How can I do it at 63? Or do I keep on keeping on?

[Silencedandignored]

Married 30 odd years, adult kids. Discovered H use of prostitutes some 15 years ago and thought it was a one off. Loads of teenager probs and utter fear of leaving/him leaving at that time, so tried to make the best of it.

15 years on...it is clear to me H is a damaged and controlling man. More prostitutes and one 'special' one. All discovered by 'accident'

Tried to make it work, or rather I did...trying to match 'her' trying to 'win' H 'back'

Now, he's possibly not using prostitutes though I think has replaced with porn..

He silences me...walks away...says he 'cant be bothered anymore and has stopped trying'

Seems exceptionally unaffected by the pain he is very aware he is causing and I am now having to face the fact that the show is over.

I am quite alone with this. I have no support. I am not good at telling anyone about this as all of my friends heard it all before and all of them advised me to 'get out'

Of course I didn't. I thought I could make things better.

H is clearly only interested in staying together as it is easier and I absolutely know his behaviour is abusive in the extreme. He lies and evades and he knows that I think this so he feels he has nothing to lose. He knows there are no witnesses. He knows I stuck with him before and I will do again because he is absolutely aware of my vulnerability and desperation.

I am a professional woman, I am capable and still attractive but I am utterly broken privately.

So, I am here telling my story because it helps to write it. But I cannot see any kind of future for me with him, or alone. I feel completely stuck. Like a fish on a hook.

Big row 2 days ago, so its silence all round. I just cannot summon up the courage to tell him, its over - over and done with. Finished.

Ive been here before, I have felt this before but always lacked the courage. I literally go weak at the knees and stutter if I try to speak to him.

He is vicious and spiteful, he 'threatens' me with silence and actually tells me, 'I am not prepared to speak to you for three and a half hours' and so he doesnt. He also 'blocks' me on Whatsapp and every other mode of contact for anything up to a week at at a time, if I have displeased him. If I do show emotion and get upset, his usual response is 'grow up' or 'fgs, we have been married for 30 years its time to stop acting like a stupid little girl' The ironic thing is he tells me to grow up but always follows it with 'you are too old - a woman of 60+ acting like a stupid little girl' He knows I have no response and he knows it paralyses me. He is correct, it does.

I am temporarily living abroad with him at the moment but due to return in 3 months and I just cant cope with the silence and the goading...He knows the prostitutes 'broke' me last time so he will do stuff like get showered and changed and go out - for hours - even if it is actually only for a walk, he will try to make me 'suspect' he's heading off to a paid for session, almost just to enjoy the 'show' of seeing me shrink even more.

In between these periods, which can happen as often as every 2 months or as little as once a year, we are OK. We do have shared history, we do have some sense of humour and familiarity, but, I never know when the next session of psychological torture is coming next.

He has told me already some years ago that if I did try to divorce him then he would 'play dirty' He is sly, and manipulative, and cruel. Yet somehow, I am still here and the pain never actually goes.

How do I get the courage? Ive sort of given up but am always happy to read any advice as it gives me a strange hope. Thank you

You know this is the end of the road. You simply can’t take any more from this poor excuse for a human being. Play the slow game, quietly. Get all your ducks in a row without him knowing what you are doing.

You’ve got this, you can do it. Your future looks bright. You have a lot to look forward to. Use Mumsnet for practical and emotional support. Mumsnetters are great with things like this. We have your back. You aren’t alone. ❤️

If he ever becomes nice permanently which I doubt, don't see it as a sign you can stay together, think of it as: we have children and shared social circle, it's nice dear that you can finally be civilized it will make meeting up again a little bit easier"
just remind yourself of how when he was sure of you staying and took your commitment to the relationship for granted he treated you so badly.
He is only being soft know because he wants to reel you back in and make you forget any ideas of leaving.
This game of being nicer when you pull back, being mean when you need warmth and reassurance messes with your sense of reality, it makes you doubt your perception.

I said.earlier why does it matter to prove abuse, I hadn't thought that there could be moral or religious reasons, maybe even a legal system that requires this for separation or divorce. But also maybe you needed validation from your undoubtedly enmeshed social circle, to see that he isn't mr nice guy and that you had been trapped and abused under their nose all along. I suppose it's because his hot and cold, mr nasty then mr nice act that makes a person doubt their view of the situation. It's crazy making, minimising, sweep under the carpet manipulation.

You are seeing the patterns of his behaviour like clockwork. You have been very generous and forgiving, the end of the marriage is on him.

The secret to leaving is understanding why you stay. I suspect the reasons you stay predate your relationship. You need professional support to help you unpick everything.

By focussing on him you excuse yourself from taking responsibility for your own happiness.

