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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Here is what is wrong with men in 2023 and what we can do about it

434 replies

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 17:52

Hi all. Ive come to a realisation lately that has almost brought me close to tears because I have to accept that Im probably going to be single for the rest of my life. Grab a cuppa because this is probably going to be long.

For context, I am a single 33 year old female with my own business, own house, no kids, independent, no baggage, relatively attractive (without blowing my own trumpet) and look young enough than my actual age, have a masters degree, love travelling, open minded, funny (I like to think so), clever, lots of friends, love socialising (out most weekends), and I have some depth to me and actually give a shit about things in life that a lot of people disregard, like animal welfare, homelessness etc. In a nutshell, I’m decent.

Here is the boat I find myself in…
I’ve had 3 proper relationships in my life, all no longer than 12 months, 2 of them verbally abusive and cheaters. Ive got a thick skin now and try not to take any shit and I’m aware of potential red flags that may pop up. Ive been on my own for over 5 years now, with little flings here and there. I’ve tried online dating, but the thing is, I only swipe for the ones conventionally ‘good looking’. By good looking I mean - nice smile and teeth, reasonably attractive, over 6ft (sorry – this is a dealbreaker for me but open minded to many other things), decent job, decent human being. I don’t care if theyre divorced or already have kids, I’m just fundamentally looking for the bare minimum – to fancy them, initially. I’ve had sexless relationships in the past and its not fun for either party – fancying someone is a must.

Whenever I fancy men in real life, I imagine if they were on a dating site and I ask myself if I’d have swiped for them based just on their pictures and the answer is no, I probably wouldn’t, unless of course they are the ‘conventionally good looking’ type that have had the balls to come over to me on a night out (rarely happens these days, and if it does, they turn out to be a narcissist – hence the macho confidence and charisma). So I know dating sites aren’t working for me, as Im much more likely to fancy someone when I can see the ‘fuller picture’ ie their voice, humour, intelligence, wittiness, their mannerisms etc etc. My theory is that most of the men that are conventionally ‘good looking’ and get the most swipes, are probably lacking in all the areas Ive listed above that are attractive traits, and are more than likely players as they have the pick of the bunch (we are ALL swiping for the good looking ones – and they fucking know it!).
You might ask why I haven’t settled down with the men ive met organically then above, the ‘normal’ ones that have traits I like. Here is where my problem really is – they have clocked on that they are a fucking rarity.

Have you been on a night out recently and looked around? There are about 15 attractive women to every ‘good looking’ man. I believe this is because women naturally take more pride in their appearance than men do, and now that we earn our own money, we splash it on treatments and tweakments. It isn’t unusual for a woman to have botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job and all the rest – infact, that’s pretty normal for a modern woman in 2023.
Equally, what are men having done? Well, theres the ones who give a shit about their appearance so they might go to the gym 4 times a week (no im not talking about sted heads - yuck), they may splash out in designer gear head to toe (cringe), or the ones with a little bit of class may shop at Reiss instead (better), but you get my jist. They might visit the barber once a week too for a fresh trim. And the rest of them? Nada. No gym, possibly a standard receding haircut or balding (that theyre not bothered about), maybe they haven’t gone shopping for years. But what do both of these types of men both have in common? They both think they are entitled to stunning women.

As ive explained, the ratio of attractive women to attractive men is off the scale. If you haven’t noticed it before, you will now, especially 40 year olds and under. 50 years ago, you were either pretty or you weren’t. You were either an alpha male at 6 ft 2, or you weren’t, and that was ok. You would simply marry up (literally) with someone who was in the same league as you. Now, women are having to lower their bar and accept less than what they deserve, simply because theres so much competition and not enough men to go around. Ask yourself, how many kind, gorgeous, successful, funny, clever, good yet single women do you know? I can bet it’s a lot.

Again, looking back at relationships 50 years ago and more, there was a ‘trade off’. Men needed sex (its in their DNA, they need it), and women needed protecting. Marriage made sense, both sexes were getting a good deal. Pretty much all women were virgins until they were married, and kind of understood the unwritten rule that they needed to ‘keep their man happy’. On the other hand, men kept us happy too. We didn’t need to work and split the finances, we had the luxury of staying at home, cooking, cleaning and raising the kids as regardless of what anyone says, women are more nurturing, emotional, and quite frankly - do a better job of bringing up the children. This worked out fine for men - they went to work, provided for their family (which triggered their hero instinct), and got their dick sucked in return. Masculine and feminine energy intertwined perfectly, sorry feminists, but its true. And the women were happy, until they weren’t.

