January 2024 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie
Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826?amp%3Bascsubtag=mnforum-

Monkey thinking and praying for a peaceful end.

it gives me the rage how these golden sibling think that ‘give me a ring’ is being in any way supportive. It’s just another thing to force the other sibling to do. If he wants info he needs to ring.

praying for you both and that it’s quick peaceful and painless after everything you have had.

loves of love ❤️

18 months ago, I messaged my brother to tell him I thought mum was dying (she had sepsis), and I'd been in a&e for 15+ hours by this point

He went out to a party and got hammered 🤷‍♀️

My other siblings were by turn "ill" and "busy"

She was in hospital for a week and sent home with a binbag full of antibiotics

He went to visit her once (after I'd made clear I wasn't going that day) Refused to get a bus (the horror at my suggestion!!) or taxi (would cost too much). Waited until some mug could drop him in.

But...that's how he was raised. By her. He is a manchild.

I dont blame nurses/Drs getting fed up with alcoholics, its not really what they went to university for.

Actually it is part of what they train for, @binkie163.

yep alcoholics/addicts only care about themselves and indulging their addictions, they have no care for anyone else, while constantly complaining they are victims!

Of course, say whatever you like about the alcoholics in your own life, but when you generalise like this - repeatedly - it's really hard to read (and I'm trying to keep reading along). I've seen alcoholism and other addictions up close and it can be a living hell. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Some alcoholics try fucking hard. Some are selfish, self-indulgent pricks. My dad was a mix of both. But I wouldn't ever want to be in that state of desperation.

Many people struggling with the fallout from childhoods like the ones we are discussing here end up self-medicating with alcohol in the absence of any real help.

There but for the grace of god (or whatever) go any of us.

@PurBal incredible!

@IAAP Thank uou. I think this is going to be long and drawn out as she’s sat up in bed having a cup of tea. It’s definitely the end though as her organs are failing her, hard to breathe, sleeping most of the time, confused and she’s got that glassy look. I’m at home as I’m knackered. About to have an incredibly healthy dinner of potato waffles.

@FreeRider thank you.

@user8800 OMG. That’s exactly it. Hag raised a self-centred twat. He’s still on his pedestal and she’s happy enough to abuse the sons who drop everything for her. And you get all the abuse!!! FFS.

Hag had the last rites from the priest and I think this has revived her. It’s totally batshit.

@PeoniesLilac I am talking about my own experience with alcoholics/addicts. I grew up in an alcoholic home. I have seen parents and extended family blighted by alcoholism, friends, colleagues and a few neighbors ruin their lives and everyone around them. I dont drink as I didn't want to be like my parents.
My husband's best friend was eventually refused A&E treatment, he took a swan dive off the back of a cruise ship 2 years ago after another massive binge, imagine how his family felt when told next morning and that someone had filmed it.
So I feel for the people who are affected by it, especially children as I was one. I save my sympathy for them.
I saw both my parents after 30 years of daily drinking alcoholism both stop drinking cold turkey, so it can be done if the person chooses to. I have no problem with anyone who enjoys a drink, many of my friends do but I choose not to be around toxic people, it drains my energy.

I hope for Mr M's sake that this really is the end and that it won't be painful to watch

I remember when my maternal grandmother - who wasn't on The Hag's level but not far behind - died I was sad...but not for her death. I was sad at the whole missed opportunity for everyone that had known her - particularly her 9 children and 12 grandchildren.

Everyone wants the stereotypical relationship with their grandparents (and other relations), the one you see in television ads, particularly at Christmas. I know that's fantasy and for a lot of people it just isn't true...but for those of us with narcissistic relations who are so far from the usual they might as well be in another universe, it's very hard. My grandmother was a narcissist because she was incredibly spoilt - first by her parents, then her husband and ultimately by 3 of her children. The concept that her and her needs may not always come first to everyone never occurred to her, and when anyone tried to set boundaries with her, it really didn't go down well. She had too many 'flying monkeys' to support her in her narcissism as well. She was extremely wealthy and never had a paid job in her life...once her children were grown up she was bored and instead of channelling that in healthy ways, she spent the rest of her life pitting her children against each other. I swear you needed diagrams to keep track of who was/wasn't talking to each other in that family!

I just hope for @MonkeyfromManchester 's sake that MM doesn't feel too much guilt once she has gone. In my own personal experience, narcissists have a great talent for making others feel guilty, particularly when others make it clear they won't tolerate or be around their bad behaviour.