My heart goes out to you.

you deserve better.
he will live a miserable lonely life. Don’t waste the rest of your life with such a disrespectful man

I guarantee you will find a happier place without him. It is abusive what he’s doing to you, don’t let him silence you.

i know leaving can be hard, but it will be worth it eventually.

gather as much evidence you can of the things he’s doing. Esp if he tries to “play dirty”.

get some legal advice before doing anything and confide in a friend.

sending you strength xx

Yeah he's very crafty and manipulative.
I think he senses you subconsciously distancing

@Silencedandignored have a read of “why does he do that?” By Lundy Bancroft. Have a Google, there’s normally a pdf floating around on the internet to read for free. It’s eye opening.

I was in a similar “is it bad enough to leave?” situation. Things came to a head, I’m 18m from the decision to separate, and I’ve been living alone for 13months and it’s wonderful. My life is so peaceful and calm (some might say dull!) and I’m not walking on eggshells constantly trying to appease someone who finds fault with everything I say and everything I do.

It’s glorious on the other side.

Make the most of your precious life, you only get one, so don’t waste it on this arsehole.

I think he knows he's on shaky ground so he's making you doubt everything and create this churn. It's smoke and mirrors to distract you from knowing what to do.

I know it's hard but I would go cold with him. You've got 3 months to plan and squirrel as much money away as you can. Sell any assets you have. Take what you can from joint accounts. Then when you are in your home country you can move out.

As a user said upthread try to ignore the noise.

I am sorry that you’re going through this. I can only speak from my parents perspective, my dad had multiple affairs, ons throughout the marriage. Mum knew, he would ‘make amends’ but then do it again. She kicked him out for 6 months, when I was 19 and she would have been early 50s. He wheedled his way back in. Her worry was being in her own, the shame, lack of support or money.
She died at 68, (12 years ago) within the space of a few months he took two women (at the same time). He has since made one of them his partner, he’s 80 this year. He’s still abusive and unpleasant, just older. He has told his partner that she will be caring for him when he’s older.
i am angry at my mum for not divorcing him, in doing so, he made her death all about him, he kept her ashes for 11 years, refusing to allow them to be buried, he then chose a place she never went to and demands that we place him with her when ge dies. He wants to have this hold over her in death as well as life.
please go, get out now. Don’t waste anymore of your precious time with someone so hateful. It is better to be on your own than live like this. There is also the possibility that you become his carer, being trapped even more.

@Silencedandignored

Close your eyes for a moment (don't do this if you're driving!) and imagine a future where you simply don't care about this man. He can't hurt you with his words, his actions, his threats, his silences. He has no power over you anymore. You don't love him, you don't hate him - he's just nothing to you. The only possible emotion you have when you think about him (which you find yourself doing less and less) is pity because he's a sad, confused, bitter and lonely man who is ageing badly.

How would you feel about that?

A leopard never changes its spots. He's been like this for so long, it's who he is. It sounds as though even when he's "softening you up" he's still being controlling. He's like a cat with a mouse, letting you think things will be ok, then lunging back in and being nasty again. You sound like such a lovely lady, 63 is still young enough to enjoy some peace on your own, away from this game player. Listen to the good advice and support for you on here. I can't add anything, just know we are all here for you. And keep in mind, you have the bargaining chip of spilling his secret and how long it's been going on for, to people in his life who he would probably not actually appreciate knowing his sordid secret! Much love and positive vibes heading your way ❤

FWIW, he is in the 'soften her up' stage and has just told me that I 'need to keep things in perspective and not be so emotional' (after the row)

That's his 'soften her up' phase? ie telling you that it was all your fault / in your head?

Look at your reasons for staying:

• Frightened of being single. Why? Single is 10000 times better than being with an abusive man who tries to break you and takes joy from it. Single brings you a calm home, time and space to rebuild yourself and remember who you are; time to refocus your life; and - should you choose it later on - to find a decent man and have a healthy relationship.
• I've wasted so much of my life on him, it would be admitting defeat to leave. - Surely you see that every day you stay with him, you're wasting more of your life? You could leave him and have another 30 years of a calm, happy, peaceful, fun life. Much better to admit he's abusive now and make your life better, than to accept this is it til you die.
• Where would you sit financially? Looks like you'll be absolutely fine. But go see a solicitor and get some advice. You'll know better where you stand, and you might be pleasantly surprised. In any case you can start planning for the best outcome financially for yourself.
• He'll make your life hell if you leave him. He's making your life hell by staying. He'll have MUCH less ability to affect your life once you've left him. And anyway, he doesn't have the power he thinks he has. Once you petition for divorce, he will have to comply with that process. If he tries to bad mouth you to people - the ones who matter won't believe him. The ones who believe him don't matter.

PLEASE keep sharing and reading here. Take some advice from a solicitor. Get that therapy you're considering. Start making plans (quietly, don't tell him) today. You will grow in strength with every small step, every decision made, every time you visualise your lovely future, every friend you confide in, every day you're nearer to divorcing him.