We then kicked off that we wanted equal rights to men, equal pay, equal jobs, the list goes on, and we got it. We are now a bunch of independent, self sufficient, home owning, driving, single mothers. We’re basically masculine. The men haven’t changed their role though, they aren’t now staying at home, cooking, cleaning and bringing up the kids, they haven’t sacrificed anything but yet they are still reaping the awards. The award – sex.

We somehow have manipulated ourselves into believing that woman need sex like men do (we don’t), and we can sleep around, use men, get our kit off and call it ‘empowering’. It was only empowering when we got the respect we deserved 50 years ago and the mortgage paid. Now, we don’t get called the next day and get pied off for a woman 10 years younger. Men don’t want commitment, period. We nag them, we remind them of their mothers, they have more fun with their friends and we’re a headache to them. The only benefit they have from having a woman in their lives is sex. Period. And we have continued to spoil them with it, with minimal effort from them. We’re lucky if they buy us a plate of food before we do the honour. But we naturally want more, we are wired differently to men, and this is why they USED to meet us in the middle.

But here’s the thing, when we demand more (commitment), the men back off - have you noticed? We get ghosted when we want something in return. Do not let other women fool you into thinking both sexes are getting a good deal by having intercourse, we aren’t. Men inherently need sex, they think about sex thousands of times per day, they even pay for it, and women enjoy it…sometimes, but we don’t inherently need it.
So why on earth are we still having sex freely with men who haven’t earned it, sometimes even with strangers, and blaming being ghosted on countless other reasons? Hes not ready for commitment, hes been hurt before, hes too busy with work, hes avoidantly attached…he’s not. He just doesn’t want to buy the cow when the milk is free.

I personally have took a stance and have stopped having sex with men that haven’t put the bare minimum amount of effort in, to be frank. By bare minimum, I mean he returns my texts, picks me up, takes me out for a few dinners and is nice to me. I’m not asking for a lot. Ive read ‘Why Men Love Bitches’ and ‘The Rules’ – but these books only work with 2 willing participants. It still doesn’t develop into the fairytale romance I had once envisioned on the first date with him, he either doesn’t feel a connection or he’s backed away at the thought of committing.

Some of you will say “not all men are like that”. This is true. Here is my other theory – the ‘other’ men who may be short, insecure, abusive, jobless, homeless, ugly or stupid may be more than willing to settle down with me – you can bet their bottom dollar they are – but I would like someone who brings something to the table, like I do. I won’t fancy a man who is wet behind the ears, who is scared of a hard days work and would be happy to sit at home raising our kids – it’s not masculine and I don’t want it. The ‘other’ men who are none of the things I’ve listed above and are genuinely fantastic men with a lot to offer, raised right and want to commit to a good woman – guess what? THEY ARE ALREADY TAKEN. They were taken in their twenties, and they stayed with that woman, because they are kind, loving, loyal men.

The dating pool for 30, 40, 50 something women now is DIER and we are left with the commitment phobes, abusers, narcissists or tons of baggage that we don’t want. The feminist movement along with plastic surgery and ‘empowering’ women has damaged us. We now all offer the same thing to men and they are spoiled for choice. I was chatting with a male friend of mine not long ago who had been seeing a woman who ticked a lot of boxes but she wanted exclusivity before she agreed to have sex. He didn’t want to be exclusive or commit in any way to any woman, so he let her go. I asked him if he was confident if he would find a good woman like her again in the future, he said yes, and I believe him. We are all competing with each other to be the thinnest, prettiest, most enhanced, smartest, richest to bag the best man, and he’s sitting back and laughing at us all climb over each other in desperation. He’s chilled as a cucumber.

My biological clock is ticking, his isn’t. The men aren’t worried, we are. The men aren’t on mumsnet starting threads about women who won’t have sex with them, because we do. But trust me, if we took this big asset away, they would. Have you noticed how many eligible bachelors you know who just decide when theyre about 45-50 that they are ‘finally ready to settle down’? And they find someone pretty much right away, usually 15 years younger, a box ticker, no kids, no baggage and very fucking fertile. He becomes a dad and gets married and everyone goes “ah at last! He finally found -the One!”. No – she isn’t the one who changed him, she was the one who was there when he realised his looks were fading and he better take what he can while he can. Meanwhile, the women he messed around with back in the day are well into their fifties, still single, possibly childless and debating whether to date someone 20 years older who may cherish them the way no man their age ever did. Do I want to date someone 20 years older than me to feel special? No thanks.