Thinking of you @MonkeyfromManchester and hoping that the Hag slips away quickly and peacefully for MM and SS sakes. Golden boy suddenly popping up doesn't surprise me. It's all about the optics so he can say that he took an interest.
@PurBal your mother is something else. Stand strong and don't let her walk all over you with this decorating lark. It's your home!
And @CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau I'm glad to hear from you, that you are out of hospital and hope you recover as well as you can do.
Keeping everyone here in thoughts and surrounded by kindred spirits.

@MonkeyfromManchester sending my thoughts, I too hope it's not too dragged out for all of you.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau I hope you are OK are your awful fall. Hopefully you can have some much needed time to recover.

Just caught up with the thread. This week has been up there as being quite an awful one. I haven't spoken to my mum for a week now. Last time I didn't speak to her and I had enough of her rubbish was when DS was little. My dad turned up at my door and said we'll you know what your mum's like make up with her. Come to realise he's her enabler. I did eventually talk to her again but I remember her smirking at me because she didn't say sorry.

I think I read up thread about toxic parent being bored once we are older and pitting siblings against each other. I absolutely relate to this. I also get a sense that when me and my sister meet up and get on well she has this jealousy. It's all very odd. Kind of like her plan isn't working to make us hate each other.

Also on the subject of alcoholism. My father isn't a alcoholic as such but he definitely is a problem drinker. When he goes out (which is often) he doesn't know when to stop. First one there, last one to leave. Was the same at their friends parties when I was little too. My dad is the most arrogant awful person when drunk. He is also volatile and can get aggressive. My mum has been awful to him over the years but then he has also been awful to her. I remember he would often put her down and get me and my sister to laugh along and she would cry
Looking back it was all just such a toxic family. However no one suspected we were this way. I had it drilled into me that family business is ours only. If I told anyone anything I'd get taken away.

I guess I just feel disappointed and sadness atm for the parents I wish I had throughout my life. Having a DS puts into perspective how awful they were.

Joining as I feel like my past is catching up with me. I had a violent alcoholic father who has since passed away.
My mum could also be violent but also specialised is screaming and shouting for hours on end, smashing things to intimidate us and insulting me and my siblings. Typical examples 'you're killing me', 'you're a vicious, lying bitch', 'I'll put you care if you misbehave and you know what they do to kids in care'.
I confronted her just before Christmas and she denied everything. She said all I remember is trying to stop your father hitting you. I listed off specific examples and she denied them.
She has no family or friends close by and is getting older so I feel really torn - I want to make sure she's OK as she's living alone with health conditions but also want to protect myself, children and mental health.
My siblings have on/ off relationships with her too. She is also not maternal/ caring in any way. She's very cold, only talks about herself and she always has it 'worst' and, of course, she's always right.
I've always been quiet but now I'm getting extremely anxious every time I think I might be 'in trouble' after being hit and screamed at for doing anything wrong as a child.
Has anyone had therapy that has worked or maintained any sort of relationship with their parents like this?

I am currently in therapy. Last year my mum put her husband in care and I felt like I had to suck it up and be there for her. I was inviting her for dinners, making extras to send home with her so she was eating well, we have a christmas night with a toy show here every year and for the first time i not only invited her to spend it with us but bought us all matching pjs and did up a gift bag for her with wine and sweets and things. Then i brought her on a ferry day trip to buy duty free gifts for xmas etc. I paid for all of this. How did she repay me? SHe rang my childs school and said I was neglecting him. My therapist this whole time was asking me why I felt bad for her and I was like well she has nobody else and she gave birth to me till one day she said 'but you did not ask to be born'. You may only have one mother but she decided to have kids and should treat them all equally. Shes right. I was not raised with boundaries, always told to do what mummy dear says but no more.

I

@Spencer0220

Thank you.

After the constant self-developed drama in her life it needs to be a quiet end.

It looks like with the arrival of Golden Boy / Prodigal Son that there will be a fantastic curtain call. Ordering interval drinks.

@FreeRider

Your GM sounds terrible. It really is boredom, isn’t it? They’ve got the time to be unpleasant or can they not bear to have any drama in their lives? I keep reminding MM just how much he has done for the Hag. Hanging in the air is ‘despite’…

@parentalalienation you are so right, it’s the optics all the way with The Golden Boy Brother.

