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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Here is what is wrong with men in 2023 and what we can do about it

434 replies

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 17:52

Hi all. Ive come to a realisation lately that has almost brought me close to tears because I have to accept that Im probably going to be single for the rest of my life. Grab a cuppa because this is probably going to be long.

For context, I am a single 33 year old female with my own business, own house, no kids, independent, no baggage, relatively attractive (without blowing my own trumpet) and look young enough than my actual age, have a masters degree, love travelling, open minded, funny (I like to think so), clever, lots of friends, love socialising (out most weekends), and I have some depth to me and actually give a shit about things in life that a lot of people disregard, like animal welfare, homelessness etc. In a nutshell, I’m decent.

Here is the boat I find myself in…
I’ve had 3 proper relationships in my life, all no longer than 12 months, 2 of them verbally abusive and cheaters. Ive got a thick skin now and try not to take any shit and I’m aware of potential red flags that may pop up. Ive been on my own for over 5 years now, with little flings here and there. I’ve tried online dating, but the thing is, I only swipe for the ones conventionally ‘good looking’. By good looking I mean - nice smile and teeth, reasonably attractive, over 6ft (sorry – this is a dealbreaker for me but open minded to many other things), decent job, decent human being. I don’t care if theyre divorced or already have kids, I’m just fundamentally looking for the bare minimum – to fancy them, initially. I’ve had sexless relationships in the past and its not fun for either party – fancying someone is a must.

Whenever I fancy men in real life, I imagine if they were on a dating site and I ask myself if I’d have swiped for them based just on their pictures and the answer is no, I probably wouldn’t, unless of course they are the ‘conventionally good looking’ type that have had the balls to come over to me on a night out (rarely happens these days, and if it does, they turn out to be a narcissist – hence the macho confidence and charisma). So I know dating sites aren’t working for me, as Im much more likely to fancy someone when I can see the ‘fuller picture’ ie their voice, humour, intelligence, wittiness, their mannerisms etc etc. My theory is that most of the men that are conventionally ‘good looking’ and get the most swipes, are probably lacking in all the areas Ive listed above that are attractive traits, and are more than likely players as they have the pick of the bunch (we are ALL swiping for the good looking ones – and they fucking know it!).
You might ask why I haven’t settled down with the men ive met organically then above, the ‘normal’ ones that have traits I like. Here is where my problem really is – they have clocked on that they are a fucking rarity.

Have you been on a night out recently and looked around? There are about 15 attractive women to every ‘good looking’ man. I believe this is because women naturally take more pride in their appearance than men do, and now that we earn our own money, we splash it on treatments and tweakments. It isn’t unusual for a woman to have botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job and all the rest – infact, that’s pretty normal for a modern woman in 2023.
Equally, what are men having done? Well, theres the ones who give a shit about their appearance so they might go to the gym 4 times a week (no im not talking about sted heads - yuck), they may splash out in designer gear head to toe (cringe), or the ones with a little bit of class may shop at Reiss instead (better), but you get my jist. They might visit the barber once a week too for a fresh trim. And the rest of them? Nada. No gym, possibly a standard receding haircut or balding (that theyre not bothered about), maybe they haven’t gone shopping for years. But what do both of these types of men both have in common? They both think they are entitled to stunning women.

As ive explained, the ratio of attractive women to attractive men is off the scale. If you haven’t noticed it before, you will now, especially 40 year olds and under. 50 years ago, you were either pretty or you weren’t. You were either an alpha male at 6 ft 2, or you weren’t, and that was ok. You would simply marry up (literally) with someone who was in the same league as you. Now, women are having to lower their bar and accept less than what they deserve, simply because theres so much competition and not enough men to go around. Ask yourself, how many kind, gorgeous, successful, funny, clever, good yet single women do you know? I can bet it’s a lot.

Again, looking back at relationships 50 years ago and more, there was a ‘trade off’. Men needed sex (its in their DNA, they need it), and women needed protecting. Marriage made sense, both sexes were getting a good deal. Pretty much all women were virgins until they were married, and kind of understood the unwritten rule that they needed to ‘keep their man happy’. On the other hand, men kept us happy too. We didn’t need to work and split the finances, we had the luxury of staying at home, cooking, cleaning and raising the kids as regardless of what anyone says, women are more nurturing, emotional, and quite frankly - do a better job of bringing up the children. This worked out fine for men - they went to work, provided for their family (which triggered their hero instinct), and got their dick sucked in return. Masculine and feminine energy intertwined perfectly, sorry feminists, but its true. And the women were happy, until they weren’t.