I believe if we all took a stance and stopped giving men the one thing they NEED (sex), until they give us what we NEED (love and commitment), things will change. Stop sexting and sending nudes – they used to pay Babestation for that, now we’re doing it for free! Stop allowing them to waltz in and out of your life every other weekend when he feels like it. Stop popping kids out to undeserving men who wont even put a ring on your finger. A child is the greatest gift a woman can give to a man, its priceless and its basically fucking magical. Yet, people are allowing their wombs to be invaded by men who couldn’t give 2 shits about them when it comes down to it. We then raise fatherless children who grow up with daddy issues and the cycle repeats again. We need to raise the bar and say NO collectively, or else it won’t work. The bimbo on Saturday night who goes home with him after one drink (bare minimum) will undo all our hard work.
If the feminist movement hadn’t have happened, I don’t believe relationships would be as dire as they are right now. Its great that we earn the same as men and have our independence, but look at the price we have paid. They haven’t paid any price, nothing has changed for them, infact it only got EASIER. They still get sex and kids, but no bills or commitment – bingo! We have normalised this behaviour and it’s time to put an end to it.

I can turn down a man for sex tomorrow, but he’s not bothered because he always knows this… theres another desperate girl hoping that if she fucks like a pornstar Friday night she will bag him. She won’t. And he will move on to the next. Women look for love, men only fall in love by accident – by spending quality time with a woman. But they can’t fall in love if we give it up too easy when his foot is already out the door.

As you can tell I've given this a lot of thought and I'm disappointed with where I find myself at my age, and where I think the world is heading. Does anyone else feel the same way?

OP posts:
IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 19/01/2024 20:05

PersephonePomegranate23 · 19/01/2024 19:13

No man gives a fuck if she went to uni or makes good money, women might look for that in men but us men dont. Us men also dont look for girls who have slept around although women seem.turned off by men with less/no sexual experience.

Really? Just because you aim for women with little education and are so inexperienced they have no barometer of what a good relationship looks like, doesn't mean that's the same for all men!

My DH was delighted I was getting a degree because it meant it increased our earning potential as a partnership. This guy doesn't have a clue what men OR women want. Most decent men want a partner, not someone "to support while pregnant".

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 19/01/2024 20:06

Username49 · 19/01/2024 17:51

@Ascubudr ok well why dont you women just all date each other considering most of you are bisexual?

Are we? Thanks for letting me know. I needed a man to tell me my sexual orientation.

livelovelough24 · 19/01/2024 20:12

WTF did I just read!!! Wow! Is it noon yet? I'm gonna go have a glass of wine.

PersephonePomegranate23 · 19/01/2024 20:14

My DH was delighted I was getting a degree because it meant it increased our earning potential as a partnership. This guy doesn't have a clue what men OR women want. Mostdecentmen want a partner, not someone "to support while pregnant".

I suspect this person spends a lot if time under a bridge and I've reported as such.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 19/01/2024 20:21

Username49 · 19/01/2024 17:48

Well im very happy with my lovely GF who we both lost our virginities to (cause we both dont believe in sleeping around) and I make sure to treat her like a queen. I make enough money to be a provider while she is pregnant with my child so she wont need to worry about money. I dont watch porn or desire any other woman apart from her, I dont do drugs, I work hard and all I've wanted was to be a family man.

Can I ask you why, given your very strong beliefs around providing for your virigin woman etc, she's your girlfriend and not your wife? Especially as you say you're planning on trying for a baby? Will that not spoil her, being impregnated out of wedlock?

RantyAnty · 19/01/2024 20:26

Oneofthesurvivors · 08/01/2024 18:08

This reads like an incel wrote it and then reversed it.

Bingo! There's no way that a woman wrote that.

Bululu · 19/01/2024 20:30

Brexit has made it impossible for the good looking tall hunks to live here. 🤣🤣🤣

Bululu · 19/01/2024 20:36

Now seriously this online dating for men is like a child in a sweet shop. They never had it so easy to be serial daters and play around.

Weeteeny · 19/01/2024 21:19

This is misogyny in reverse and to be honest I think you sound incredibly shallow in your own pursuit of a man based on looks and height first and then the rest of characteristics related to their behaviours and personalities. You have this the wrong way around.
You are generalising men hugely.
There are men as you describe aout there but i dont think they are the norm.
They may be on dating sites though from what my friends tell me.
My wonderful DP of 8 years is 0.5 inches shorter than me , however if I had been you I would never have been with him. For goodness sake widen your eyes.

Yes there are awful men out there, my ex husband was one.

Addicted2Kale · 19/01/2024 21:46

You sound like you hate men and can't handle them. Stop complaining and stay single then. It's not that big a deal. You don't have to be in a relationship.