He’s travelling down today. Mr Monkey has just texted me from the hospital with the news. I imagine GB will gallop in to save the day. He’s not been seen for dust for SEVEN years. No contact at all. I imagine he will be at the bedside playing ‘devoted son’, talking about his daughter and showing photos. Obviously, he can’t talk about his elder sons (the nephews) as he’s abandoned them. I do think that MM will be apologetic if this happy family here’s your granddaughter shit happens. I might just pick up a hospital bedside chair and smash it into GB’s skull. Never liked him. Carbon copy of the Hag. Bullied MM all through his childhood.

what is darkly hilarious about all of this is that we recently learned that GB has told friends and colleagues in Scotland that the hag died seven years ago. I have a strong suspicion that he’s told his new wifey this. You could not make MM’s family up.

I’m very tempted to find a way to drop him in it, but will save my energy.

@Bringonthesun24 I’m so sorry it’s a horrible week for you. The jealousy thing I recognise. Hag went nuts a couple of years ago when MM and Slave Son were going out for a curry. Livid that she wasn’t invited. As she didn’t like curry she demanded another type of cuisine even though she was STILL not invited.

I think with that weird brand of narcissism, jealousy is a fear of the tables being turned, people being able to join the dots and their not being the centre of attention. Divide and rule doesn’t always work. They hate that.

@scoopdewhoop

Love to you. That emotional abuse and fear stays with you all your life.

I cannot recommend therapy more. It’s a safe and judgement free space and equips you with tools. It gave Mr Monkey the space to acknowledge the abuse, the power to say no, more self-confidence and offered him choices whether to go low or no contact. Before this Dec/Jan crisis, he was considering the very barest of contact, even breaking off contact altogether. Therapy has been extraordinary for him.

@Genuineweddingone
Nothing was ever good enough for your selfish, SELFISH mother. OMG I’m so angry for you.

As always, it blows me away the immense love for children and complete focus on being a good parent on this board. Lots of the abusers use the excuse of their terrible childhoods, but here we are all forging a better way. Crap engendering crap is not a foregone conclusion.

Love to all xxx

@scoopdewhoop it's the FOG that keeps us there. I think there's a website on FOG from Reading here previously.

@Genuineweddingone that's absolutely awful. Do you know why she contacted SS. Does she have narc tendencies? Shocked as to why a parent would do this when you offer them so much care.

As predicted my enabler father has text me. Same as always. I finally stop talking to mum and dad swans in. He's said let's move on hopefully. We'll that's why them want because it makes their lives easier and then they don't have to look bad. He also mentioned about me seeing my sister today. So sister has told mum we are meeting. It's like Chinese whispers why do they all have to share each others business. I bet sister will be a flying monkey today and convince me to speak to mum. Even though she herself told her some home truths last year and they didn't speak for 3 months.

I think her issue is that she is jealous of anyone she thinks has it better than her. Back in 2019 when she rang ss I had just gotten my ex off my mortgage and deeds of the house so solely in my name. I was having a great time of it till I got that call off ss. I didnt know it was her till this year when she rang my sons school they had no choice but to log the call with ss and i rang ss myself and talked to them and thats when i found out she was the one in 2019 too. She is a full on narc. Has every single trait.

“Moving on” what does that even mean? @Bringonthesun24

I hope meeting up with your sister is OK. Stay strong. Xxx

Golden Boy has mentioned a visitation from ‘we’ in his text to Mr Monkey this morning. ‘We were in Glasgow and we set off driving down at 5am’.

This could be the visitation from him and the new, albeit overlapping with his first marriage, family of replacement trophy wife and little girl. Hag will lap this up.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I think you’re right and there’s some mercenary shit at play. Apparently, GB no longer works as there were some ‘financial irregularities’ where he last worked…

MM has informed him that there is no room at the inn.

“Oh, it’s OK,we’ll sort something out when we get there.”

Football’s on so you’re looking at £160 a night upwards.

Be very interesting to see what car he’s driving (usually a jaguar) and where he ends up staying. If he’s fallen on hard times (and he does have a coke habit), I imagine the ring round the wider family for a bed will be on the cards. Pretty awkward at Hag’s 80th party when his absence was the elephant in the room. Everyone knows he did a runner without it ever being said.

I'm thinking of you and MrM @mm xx

My mother also has done/does the playing siblings off against each other.

God knows the bullshit she's fed them with over the years.

I did call her out some years ago on a HUGE lie she told my sister about me. Involved her lending me money (ha!!)

Now... my sibling knew it was a lie on some level as my parents were poor, yet she felt she could use it against me... until I provided actual proof.