We then kicked off that we wanted equal rights to men, equal pay, equal jobs, the list goes on, and we got it. We are now a bunch of independent, self sufficient, home owning, driving, single mothers. We’re basically masculine. The men haven’t changed their role though, they aren’t now staying at home, cooking, cleaning and bringing up the kids, they haven’t sacrificed anything but yet they are still reaping the awards. The award – sex.

We somehow have manipulated ourselves into believing that woman need sex like men do (we don’t), and we can sleep around, use men, get our kit off and call it ‘empowering’. It was only empowering when we got the respect we deserved 50 years ago and the mortgage paid. Now, we don’t get called the next day and get pied off for a woman 10 years younger. Men don’t want commitment, period. We nag them, we remind them of their mothers, they have more fun with their friends and we’re a headache to them. The only benefit they have from having a woman in their lives is sex. Period. And we have continued to spoil them with it, with minimal effort from them. We’re lucky if they buy us a plate of food before we do the honour. But we naturally want more, we are wired differently to men, and this is why they USED to meet us in the middle.

But here’s the thing, when we demand more (commitment), the men back off - have you noticed? We get ghosted when we want something in return. Do not let other women fool you into thinking both sexes are getting a good deal by having intercourse, we aren’t. Men inherently need sex, they think about sex thousands of times per day, they even pay for it, and women enjoy it…sometimes, but we don’t inherently need it.
So why on earth are we still having sex freely with men who haven’t earned it, sometimes even with strangers, and blaming being ghosted on countless other reasons? Hes not ready for commitment, hes been hurt before, hes too busy with work, hes avoidantly attached…he’s not. He just doesn’t want to buy the cow when the milk is free.

I personally have took a stance and have stopped having sex with men that haven’t put the bare minimum amount of effort in, to be frank. By bare minimum, I mean he returns my texts, picks me up, takes me out for a few dinners and is nice to me. I’m not asking for a lot. Ive read ‘Why Men Love Bitches’ and ‘The Rules’ – but these books only work with 2 willing participants. It still doesn’t develop into the fairytale romance I had once envisioned on the first date with him, he either doesn’t feel a connection or he’s backed away at the thought of committing.

Some of you will say “not all men are like that”. This is true. Here is my other theory – the ‘other’ men who may be short, insecure, abusive, jobless, homeless, ugly or stupid may be more than willing to settle down with me – you can bet their bottom dollar they are – but I would like someone who brings something to the table, like I do. I won’t fancy a man who is wet behind the ears, who is scared of a hard days work and would be happy to sit at home raising our kids – it’s not masculine and I don’t want it. The ‘other’ men who are none of the things I’ve listed above and are genuinely fantastic men with a lot to offer, raised right and want to commit to a good woman – guess what? THEY ARE ALREADY TAKEN. They were taken in their twenties, and they stayed with that woman, because they are kind, loving, loyal men.

The dating pool for 30, 40, 50 something women now is DIER and we are left with the commitment phobes, abusers, narcissists or tons of baggage that we don’t want. The feminist movement along with plastic surgery and ‘empowering’ women has damaged us. We now all offer the same thing to men and they are spoiled for choice. I was chatting with a male friend of mine not long ago who had been seeing a woman who ticked a lot of boxes but she wanted exclusivity before she agreed to have sex. He didn’t want to be exclusive or commit in any way to any woman, so he let her go. I asked him if he was confident if he would find a good woman like her again in the future, he said yes, and I believe him. We are all competing with each other to be the thinnest, prettiest, most enhanced, smartest, richest to bag the best man, and he’s sitting back and laughing at us all climb over each other in desperation. He’s chilled as a cucumber.