Addicted2Kale · 19/01/2024 22:26

I've actually read the whole post now. It's worse than I thought. Parody or not, the majority of women who internet date do think like her. And nearly always end up bitter Femcels. Goodness me. Thank goodness there are other women here in functional relationships to offset this rubbish.

kikil77 · 19/01/2024 22:27

Literally wtf

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 20/01/2024 11:33

This story was obviously written by an incel who believes women only date chads and would never date men with less than perfect physiques.
They believe women were happier pre- feminism and in this rather rambling story he imagines dire consequences for her of owning her own home, good career but no man.
In the story it’s implied that she would be happier in a pre feminist world where women withheld sex until marriage and married young as only men enjoy sex anyway.

Ladolcevita233 · 20/01/2024 11:43

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 20/01/2024 11:33

This story was obviously written by an incel who believes women only date chads and would never date men with less than perfect physiques.
They believe women were happier pre- feminism and in this rather rambling story he imagines dire consequences for her of owning her own home, good career but no man.
In the story it’s implied that she would be happier in a pre feminist world where women withheld sex until marriage and married young as only men enjoy sex anyway.

Yes, it only needs the addition of "all women are naturally bisexual/lesbian and arent really sexually attracted to men" to hit full crazy incel bingo - I see that has appeared above too.

Well mate ..... Just because women aren't sexually attracted to you, doesn't mean we're not sexually attracted to other men.

CollagenQueen · 20/01/2024 13:25

I think you've been given a hard time on here Op. I agree with some of your points, but not with others. I'm older than you at 54. On my second marriage, as are a lot of my friends. Here's my take.

Don't agree that most tall attractive men are more likely to be cheaters. My 1st DH was only 5ft 7. He cheated throughout our 20 year relationship (I didn't know at the time). I think he had "small man syndrome" and needed constant female validation, to be honest. I was way prettier than he was handsome, and I was a good wife, doing more around the home, always faithful and also gave him 2 children. It wasn't enough. My 2nd husband is 6ft 3, conventionally handsome, very confident, sexy job (Police), and he wouldn't so much as look at another woman. We've been together for almost 16 years and he has never let me down.

I think there's something to be said for getting married too young. Me and all my friends got married in our early 20's, and every single one of our husbands started getting a roving eye in their 30's. A case of having settled down before they had the chance to sleep around. They all cheated.

My husband now was 35 when we met and had already had lots of girlfriends, and was desperate to find The One and settle down. He had also had some dreadful experiences with women : one told him she was pregnant with his baby, which wasn't true, another ghosted him after 2 years together and it turned out she'd gone on a huge drugs bender and was having orgy's with strangers.

I think OLD is a disaster for many, because anyone on there that's a bit older, is usually carrying some emotional baggage from past relationships that have failed. I know that me and DH were, and we had to learn to trust each other, and trust that we wouldn't behave in the same way that past partners had. It took time to believe in each other.

Looking at your comments :

I’ve tried online dating, but the thing is, I only swipe for the ones conventionally ‘good looking

I know plenty of men, who don't take a good photo, but in real life they are very handsome - the way they move or laugh, their confidence etc. So I'd maybe lower your standards here. I get the height thing - I find DH's height a huge turn on, so I'd probably keep that filter in.

Have you been on a night out recently and looked around? There are about 15 attractive women to every ‘good looking’ man

I guarantee you that those women would look rather plain, once they have taken all their make up off, hair extensions off etc.

Equally, what are men having done?

Honestly, real manly men, don't have "stuff" done. DH is as manly as it gets - he has his hair cut and that's it.

Again, looking back at relationships 50 years ago and more, there was a ‘trade off’. Men needed sex (its in their DNA, they need it), and women needed protecting

I don't agree with this really. I have a higher sex drive than DH.

Marriage made sense, both sexes were getting a good deal. Pretty much all women were virgins until they were married, and kind of understood the unwritten rule that they needed to ‘keep their man happy

Many women said they were virgins when they married, but a lot of that was lies. Remember the 1960's were called the swinging 60's. It was the age of hippies and free love. Women were definitely having sex before marriage.

On the other hand, men kept us happy too. We didn’t need to work and split the finances, we had the luxury of staying at home, cooking, cleaning and raising the kids as regardless of what anyone says, women are more nurturing, emotional, and quite frankly - do a better job of bringing up the children. This worked out fine for men - they went to work, provided for their family (which triggered their hero instinct), and got their dick sucked in return. Masculine and feminine energy intertwined perfectly, sorry feminists, but its true. And the women were happy, until they weren’t

I think on the surface many families looked happy, but that it was just a facade. My family had nice holidays and a nice house. It all looked great from the outside, but my Dad was abusive to my Mum, and she didn't have any money of her own, so she couldn't leave. In their retirement he turned into an alcoholic and she didn't have a nice retirement with him at all, and she told me many times that she hated him. Women now have freedom, their own money etc, and I wouldn't ever want to trade that in.