No apology.

I'm classed as "difficult" because I refuse to just brush things under the carpet 🤷‍♀️

It baffles me so much. I have children of my own, and they are SO close it's wonderful to see 💙

I've never played favourites. They are valued for who they are and loved unconditionally.

It is possible to stop the generational rot... don't leave it as long as I did.

I stuck to one child as I was so afraid I would turn into my mother and pit my kids against each other. I realise now (too late) that I dont have it in me but it was always something I thought about.

@Bringonthesun24 your post resonates. We were told that 'we don't wash our laundry in public' and used to get into trouble for telling our grandparents things.
I hope you're having a better day today.

Brand new to this thread.

I’ve just finished ‘Toxic Parents’.

I only got it last night and I’ve finished it already. What an eye opener it was. My parents truly are toxic. Whether they know they are toxic or not is a different matter.

I’m not sure how to search each thread for this but where do I go from here? For those that read the book, did you confront your parents?

@scoopdewhoop I managed to be low contact with my parents for about 6 years while having therapy. I felt that I owed my parents for having brought me up etc and that in the grand scheme of things my childhood hadn't been that bad. Classic FOG stuff really!
After my gran died, I went completely non contact and it's been a long gradual process of healing. It's now 3 years since and I've realised how toxic their presence was, even when it was the other end of the phone. Now that I've not got the exposure to their toxicity, I'm feeling better in all areas of my life and my depression has finally lifted.

💙

Oh the smirk, @Bringonthesun24. That was a real tell for me. I'd be in such distress at mum's behaviour, and there'd be that smirk on her face. So mind-blowingly out of place. I also feel sadness and disappointment for all of us in my family. It didn't have to be this bad.

I'm classed as "difficult" because I refuse to just brush things under the carpet

Snap, @user8800. My sister could brush the Taj Mahal under a carpet. I can't bear it. It's so unhealthy, not sure if I've gone too far the other way though?

Welcome to the club that nobody wants to be in! In my situation my father was alcoholic but stopped drinking when I was a teenager. My "mother" always painted him as the bad guy, she was such a victim, she'd had a terrible time with him etc. It was only after he died that I realised she was the really difficult one (he was very selfish but not a narcissist) and I started to read more about narcissism, not realising there was such a thing as a covert narc.

Toxic Parents was one of many books I've read and I remember reading the section on Confrontation, and thinking it wouldn't do any good in my situation. Susan Forward is very forceful about this and says it has worked really well. She also points out Confrontation isn't about punishing the abusers, it's about getting over the fear of facing up to them, telling the truth and figuring out what sort of a relationship there can be with them in the future. She also acknowledges that there is very little likelihood of the parent admitting their behaviour and they are more likely to get very angry and victim-blame.

I had tried (before reading this book) gently telling my "mother" about how her behaviour affected me. Her response was that she felt exactly the same. She even said that she felt bullied - which was so far from the truth I was utterly astounded, she bullied me all my life, screaming abuse, silent treatment etc. So that didn't do any good, she was the classic covert narc "victim".

Years later, since reading several books, my "mother" told me if I had been a proper mother she would have a better relationship with my children (that she never babysat or helped me with, just criticised me and them.) I was brought up to have such low self esteem that I believed I was hopeless and that no matter how hard I tried I wouldn't get things right. But saying this to me, with the knowledge I had gained from all the reading, made something shift within me and I was no longer prepared to tolerate her abuse.

So I refused to deal with her in person and would only correspond in writing. In my 4th and last letter I again explained how I felt, I also said that I understood she had been affected by things in her childhood, and recommended (again) that she see a counsellor. I really was kind in the way I expressed things, far kinder than she actually deserved.

Well that set her off big time. The letter she wrote in response started with "Please once & for all stop lying to yourself, me & everyone else." and finished "leave me alone, I've had it." Fine, I'm happy to never see her again. But I never lied, and I didn't even get the opportunity to defend myself as all but one of her side of the family cut me off without even trying to find out what happened. She has been playing the victim, she misses me so much etc., but didn't tell them what she wrote to me. That was hard to come to terms with, but I know there has been huge dysfunction in her side of the family, back to her mother, so it's not going to change, and my life is so much more peaceful without all the toxic drama.

So I'd say if you decide to write a letter, be aware that no matter how honest/kind/caring it is, it could cost you a lot. I would suggest you keep reading books and posting here to get a clearer understanding of the blight that is narcissism.