My biological clock is ticking, his isn’t. The men aren’t worried, we are. The men aren’t on mumsnet starting threads about women who won’t have sex with them, because we do. But trust me, if we took this big asset away, they would. Have you noticed how many eligible bachelors you know who just decide when theyre about 45-50 that they are ‘finally ready to settle down’? And they find someone pretty much right away, usually 15 years younger, a box ticker, no kids, no baggage and very fucking fertile. He becomes a dad and gets married and everyone goes “ah at last! He finally found -the One!”. No – she isn’t the one who changed him, she was the one who was there when he realised his looks were fading and he better take what he can while he can. Meanwhile, the women he messed around with back in the day are well into their fifties, still single, possibly childless and debating whether to date someone 20 years older who may cherish them the way no man their age ever did. Do I want to date someone 20 years older than me to feel special? No thanks.

I believe if we all took a stance and stopped giving men the one thing they NEED (sex), until they give us what we NEED (love and commitment), things will change. Stop sexting and sending nudes – they used to pay Babestation for that, now we’re doing it for free! Stop allowing them to waltz in and out of your life every other weekend when he feels like it. Stop popping kids out to undeserving men who wont even put a ring on your finger. A child is the greatest gift a woman can give to a man, its priceless and its basically fucking magical. Yet, people are allowing their wombs to be invaded by men who couldn’t give 2 shits about them when it comes down to it. We then raise fatherless children who grow up with daddy issues and the cycle repeats again. We need to raise the bar and say NO collectively, or else it won’t work. The bimbo on Saturday night who goes home with him after one drink (bare minimum) will undo all our hard work.
If the feminist movement hadn’t have happened, I don’t believe relationships would be as dire as they are right now. Its great that we earn the same as men and have our independence, but look at the price we have paid. They haven’t paid any price, nothing has changed for them, infact it only got EASIER. They still get sex and kids, but no bills or commitment – bingo! We have normalised this behaviour and it’s time to put an end to it.

I can turn down a man for sex tomorrow, but he’s not bothered because he always knows this… theres another desperate girl hoping that if she fucks like a pornstar Friday night she will bag him. She won’t. And he will move on to the next. Women look for love, men only fall in love by accident – by spending quality time with a woman. But they can’t fall in love if we give it up too easy when his foot is already out the door.

As you can tell I've given this a lot of thought and I'm disappointed with where I find myself at my age, and where I think the world is heading. Does anyone else feel the same way?

OP posts:
ImCamembertTheBigCheese · 09/01/2024 19:38

Given your list of requirements may I quote a famous character:

"I am no longer surprised at your knowing only six accomplished women. I rather wonder at your knowing any.”

User1789 · 09/01/2024 19:51

ILostMy20s · 09/01/2024 14:49

Maybe I'll be in the minority with this, but I personally don't understand the modern obsession with people's height. Particularly on dating apps, I think there's the danger you just dismiss someone purely on that, when in actual fact, most people would probably struggle to mentally picture the difference between someone who's 5'8, 5'9 or 5'10.

Perhaps that shows I'm just bad at visualising height, but I just think it's such a silly characteristic to dismiss someone over when it has no bearing on who they are as a person whatsoever. I think if you've the sort of person who has one of these ridiculously specific "rules" such as you'd date someone who's 5'10, but not someone who's 5'9, you probably deserve to be on your own anyway.

And unless you're wanting your future child to become a star basketball player, why on earth do you need a partner to be over six foot?

Yep, as I said in my PP, people defo liked 'tall men' 20 years ago, but I am guessing a number of those men deemed 'tall' were 5'10''+. I have no idea what the exact height of previous boyfriends was, but would guess they would range from 5'4''-6'2''. I could be a good couple of inches off though, and life is soooo much easier simply not caring!

5128gap · 09/01/2024 19:53

User1789 · 09/01/2024 19:35

The weirdness about 6' or over men is a relatively new thing. Yes people prefered 'tall men' in the early 00s when I was last dating, but nobody was putting a number on it, and short men got laid (Source: my hoe phase).

For somebody who considers yourself 'decent' you are actually a deeply objectifying person in your insistance men need to be tall and handsome to fuck women, who's power lies in being fucked. I wouldn't want to marry somebody with that attitude OP, fwiw.

Women have typically wanted men to be taller than them forever, so as women have got taller themselves the height a man 'needs' to be has increased. The 6 foot thing (round here it's 6' 2"!) Is the women's equivalent of 'curvy/size 8/ hourglass' just something generally understood to denote a desirable physical type.