@Farmageddon i think it can be valuable sometimes to look at your upbringing and history to see patterns in your choices.

But I also think we can sometimes put too much weight on it.

I’m speaking as a survivor of DA- not a therapist, so this is just my perspective….but I think that many victims of domestic abuse respond in the way they do because it is the typical human response to abuse from a loved one.

it’s easy for people who’ve never experienced abuse to think they’d never behave in that way, but that comes from not understanding the dynamic.

while my circumstances perhaps made me blind to some of the early red flags, I’m a confident, generally level headed person with a healthy level of self esteem.

I left as soon as I realised the relationship was abusive, but it took a while to realise.

I think sometimes people stay because they’ve only known straightforward people so assume that everyone is acting in good faith. They assume they MUST be part of the problem.

I say this because I think so much time is spent on working out why the victim got themselves into that situation rather than acknowledging that there’s a lot of broken men out there who are abusive towards women.

What is happening to OP could happen to anyone.

@Silencedandignored

FWIW, he is in the 'soften her up' stage and has just told me that I 'need to keep things in perspective and not be so emotional' (after the row)

How on Earth is that a 'softening up stage'? He's telling you that 1-you have no 'perspective' and 2- you're 'overly emotional'. I don't consider that 'softening up'. I consider that damned insulting!!!

This is such a good post.

The other posters have given you excellent advice. I am so sorry that you are in this situation. But yes, you can and should leave. As soon as possible.

Although you may not believe you will be happier if you leave right now - with his cruel behaviour, he has no doubt chipped away at your self-esteem - I am sure you will be much happier without him. You do not deserve to be treated like this.

My ex was very subtle in his abusive behaviour too - he made me feel I was incapable of anything, even the simplest things like driving. In actual fact, I was the breadwinner and he lived off my money for years. To an outsider, it was crazy, but I was trapped and manipulated. The day I separated from him, I started driving again and felt free - like I was born again. I gradually regained all the self-confidence I had lost in the years I spent with him. It wasn't easy, but it was 100% worth it. I was in my 50s when we separated and I too was very scared of being on my own. But I got my life back and am stronger than ever now.

You can do this - please try to get as much help as you need - from a therapist, a lawyer and your friends back home. You will be happier. Please take the first steps now.

We have one life. Do not waste any more of yours with this cruel man. Give yourself the chance to be happy, to be free.

Therapy is not about facing up to what a waste and disappointment your life has been. Therapy is so much more than that. It’s about first of all being heard, then it’s having someone on your team cheerleading and supporting. It’s about reframing and understanding and aha moments. Picking up old forgot threads that give you inspiration and joy.
I am 66 and live on my own, children living their own lives. I have started therapy again just because I felt in a rut and inclined to misery. I have resurrected a long held dream, and started dreaming and planning again. I’ve borrowed some money on low interest that I can afford on my modest pension and bought a camper van. In three weeks I will be off to Southern Europe to paint and write and gaze at pine trees and the Mediterranean Sea. I will sit in cafes and listen to Italians chatting and go to beautiful markets and buy beautiful food to cook in my camper van.
Use your three months to start some therapy just for you, so you will return to the UK with a strong plan in place and a stronger heart. You have an end date already, you can be strong again, go for it. Xx.

Sorry you are going through this. But it's not too late, please listen to the advise given x

I was in a similar ish position this time last year. I managed to LTB in the summer. The only reason I managed it is because I got help from My GP and Women's Aid. It is hard to face all this alone. Good luck!

Imagine for a moment that your husband is just someone who is mildly annoying. The type who leaves wet towels on the floor. Sniffs too much. Clears his throat in an annoying way. His laugh is too loud etc. and perhaps a bit thick too. These would STILL be enough reasons to give you the right to live your life as you choose. You don’t need to justify to anyone why.

So then, the life as you choose it. What might that look like? If you are obligated (I wonder what that means? Emotionally committed and rewarded?) then why not stay longer? What if you got your own place?

Humour me and imagine how life would be if you had your own place with all the bits you love in it. A calm peaceful space to be, and cook and rest and live. A place where you are not emotionally tormented. Clean relaxing, autonomy. No alarms and no surprises, as the song goes.

Wouldn’t that be better than this? It is yours for the taking.

OP I am only a few years younger than you and after years of dithering I divorced my emotionally abusive dismissive husband. The waves of relief that washed over me were immense.

I stopped dreaming of drowning, and tidal waves coming towards me which threatened to wash me away. Or being lost out at sea and my ship can’t dock. Or being on the wrong train/plane and I can’t get home. Over and over the repeated nightmares just stopped, overnight.

Physically the sensations were like that delicious melting feeling you get when you’re really cold, and can stand on heated floors in bare feet, or feel hot air being blown over you so every muscle relaxes and you can breathe out really deeply.

