to is really making me feel so low I just don’t know what to do. I just get weird random contact ie strange text/DM from someone out of the blue that’s completely meaningless and then nothing again. I’m always just an afterthought.

When things go wrong in conversation, I've been thinking that's due to some unknown differences in the way I think versus the way the parent thinks, because we're all different with different opinions etc.

Now due to some comments on here I'm wondering if there is no miscommunication or misunderstanding etc and the contact is purely a way to deliberately upset me? So acting nice to gain contact but it's only ever an act, with no friendly intention behind it?

I take people at face value and don't look for ulterior motives so it feels very odd to me that this could be going on and I'm basically being played.

I'm struggling to see the point of it too. Maybe an attention seeking thing? Gaining sympathy from others when, after provoking me, they claim I've been mean to them? I don't know if that last part happens but I expect so, because they'll claim to my face that I've been mean to them. After things go wrong the parent genuinely seems to believe they're the victim in it all. When all I've tried to do is have an ordinary conversation, albeit one with boundaries, I'm not very open because if I know someone disagrees with me on a subject I think it's better not to speak of that subject to avoid conflict. When someone seems to take issue with every aspect of my life that doesn't leave much to talk about! But we can still talk about their life (I don't pass judgement) or general things, places we've been etc and keep it light.

I don't understand why they have to try to get personal information and then start an argument about it. I'm quite easy to get along with, people usually like me, so why not have nice conversations and be friends instead? (Sorry I'm not very chatty on this thread, trying to understand everything is giving me a headache TBH.)

User re your FIL, WTF?! That's appalling. He's essentially killed the person, in a roundabout way. 💐