User1789 · 09/01/2024 19:59

5128gap · 09/01/2024 19:53

Women have typically wanted men to be taller than them forever, so as women have got taller themselves the height a man 'needs' to be has increased. The 6 foot thing (round here it's 6' 2"!) Is the women's equivalent of 'curvy/size 8/ hourglass' just something generally understood to denote a desirable physical type.

It is the measuring tape nature of it that is new.

It is one thing wanting somebody who is 'curvy' or 'tall'.

It is entirely another to refuse to date somebody under 6ft or above a size 8.

And as others here have noted, actually quite hard to judge for sure in the flesh, without a measuring tape.

5128gap · 09/01/2024 20:15

User1789 · 09/01/2024 19:59

It is the measuring tape nature of it that is new.

It is one thing wanting somebody who is 'curvy' or 'tall'.

It is entirely another to refuse to date somebody under 6ft or above a size 8.

And as others here have noted, actually quite hard to judge for sure in the flesh, without a measuring tape.

Oh I know! It's definitely a thing for both sexes though. I asked my neice what her new BF was like recently to which she replied 'Gorgeous! He's 6 foot 2!' and the young men I know will regularly use (their estimate of) a woman's dress size as part of their description of her. I'm not sure where it comes from either. But possibly the same place as 'six figures' instead of 'a good job'.

WeCanLeaveTheChristmasLightsUp · 09/01/2024 20:16

The 6ft thing is something I only see online, like ratings and rankings - see also people talking about 'the top 1%' or referring to others as a number out of 10. In my life, thankfully, no one talks like that or would ever classify anyone else like that. It's so dehumanising - and another identifying incel/misogynist trait. A major red flag!

SpicyMoth · 09/01/2024 20:56

I have a hunch OP isn't going to be returning, but I do hope they're able to self reflect a wee bit -

It's a bit similar imo to when your male friend complains that all his exes are crazy.
One crazy ex? My sympathies. Two? That's unfortunate. Three? I'm sensing a pattern. Four? You don't think your own actions may be having an impact?
ALL of them? It's you hun.

At a certain point you have to explain to them that they need to realise and accept that the only constant in these "crazy" relationships is them - And that's not to say it's the individual's fault alone, but it IS a two way street, and putting all the blame on everyone/everything else but yourself is just not how you're going to get anywhere in life.

Hell, even if it's just accepting that you're attracted to people who aren't "good" for you and making an effort to not keep repeating that mistake, that's an amazing first step at least!

User1789 · 09/01/2024 20:59

@5128gap yes, I joke that when I met my DH 15 years ago/pre-app he was 'tall', but he is now '6'1'', in the modern parlance.

@WeCanLeaveTheChristmasLightsUp I have heard it in RL. In fact I had quite a blazing row with one friend years ago, who wouldn't entertain putting her app settings to including men under 6' as she 'wouldn't find them attractive' (she is 5'4'' fwiw). She is now married to a woman, and I am, of course, thrilled for them both.

But... turns out it wasn't the men's height that was the problem after all... Go figure.

ItchyMaryHavingAFag · 10/01/2024 11:13

Hahaha! This thread is hilarious. The initial post just screams about everything wrong with the OP and why she can’t find commitment but she’s completely oblivious.

I mean, whatever. I’ll stick with my short, very masculine, sexy partner. 🤷🏻‍♀️

DontGetMeStartedOnThat · 10/01/2024 11:40

Ayse1 · 08/01/2024 18:04

Can you imagine the reaction if a bloke wrote an equivalent article about women ?

Exactly. What a long (far, far too long), generalised, sexist view

Oldandcobwebby · 10/01/2024 16:30

Aren't you the bitter one? I don't think you are really the catch that you clearly believe you are. I can see why half-way decent men would run a mile from you, to be honest.

IhateHPSDeaneCnt · 12/01/2024 08:46

An absolute reverse - get back in your man cave.

SpringleDingle · 12/01/2024 09:24

This is a weird mix of misogyny and basic standards!

"It isn’t unusual for a woman to have botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job and all the rest – infact, that’s pretty normal for a modern woman in 2023." This is not at all normal in my circles. I work with highly paid, professional, well educated women in their 30 - 50s. Not one of us is done up like this. We are all very natural (but rather nice looking if you ask me!)

