2nd date too soon to sleep with him?

[Tiddlywink222]

I’m normally very sure of myself with this sort of stuff but been out of the dating game for a while!

Met a guy on OLD in December. Chatted a lot. Had a phone call before meeting for over an hour - all good. No red flags.

Met IRL just before Christmas. I live quite far away from him, he offered to pay for my train fare and hotel if it meant we could be more relaxed in the evening and not worry about missing my last train back. Sorted that, all fine, 5* hotel… made it clear there were no expectations and all under my name. We had drinks and then dinner at a very nice restaurant. Got on really well, really relaxed and fun. I haven’t dated anyone seriously for nearly two years as I was heartbroken after my last relationship and this is the first time I’ve actually felt a bit of a spark with someone else since.

He stayed with me in the end as it got late, but we didn’t have sex and he didn’t push it. Kissed a lot, stayed PG 😅 Had breakfast together, he made sure I got home safely. All fine.
I think it should have felt too much quite early on but it didn’t at all, weirdly. I offered for him to stay he wasn’t pushy about it.

He went on holiday straight after Christmas and has messaged me every day, not in a weird intense way just general chit chat, flirty but not overtly sexual. He’s made it clear he’s interested and wants to see me again.

This weekend we’re supposed to meet up for a second date. It’s clear we had a lot of chemistry previously and tbh I want to sleep with him but worried second date is too soon, despite talking for over a month now, and quite a lot of investment both sides given distance. I imagine he’d be happy getting me somewhere to stay again.

I wouldn’t sleep with him unless things were exclusive but I feel it’s too early to ‘insist’ on that without it coming across like I’m pushing for something really serious. I’m not, I just don’t sleep with people casually.

Thoughts? I’m worried I’m overthinking this. I don’t get the impression he’s out to use me, but I feel like I’m out of practice and don’t want to be naive.

This place is just weird

You want to have sex with him and he wants to have sex with you. Great. Do it. He is happy to spend some money having a nice time, you are happy to spend some money having a nice time. Great, do it. Instead of overthinking everything and letting random people make your decisions or give you permission just go and have a nice time and do whatever you feel like. Accept this treat, insist on that treat and enjoy.

Ok now you’re being deliberately obtuse. Which I can only assume means we have all hit a nerve.

Exactly!

I've not found that men are generally total crap when it comes to dating, this just has not been my experience, I'm now reasonably old and probably more seasoned than most, and not bitter. I have had a lot of sex with a lot of men, both in and out of relationships, short and long term. Some I have known for minutes, some for a decade.

I can absolutely confirm that it makes not a jot of difference to the longeivity of a relationship how many dates you "wait", and any man who would judge you for being a slut and not "marriage material" because you fucked them too soon when they also had their pants round their ankles is a double standards mysogynist that I wouldn't waste my time getting to know further let along try to drag down the aisle.

I'm interested in what you mean by the ‘women can have sex like men’ narrative, and it being all so free and easy. I have never had sex "like a man", what does that mean? I've had a lot of sex like a woman, just maybe not like you.

The ‘must wait to have sex so the man doesn’t disappear’ narrative is what I'm mostly questioning. How does it work? Surely it's just a throwback from when naice girls didn't and we all had to pretend to be modest virgins lest we not be chosen, and your reputation was your defence against being a spinster. I don't think it does work, and I think OP or anyone that holds it up as a shield against being "dumped" and sleeping with a man on the arbitrary third date is going to need another magic spell against spinsterhood.

It's based more on a women's fear of a bad repuation rather than a method that works to bag a good husband. Have sex like an adult woman with an adult man on your own terms because you want to and when you want to, without making them wait, holding out, testing their commitment because you're angling for a wedding. The two are not related. You're not cleverly snagging an excellent father to your unborn children by letting them pay for train tickets, dinner and five star hotels for you. There are plenty of men out there happy to throw big money at what would class as impressive and romantic dates, and they're also some of the biggest emotionally repressed duplicitous people out there. It's zero test of character, suitability as a partner, and it would only appeal or impress a woman that is interested in money, or the ability to be a kept in future. If that's what you're interested in.