The award – sex

Don't you like sex? Me and my DH have sex almost every day. It's not me giving it to him as an award, I want it too.

We somehow have manipulated ourselves into believing that woman need sex like men do (we don’t)

Yes, we do.

and we can sleep around, use men, get our kit off and call it ‘empowering’. It was only empowering when we got the respect we deserved 50 years ago and the mortgage paid. Now, we don’t get called the next day and get pied off for a woman 10 years younger

It's a double standard, but in my experience men bin off women who sleep with them on a first date, because they think "well, if she slept with me on the first date, she will be doing that with all men, and I don't want a relationship with a woman that sleeps around".

I personally have took a stance and have stopped having sex with men that haven’t put the bare minimum amount of effort in, to be frank. By bare minimum, I mean he returns my texts, picks me up, takes me out for a few dinners and is nice to me. I’m not asking for a lot. Ive read ‘Why Men Love Bitches’ and ‘The Rules’ – but these books only work with 2 willing participants. It still doesn’t develop into the fairytale romance I had once envisioned on the first date with him, he either doesn’t feel a connection or he’s backed away at the thought of committing

I agree that this is a good stance.

The ‘other’ men who are none of the things I’ve listed above and are genuinely fantastic men with a lot to offer, raised right and want to commit to a good woman – guess what? THEY ARE ALREADY TAKEN. They were taken in their twenties, and they stayed with that woman, because they are kind, loving, loyal men

Of course this happens often. My own DD has just got married - they are both 25 and hopefully will stay together forever. They are what you would call high value individuals. Conventionally attractive, good jobs, he is tall etc etc.

The dating pool for 30, 40, 50 something women now is DIRE and we are left with the commitment phobes, abusers, narcissists or tons of baggage that we don’t want

Yes, I agree. But that's true for men AND women. Lots of older people, who have been trapped in sad sexless marriages, for a long time, who quite simply want to now experience the thrill of sleeping around, but also are damaged and fearful of being hurt again. It's a toxic cocktail.

My biological clock is ticking, his isn’t. The men aren’t worried, we are

True.

Have you noticed how many eligible bachelors you know who just decide when theyre about 45-50 that they are ‘finally ready to settle down’? And they find someone pretty much right away, usually 15 years younger, a box ticker, no kids, no baggage and very fucking fertile. He becomes a dad and gets married and everyone goes “ah at last! He finally found -the One!”. No – she isn’t the one who changed him, she was the one who was there when he realised his looks were fading and he better take what he can while he can

Yeah, that's annoying.

Stop sexting and sending nudes – they used to pay Babestation for that, now we’re doing it for free! Stop allowing them to waltz in and out of your life every other weekend when he feels like it. Stop popping kids out to undeserving men who wont even put a ring on your finger

I agree with this. And stop all this "Friends with Benefits" bullshit. The only person who benefits is the man, because now he gets sex without even having to buy you dinner. Meanwhile, most women are secretly hoping that if they fuck enough he will fall in love with her. No he won't, he will just booty call you when he can't get sex somewhere else. He will also be banging other women at the same time as you.

Ultimately Op, you can't change other peoples behaviour though. Men and women will search desperately for the thrill of sex via OLD. Some are looking for just that, others are looking for commitment. Can you make it clear on your profile you're looking for a serious relationship? And like you say, don't jump in to having sex until you're comfortable that it's going somewhere?

Me and DH met on OLD, and my son and his long term GF did also, so it DOES work out for lots of people. It's a numbers game and you just have to keep trying. I wish you lots of luck with it. This phase won't last forever.

Anotherparkingthread · 20/01/2024 14:52

You are want all women to stop having sex with all men so that one becomes desperate enough to settle down with you?

Also so what if a man decides he's ready to settle down at 40 or 50? It's his decision and no amount of wahh wahh this isn't fair is going to take that from him.

You sound like you hate women. Especially those you consider younger, more attractive or more desirable than you. Yuk.

Also stop being surprised you're being ghosted when you have upped your standards to before sex you expect a text and dinner. I don't even know where you found these men or how you even engaged in shagging them without that as bare minimum in the first place!

I would never settle down with you in a million years and it's not because of how you look lol, I say that as a bi woman.

MrsBrianMay · 20/01/2024 16:56

Ladolcevita233 · 20/01/2024 11:43

Yes, it only needs the addition of "all women are naturally bisexual/lesbian and arent really sexually attracted to men" to hit full crazy incel bingo - I see that has appeared above too.

Well mate ..... Just because women aren't sexually attracted to you, doesn't mean we're not sexually attracted to other men.

Edited

I've read quite a few of your posts.