"I personally have took a stance and have stopped having sex with men that haven’t put the bare minimum amount of effort in, to be frank. By bare minimum, I mean he returns my texts, picks me up, takes me out for a few dinners and is nice to me." Well I don't expect anyone to pay for my dinner, I pay my way but apart from that this is just normal standards isn't it? I don't want to have sex with anyone if I haven't built up a bit of connection with them. I've never had sex with guys willy nilly expecting long term relationships.... does anyone?

" I know dating sites aren’t working for me, as Im much more likely to fancy someone when I can see the ‘fuller picture’ ie their voice, humour, intelligence, wittiness, their mannerisms etc etc. " This is why you lower your initial visual attractiveness criteria and make the effort to connect and meet up with many men. This gives you the option to see that fuller picture. OLD is a numbers game, you need to meet a lot of guys to find a small number you are compatible enough with to have a second date / third date and from those you only get one serious relationship. Pre-boyf I was dating every Friday night (kid free night) with a different first date. My EOW Saturdays were saved for the odd second or third date. It took a bit of work but I found a good 'un in the end!

InAMess2023 · 12/01/2024 09:47

@SpringleDingle I'm a highly paid, professional, well-educated women in my 30s... I also have "botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job" - minus the hair extensions at least. The two aren't mutually exclusive. (I also feel I look pretty natural actually as most people can't tell I've had anything done)

Valeriekat · 19/01/2024 09:41

pikkumyy77 · 08/01/2024 18:11

Congratulations you reinvented Lysistrata, but without the goal of world peace.

Brilliant!

ReginaPhalange1989 · 19/01/2024 12:55

WTF have I just read?!!

Here's me thinking you were going to write a post about how men are raised in modern society, in a particular way that doesn't allow them to gain emotional intelligence, independence and sets them up for a life of entitlement / un-satisfaction.

Or even about how in society we literally have broken people raising broken people. (by this I mean parents who are lacking in self awareness, and emotional intelligence to even begin to teach their children about the importance of emotional intelligence, regulation, empathy, compassion etc) Mothers raising boys to not do chores, or help around the house. Fathers treating their wives like laundry maids, care givers... and so the cycle continues from generation to generation.

You generalisations about feminism are alarming TBH, the way you speak as if you are speaking on behalf of all women is worrying, and your views on equality are archaic!

Also the whole feminine / masculine energy stuff is utter bullshit - Yes naturally men and women differ in strength, emotions, needs etc, and women are more naturally nurturing, but what you're writing here is toxic masculinity... Men who feel the weight of toxic masculinity may struggle to conform to societal expectations. This pressure to display dominance, aggression, and physical prowess can lead to internal conflicts, as individuals may not resonate with these traits.

Don't even get me started on how you use sex as a weapon, or as some form of reward system.

The other thing I find funny is how you contradict yourself entirely by listing all the things you don't like about men / things you don't find attractive - your post reads so unbelievably shallow, I totally understand why your single if one of your deal breakers is height! Most of the things you mentioned are physical attributes, which is exactly what you're complaining about in women (hair, nails etc)

Just some advice that my granny used to say to me - if you find yourself thinking everyone you meet is an arsehole, then you are probably the arsehole.

MrsFrewTBun · 19/01/2024 17:34

Widowers - that is the answer lol.

Username49 · 19/01/2024 17:36

(Male here) first of all men dont give a shit if you have a masters degree or own a buisness or own a nice house, women might care about that in men but us men honestly give zero shits about that. A woman who went to uni means that shes more likely to have slept around or in student debt.

Im probaly what a lot of you women want (im 6ft tall, athletic and take very good care of my appearance, dont do drugs, dont watch porn, make more than double the minimum wage as an engineer etc) but lucky for me I found myself a lovely girl who was a virgin when I met her (so was I), excellent bake/cook, doesnt do drugs, hard working and very beautiful looking. We moved into our lovely 4 bedroom home a few months ago and we are going to start trying for a baby, im 27 while she is 25 so we are both young.

But before meeting her I've rejected girls after finding out things like they slept with one of my friends. I bet lots of you women on mumsnet have slept around but yet think you can get yourself a good man lol.