Just fuck him if you want to fuck him. I don't understand why you're posting about it, tbh. What is making you uneasy about the situation? I can see loads that would make me feel uneasy, but when pp have suggested some potential red flags, you've been adamant that everything is perfect. So what's the problem?

There is no right or wrong here, it's just a matter for you to work out what you're comfortable with.

Have sex, don't have sex...what is it that worries you? If you have sex and then want him to leave, you can tell him to leave.

Forget the money he has spent, its irrelevant. All that matters is that you are a. into each other and b. respectful.

I believe you actually know what you want you're just doubting yourself.

Although your date wouldn’t be the way I’d do things OP I’m pretty shocked how personal some of these posts are.

We are all adults and we make our own choices. Some of these comments are appalling.

Whether you have sex after 10 minutes or wait 6 months isn’t right if wrong and no one should be judging anyone’s morals or character just fur making different choices.

Same reason why anyone posts on here - questioning things and canvassing views. I don’t see a man paying for stuff as a red flag, I also know he isn’t married, and rather than ‘insist on it all being perfect’ I was more just trying to give context to the situation as I was confused at the level of vitriol in some posts purely because I let him pay for my travel and hotel which he willingly offered to do.

It was more the time element I was questioning and the financial element, alongside the effort he’s made to keep in touch, and check in, was to give context to how he seems to be invested and genuinely interested. In which case I don’t feel like it’s too soon, but even just on here there are posts saying how it is, you should wait 90 days, etc etc which just goes to show how conflicted the messaging is in society in general about it. So it’s interesting and given it’s been a while for me I just wondered what other people’s views are.

You're not cleverly snagging an excellent father to your unborn children by letting them pay for train tickets, dinner and five star hotels for you. There are plenty of men out there happy to throw big money at what would class as impressive and romantic dates, and they're also some of the biggest emotionally repressed duplicitous people out there. It's zero test of character, suitability as a partner, and it would only appeal or impress a woman that is interested in money, or the ability to be a kept in future. If that's what you're interested in.

This

Sure, and agreed. I didn’t argue to the contrary, I never said this man would be an excellent father because he paid for a train and hotel, but I totally appreciate what @GoldDuster is saying - but on the flip side, I personally would not continue to date a man who would expect me to travel a long way to see him with no acknowledgement of that extra time investment on his side, and then also expect to go halves on everything.

relationships are not 50:50 if the ultimate outcome of that relationship is to have children, they aren’t ‘50:50’ the minute you start sleeping together due to the extra risk on the woman’s side of a potential unplanned pregnancy, so I personally wouldn’t do that in the early stages of dating. I’m not really sure why this seems to be such an extreme view judging by some of the reactions.

You can rate a man on any criteria you choose -in your case it is his willingness to spend money whereas for others of us it is different qualities and we just choose not to exchange sex for money spent on hotel rooms. Only you can decide at what point for you he has spent a sufficient amount

Wow. Please actually read my previous posts and ask yourself why you seem to be so angry about the whole situation that you’re just insulting someone online with no justification. At no point have I ever said my only criteria was willingness to spend money. I appreciate generosity, the effort to impress, and the fact he wanted to make it possible to see me, and the time and effort he has spent chatting and actually getting to know me. I mentioned all of those things in the OP. Not just the money at all. I was giving context to the question as to whether it was the right time to take it further.

But according to some posters on here, far better to schlep across the country to pay for my own dinner and accommodation and travel to make it all possible just to go on a date with this man, expecting to compensate him for my awkward living location despite the fact he was the one that asked me out. I mean come on.

this thread is bizarre 😂 I can’t engage anymore.

far better to schlep across the country to pay for my own dinner and accommodation and travel

Well, yes. This is what self-respecting, independent women do.

you can’t be serious. He asks me out and I jump and say of course, let me make that possible and super easy for you? Don’t worry about any effort your side. Just turn up and buy your own dinner. I’ll just give up hours of my time for the privilege.

That’s self respect?

It's not spending money that I think is a potential red flag, but the fact that he ended up in your hotel room, despite assuring you there was no expectation of this.

He could have paid for his own room and asked you to meet for breakfast - romantic! Or he could have kept an eye on the time so it wasn’t "too late" for him to leave. Or, being local, he could have got a taxi home.