Some could say you are quite mad.

Good to know you are attracted to men tho.

Q2C4 · 29/01/2024 12:06

"It isn’t unusual for a woman to have botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job and all the rest – infact, that’s pretty normal for a modern woman in 2023."

It really isn't. I don't know any women that do all of this. The women I do see in the media like this I find usually look pretty fake.

Lassiata · 29/01/2024 16:59

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 17:52

Hi all. Ive come to a realisation lately that has almost brought me close to tears because I have to accept that Im probably going to be single for the rest of my life. Grab a cuppa because this is probably going to be long.

For context, I am a single 33 year old female with my own business, own house, no kids, independent, no baggage, relatively attractive (without blowing my own trumpet) and look young enough than my actual age, have a masters degree, love travelling, open minded, funny (I like to think so), clever, lots of friends, love socialising (out most weekends), and I have some depth to me and actually give a shit about things in life that a lot of people disregard, like animal welfare, homelessness etc. In a nutshell, I’m decent.

Here is the boat I find myself in…
I’ve had 3 proper relationships in my life, all no longer than 12 months, 2 of them verbally abusive and cheaters. Ive got a thick skin now and try not to take any shit and I’m aware of potential red flags that may pop up. Ive been on my own for over 5 years now, with little flings here and there. I’ve tried online dating, but the thing is, I only swipe for the ones conventionally ‘good looking’. By good looking I mean - nice smile and teeth, reasonably attractive, over 6ft (sorry – this is a dealbreaker for me but open minded to many other things), decent job, decent human being. I don’t care if theyre divorced or already have kids, I’m just fundamentally looking for the bare minimum – to fancy them, initially. I’ve had sexless relationships in the past and its not fun for either party – fancying someone is a must.

Whenever I fancy men in real life, I imagine if they were on a dating site and I ask myself if I’d have swiped for them based just on their pictures and the answer is no, I probably wouldn’t, unless of course they are the ‘conventionally good looking’ type that have had the balls to come over to me on a night out (rarely happens these days, and if it does, they turn out to be a narcissist – hence the macho confidence and charisma). So I know dating sites aren’t working for me, as Im much more likely to fancy someone when I can see the ‘fuller picture’ ie their voice, humour, intelligence, wittiness, their mannerisms etc etc. My theory is that most of the men that are conventionally ‘good looking’ and get the most swipes, are probably lacking in all the areas Ive listed above that are attractive traits, and are more than likely players as they have the pick of the bunch (we are ALL swiping for the good looking ones – and they fucking know it!).
You might ask why I haven’t settled down with the men ive met organically then above, the ‘normal’ ones that have traits I like. Here is where my problem really is – they have clocked on that they are a fucking rarity.

Have you been on a night out recently and looked around? There are about 15 attractive women to every ‘good looking’ man. I believe this is because women naturally take more pride in their appearance than men do, and now that we earn our own money, we splash it on treatments and tweakments. It isn’t unusual for a woman to have botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job and all the rest – infact, that’s pretty normal for a modern woman in 2023.
Equally, what are men having done? Well, theres the ones who give a shit about their appearance so they might go to the gym 4 times a week (no im not talking about sted heads - yuck), they may splash out in designer gear head to toe (cringe), or the ones with a little bit of class may shop at Reiss instead (better), but you get my jist. They might visit the barber once a week too for a fresh trim. And the rest of them? Nada. No gym, possibly a standard receding haircut or balding (that theyre not bothered about), maybe they haven’t gone shopping for years. But what do both of these types of men both have in common? They both think they are entitled to stunning women.

As ive explained, the ratio of attractive women to attractive men is off the scale. If you haven’t noticed it before, you will now, especially 40 year olds and under. 50 years ago, you were either pretty or you weren’t. You were either an alpha male at 6 ft 2, or you weren’t, and that was ok. You would simply marry up (literally) with someone who was in the same league as you. Now, women are having to lower their bar and accept less than what they deserve, simply because theres so much competition and not enough men to go around. Ask yourself, how many kind, gorgeous, successful, funny, clever, good yet single women do you know? I can bet it’s a lot.

Again, looking back at relationships 50 years ago and more, there was a ‘trade off’. Men needed sex (its in their DNA, they need it), and women needed protecting. Marriage made sense, both sexes were getting a good deal. Pretty much all women were virgins until they were married, and kind of understood the unwritten rule that they needed to ‘keep their man happy’. On the other hand, men kept us happy too. We didn’t need to work and split the finances, we had the luxury of staying at home, cooking, cleaning and raising the kids as regardless of what anyone says, women are more nurturing, emotional, and quite frankly - do a better job of bringing up the children. This worked out fine for men - they went to work, provided for their family (which triggered their hero instinct), and got their dick sucked in return. Masculine and feminine energy intertwined perfectly, sorry feminists, but its true. And the women were happy, until they weren’t.