Please don’t underestimate how much your whole physiology will thank you.

I sleep deeper, my dreams are happier. Sometimes I’m still on a boat or train but I’m on the right one and I’m safe. All is well.

He left, with the help of blue lights as it happens, in 2020. A year later, still sighing with relief I met someone else whom I assumed would be a bit of a diversion, an effervescent distraction whilst I worked out what was what. He has actually revealed himself to be wonderful and rock solid and kind and gentle and funny. I wasn’t even looking.

Have hope OP. It can still all turn out ok.

Firstly your friends, if they’re worth their salt, will not judge you for staying, or shun you. If anything they will feel immense relief that someone they love is finally removing themselves from a life that keeps hurting them. I mean, think about how you would react to a dear friend finally escaping abuse? You’d be so glad right? They will become your biggest cheerleaders (and if you want to stay on your thread, the lovely MNers have shown so much support, encouragement and advice to so many women making this scary but empowering transition too! Many here have walked these footsteps before so they can advise on what to do, what to expect, navigating the maelstrom of feelings that will come, etc)

Have you heard of the cycle of abuse? You seem aware that his behaviour is a cruel merry-go-round, but it is actually documented as ‘a thing’ that is hugely prevalent in people with narcissistic traits, which this man clearly has. This website explains it pretty well
https://pathwaysfamilycoaching.com/4-phases-of-a-narcissistic-relationship/

sounds like he’s gearing up for the ‘hoovering’ stage, which is probably the most tenable time of the cycle, but as you well know, for you it isn’t ever a truly happy time as you are living in that fear of when the next axe will fall. I know this is the time when you feel a bit of relief (that he’s not being outright cruel) and you start thinking of the ‘good times’ and wishing it could be like this all the time, but you’ll have to practice a bit of radical acceptance here that it will never be consistently a good, respectful, loving relationship. You know if you stay in this, you will never have a peaceful life. You don’t want to still be living like this in ten, twenty years time, so the only way is out! You can do this! Love yourself and leave him. Everything else will fall into place, don’t let the fear of What Ifs paralyse you, that’s his doing by design because he doesn’t want to lose his comfortable cooking, cleaning, companion back up. You are nobody’s dead cert doormat!
You say that you don’t think you have the courage to do it all, but the funny thing is, from being on MN for 15 years and reading the journeys of many amazing women who have left horrible marriages, every single one of them commented at some point (after being told how brave, strong they were)
“thank you, I don’t feel brave at all”.
I think that while in the eye of the storm, we don’t realise how damn courageous we are being! That feeling only truly comes when we have battled through the hard parts, and can breathe enough to look back and reflect on ourselves. This can be you! Waiting around for the time you think you are brave enough, will lead to remaining in this relationshit and dragging on the unease, disrespect and pain for you.
Give yourself this time you’re abroad to ‘get your ducks in a row’, the famed MN mantra, there are some amazing posts (not sure if there’s a master thread somewhere on here that compiles everything, if not there should be!)
Accept there are things that you might not get, for example his inheritance, or his life insurance. Some things you will have to write off, but those things are not a good enough reason to live anymore time in misery, worry and apprehension. A peaceful life where you don’t have that creeping anxiety of what horrible treatment from him might come next, is worth SO MUCH MORE than every pound in England I promise!

Love, you earn 40k a year: Even if you don't get a penny from joint assets you could live comfortably practically anywhere in that as a single women. Except maybe certain cities london. But it's still doable.

Be prepared to lose everything else, you don't need it (you won't lose it but if you did you'd be fine).

In truth I think some people get too used to the finer things in life. But it's only money and stuff! Freedom is worth ten times all that. A hundred times it even.

40k a year! Easy life ahead. Provided you stick with it and don't I've beyond your means. Get away from the crappy man and go be free.

I urge you to have counselling in order to rebuild your strength and self value needed to leave this horrifically abusive relationship. You owe it to yourself and your loved ones to live the rest of your life free and happy. Counselling can be immensely helpful in supporting yourself through this.

This man is tormenting you, mentally torturing you on purpose. Get yourself out of the situation. He obviously has serious mental health issues. You will blossom if you can get away from this disgusting person. :)

Another poster I think on this thread said that she put her fathers ashes in the landfill.

You don’t need to say anything about it, or discuss it with your father, but the phrase “Get in the bin” comes to mind.

He can insist all he likes now, but what’s he going to do when he’s dead?

Good luck OP. I felt sad reading your thread and can hear your loneliness. I hope you can find the courage.

I understand your worries. I am disabled, was only working in a part time job and also living overseas away from my family. I managed to break free. And despite my ex telling me I would be very poor that hasn’t been the case. I was able to buy my own home, support the kids and build up my pension. I have not for one minute regretted my decision and I was far lonelier married than I am now.
You deserve to be happy too.