It's a red flag that instead of being honest and open, he gave you some flannel about it being "too late" for him to go home. If you specifically invited him for sex, fine. Or vice versa. But it just strikes me as tricksy.

Spending money is not an indication that he is or isn't interested in a relationship with you. He may just want sex. Which is fine, if you feel the same way. But it sounds like you are wanting more than that.

So, why not just ask him for what you want?

The other thing about the money, I guess, is whether it make him feel entitled to sex with you. I don't think there's an issue with him paying for stuff if you both agree to that, but what does it mean to him? That's what I'd want to feel sure about. If there's any part of him that feels entitled, that's a problem, and I would personally want to know.

Of course, I am serious. If I make an appointment for dinner with someone, I don't expect them to compensate me for my time. I am a capable, autonomous adult.

Ok yes fair, I see what you’re saying. I’d have to take responsibility for that situation too though as I was enjoying myself and also wasn’t looking at the time.

I mean if I’d wanted to sleep with him I doubt he’d have said no 😂 but equally I don’t think it was engineered in such a way he was trying to ensure that happened. We’d spoken a lot before the first date as well.

I’m going to see what he suggests for a second date and take it from there. I think the thing that’s thrown me is that I like him more than expected and want to make sure I don’t drop my standards as a result. I suppose him staying even if we didn’t sleep together isn’t what I’d normally do, but I think that was me getting carried away as opposed to pressure from him, and that’s what I want to avoid.

To see a friend yes, but not a date. If I asked someone out as a man, and the woman ran around doing all that to simply make it possible, my immediate assumption would be desperation.

I like him more than expected and want to make sure I don’t drop my standards as a result

Instead of worrying about this, have a mull over what beliefs you hold that these standards are based on, and whether they're still working for you or they're a set of arbitrary rules that aren't fulfiling any function. Think about what would happen if you were to get "carried away", and why that would be a bad thing.

He's a stranger, not a boyfriend. I would see him on the same terms as a friend (paying my own way) until an actual relationship developed. Shacking up together in a hotel room is not a relationship.

Why do you expect to be compensated for your travel time?

Well a second red flag is that you overrode your usual boundaries for this man. That is a potential indication that it's not a healthy connection for you. A man who's right for you is going to make you feel absolutely confident to say no, to wait, and in fact, he will be concerned with making you feel totally comfortable and safe.

There's something risky and exciting about having a stranger in your hotel room, but if that's not a normal behaviour for you, I would be watching myself carefully. Why do it then?

Also, remember that it's easy to be good at a first date. You can be charming, generous, attentive, funny for an evening and many people are. But you don't know anything about this man, realistically. Would you normally have sex with someone who is, to all intents and purposes, one step up from a complete stranger? If not, why would you with him?

I'm not saying don't do it. But I have never consulted people on the internet about whether I want to have sex with someone unless something about the situation is making me uneasy. My perception is that you feel uneasy but you're second guessing yourself.

So, another option is to definitely not sleep with him for a while. Go on dates, get to know each other, decide if you're exclusive and then sleep with him. If he's serious about wanting a relationship with you, he'll enjoy this dating stage and so will you. There's no need to rush if you're not sure it's what you want. Wait until you know him better. Just a suggestion.

Alternatively, you might think, "it's going to be difficult for her to make an evening date near to me, and since it's a first date, lunch would be more low key and feel safer from her pov, so why don't I buy her a nice lunch and drop her off at the train station? If all goes well, maybe I'll offer to pay for a hotel for our second date - but don't want her to think I'm being pushy. Let's just see how we get on."

Why do you keep using these overly dramatic terms like the woman racing around, jumping up, offering to make things "super easy" and the man making zero effort, just turning up etc.

It is a date, a mutual thing. You seem to think he needs to financially compensate you for your part of the effort which is really weird. If the location was not convenient for you, you arrange a different location. It isn't normal to expect the other person to compensate you for your time and pay for a five star hotel for you.

Just go for it if that's what you want to do, whatever you're comfortable with is all that matters!

I slept with a guy on a first date and two and a half years later we now live together and have a baby!