We then kicked off that we wanted equal rights to men, equal pay, equal jobs, the list goes on, and we got it. We are now a bunch of independent, self sufficient, home owning, driving, single mothers. We’re basically masculine. The men haven’t changed their role though, they aren’t now staying at home, cooking, cleaning and bringing up the kids, they haven’t sacrificed anything but yet they are still reaping the awards. The award – sex.

We somehow have manipulated ourselves into believing that woman need sex like men do (we don’t), and we can sleep around, use men, get our kit off and call it ‘empowering’. It was only empowering when we got the respect we deserved 50 years ago and the mortgage paid. Now, we don’t get called the next day and get pied off for a woman 10 years younger. Men don’t want commitment, period. We nag them, we remind them of their mothers, they have more fun with their friends and we’re a headache to them. The only benefit they have from having a woman in their lives is sex. Period. And we have continued to spoil them with it, with minimal effort from them. We’re lucky if they buy us a plate of food before we do the honour. But we naturally want more, we are wired differently to men, and this is why they USED to meet us in the middle.

But here’s the thing, when we demand more (commitment), the men back off - have you noticed? We get ghosted when we want something in return. Do not let other women fool you into thinking both sexes are getting a good deal by having intercourse, we aren’t. Men inherently need sex, they think about sex thousands of times per day, they even pay for it, and women enjoy it…sometimes, but we don’t inherently need it.
So why on earth are we still having sex freely with men who haven’t earned it, sometimes even with strangers, and blaming being ghosted on countless other reasons? Hes not ready for commitment, hes been hurt before, hes too busy with work, hes avoidantly attached…he’s not. He just doesn’t want to buy the cow when the milk is free.

I personally have took a stance and have stopped having sex with men that haven’t put the bare minimum amount of effort in, to be frank. By bare minimum, I mean he returns my texts, picks me up, takes me out for a few dinners and is nice to me. I’m not asking for a lot. Ive read ‘Why Men Love Bitches’ and ‘The Rules’ – but these books only work with 2 willing participants. It still doesn’t develop into the fairytale romance I had once envisioned on the first date with him, he either doesn’t feel a connection or he’s backed away at the thought of committing.

Some of you will say “not all men are like that”. This is true. Here is my other theory – the ‘other’ men who may be short, insecure, abusive, jobless, homeless, ugly or stupid may be more than willing to settle down with me – you can bet their bottom dollar they are – but I would like someone who brings something to the table, like I do. I won’t fancy a man who is wet behind the ears, who is scared of a hard days work and would be happy to sit at home raising our kids – it’s not masculine and I don’t want it. The ‘other’ men who are none of the things I’ve listed above and are genuinely fantastic men with a lot to offer, raised right and want to commit to a good woman – guess what? THEY ARE ALREADY TAKEN. They were taken in their twenties, and they stayed with that woman, because they are kind, loving, loyal men.

The dating pool for 30, 40, 50 something women now is DIER and we are left with the commitment phobes, abusers, narcissists or tons of baggage that we don’t want. The feminist movement along with plastic surgery and ‘empowering’ women has damaged us. We now all offer the same thing to men and they are spoiled for choice. I was chatting with a male friend of mine not long ago who had been seeing a woman who ticked a lot of boxes but she wanted exclusivity before she agreed to have sex. He didn’t want to be exclusive or commit in any way to any woman, so he let her go. I asked him if he was confident if he would find a good woman like her again in the future, he said yes, and I believe him. We are all competing with each other to be the thinnest, prettiest, most enhanced, smartest, richest to bag the best man, and he’s sitting back and laughing at us all climb over each other in desperation. He’s chilled as a cucumber.

My biological clock is ticking, his isn’t. The men aren’t worried, we are. The men aren’t on mumsnet starting threads about women who won’t have sex with them, because we do. But trust me, if we took this big asset away, they would. Have you noticed how many eligible bachelors you know who just decide when theyre about 45-50 that they are ‘finally ready to settle down’? And they find someone pretty much right away, usually 15 years younger, a box ticker, no kids, no baggage and very fucking fertile. He becomes a dad and gets married and everyone goes “ah at last! He finally found -the One!”. No – she isn’t the one who changed him, she was the one who was there when he realised his looks were fading and he better take what he can while he can. Meanwhile, the women he messed around with back in the day are well into their fifties, still single, possibly childless and debating whether to date someone 20 years older who may cherish them the way no man their age ever did. Do I want to date someone 20 years older than me to feel special? No thanks.

I believe if we all took a stance and stopped giving men the one thing they NEED (sex), until they give us what we NEED (love and commitment), things will change. Stop sexting and sending nudes – they used to pay Babestation for that, now we’re doing it for free! Stop allowing them to waltz in and out of your life every other weekend when he feels like it. Stop popping kids out to undeserving men who wont even put a ring on your finger. A child is the greatest gift a woman can give to a man, its priceless and its basically fucking magical. Yet, people are allowing their wombs to be invaded by men who couldn’t give 2 shits about them when it comes down to it. We then raise fatherless children who grow up with daddy issues and the cycle repeats again. We need to raise the bar and say NO collectively, or else it won’t work. The bimbo on Saturday night who goes home with him after one drink (bare minimum) will undo all our hard work.
If the feminist movement hadn’t have happened, I don’t believe relationships would be as dire as they are right now. Its great that we earn the same as men and have our independence, but look at the price we have paid. They haven’t paid any price, nothing has changed for them, infact it only got EASIER. They still get sex and kids, but no bills or commitment – bingo! We have normalised this behaviour and it’s time to put an end to it.

I can turn down a man for sex tomorrow, but he’s not bothered because he always knows this… theres another desperate girl hoping that if she fucks like a pornstar Friday night she will bag him. She won’t. And he will move on to the next. Women look for love, men only fall in love by accident – by spending quality time with a woman. But they can’t fall in love if we give it up too easy when his foot is already out the door.

As you can tell I've given this a lot of thought and I'm disappointed with where I find myself at my age, and where I think the world is heading. Does anyone else feel the same way?

"I have some depth to me and actually give a shit about things in life that a lot of people disregard, like animal welfare, homelessness etc. In a nutshell, I’m decent. "

Most people care about this shit. You sound conceited.

"I believe this is because women naturally take more pride in their appearance than men do, and now that we earn our own money, we splash it on treatments and tweakments. It isn’t unusual for a woman to have botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job and all the rest – infact, that’s pretty normal for a modern woman in 2023. " It absolutely is unusual, and that shit doesn't make women look good anyway.

"The feminist movement along with plastic surgery and ‘empowering’ women has damaged us. We now all offer the same thing to men and they are spoiled for choice." Er speak for yourself?

"We are all competing with each other to be the thinnest, prettiest, most enhanced, smartest, richest to bag the best man, and he’s sitting back and laughing at us all climb over each other in desperation. He’s chilled as a cucumber."
See above.

I just don't think we live in the same world. I met my husband at a residential for an art we both practise. He is 6 foot and very attractive, then and now, imo. Very smart. A bit older than me. Wanted to get married. Wanted children. Supports the family. Supports my career goals. Does more than 50% of cooking, cleaning, laundry. We have a strong intellectual and emotional connection. Romantic, (enough for me) good at birthdays etc. Loves my family (and I love his.) He's as annoying as fuck sometimes but still.
Maybe try meeting people in contexts that emphasise your personality, not your looks. I'd never date someone I met in a pub or club.

Ladolcevita233 · 29/01/2024 17:43

MrsBrianMay · 20/01/2024 16:56

I've read quite a few of your posts.

Some could say you are quite mad.

Good to know you are attracted to men tho.

What?

bombastix · 29/01/2024 17:54

Good gravy. Find some real problems.

Thehigheroffer · 29/01/2024 19:31

The OP does seem to have a very high opinion of herself

Whereisthelove2 · 29/01/2024 20:34

I quite agree with a lot of your points OP, and understand what you mean about the ones being misconstrued.

I’m in my late 30’s and I’m not prepared to date and have sex with men I barely know. And so I have now resigned to the fact I will be unlikely to meet a future partner. I would only accept a partner who matches my care and effort within the relationship. So between this and having my own children, I’m not a good option for a man. I was horrified at how many woman my ex had sex with after he destroyed our family, it seems to be the norm now.

WavingCatsandDogs · 31/01/2024 05:16

Thehigheroffer · 29/01/2024 19:31

The OP does seem to have a very high opinion of herself

Why shouldn't she?

Her opinion is the one that counts.

Many of us don't hold ourselves in the highest regard. Hence shagging losers.

TheCadoganArms · 31/01/2024 07:10

WavingCatsandDogs · 31/01/2024 05:16

Why shouldn't she?

Her opinion is the one that counts.

Many of us don't hold ourselves in the highest regard. Hence shagging losers.

Well shagging losers or having an unrealisticly high opinion of yourself are not the only two options on the table.

It is possible to have self esteem and a bit of confidence in yourself and possessing some self awareness while also maintaining some healthy criteria on your dating preferences.

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