You women keep thinking that body count doesnt matter but it does, you keep thinking we give a fuck about your degree and men your age (in thier 30s) who are goodlooking with thier life together want a younger woman with less baggage (the truth hurts)

So you can either lower your standards and date a man who might make less than you, might not be that tall, might be bald etc or go date women considering a lot of you women are bisexual these days (or just stay single and be a cat lady for the rest of your life)

InAMess2023 · 19/01/2024 17:38

@Username49 no. You're a million percent not what most people are looking for with that disgusting judgemental attitude 🤮

SouthLondonMum22 · 19/01/2024 17:42

Username49 · 19/01/2024 17:36

(Male here) first of all men dont give a shit if you have a masters degree or own a buisness or own a nice house, women might care about that in men but us men honestly give zero shits about that. A woman who went to uni means that shes more likely to have slept around or in student debt.

Im probaly what a lot of you women want (im 6ft tall, athletic and take very good care of my appearance, dont do drugs, dont watch porn, make more than double the minimum wage as an engineer etc) but lucky for me I found myself a lovely girl who was a virgin when I met her (so was I), excellent bake/cook, doesnt do drugs, hard working and very beautiful looking. We moved into our lovely 4 bedroom home a few months ago and we are going to start trying for a baby, im 27 while she is 25 so we are both young.

But before meeting her I've rejected girls after finding out things like they slept with one of my friends. I bet lots of you women on mumsnet have slept around but yet think you can get yourself a good man lol.

You women keep thinking that body count doesnt matter but it does, you keep thinking we give a fuck about your degree and men your age (in thier 30s) who are goodlooking with thier life together want a younger woman with less baggage (the truth hurts)

So you can either lower your standards and date a man who might make less than you, might not be that tall, might be bald etc or go date women considering a lot of you women are bisexual these days (or just stay single and be a cat lady for the rest of your life)

No. You most definitely aren't what 'us women' want.

Username49 · 19/01/2024 17:42

@InAMess2023 no im just telling a lot of you women the truth. If I was single I wouldnt date any of you women or your daughters (cause your probaly telling them its ok to sleep around also)

So you women in your 30s who chased a career, slept around etc but are no desperate for love and to have a baby can stay single (or lower your standards)

Oh but you wont cause you'll still want a man who makes more, who is a foot taller, who is funny and interesting while your boring etc

gwenneh · 19/01/2024 17:47

Username49 · 19/01/2024 17:42

@InAMess2023 no im just telling a lot of you women the truth. If I was single I wouldnt date any of you women or your daughters (cause your probaly telling them its ok to sleep around also)

So you women in your 30s who chased a career, slept around etc but are no desperate for love and to have a baby can stay single (or lower your standards)

Oh but you wont cause you'll still want a man who makes more, who is a foot taller, who is funny and interesting while your boring etc

It really does irk you that most women do go out, have fun, sleep around, and end up perfectly happy in married & stable relationships.

Trust me, missing out on men like you isn't the punishment you think it is.

InAMess2023 · 19/01/2024 17:48

@Username49 again, no. Because I don't want a misogynist. I earn my own money, have my own life that I made for myself. The one thing I'd be teaching my daughters (if I were to have kids which I won't be) to stay away from 'men' like you 🤮

Username49 · 19/01/2024 17:48

Well im very happy with my lovely GF who we both lost our virginities to (cause we both dont believe in sleeping around) and I make sure to treat her like a queen. I make enough money to be a provider while she is pregnant with my child so she wont need to worry about money. I dont watch porn or desire any other woman apart from her, I dont do drugs, I work hard and all I've wanted was to be a family man.

Ascubudr · 19/01/2024 17:48

Username49 · 19/01/2024 17:36

(Male here) first of all men dont give a shit if you have a masters degree or own a buisness or own a nice house, women might care about that in men but us men honestly give zero shits about that. A woman who went to uni means that shes more likely to have slept around or in student debt.

Im probaly what a lot of you women want (im 6ft tall, athletic and take very good care of my appearance, dont do drugs, dont watch porn, make more than double the minimum wage as an engineer etc) but lucky for me I found myself a lovely girl who was a virgin when I met her (so was I), excellent bake/cook, doesnt do drugs, hard working and very beautiful looking. We moved into our lovely 4 bedroom home a few months ago and we are going to start trying for a baby, im 27 while she is 25 so we are both young.

But before meeting her I've rejected girls after finding out things like they slept with one of my friends. I bet lots of you women on mumsnet have slept around but yet think you can get yourself a good man lol.

You women keep thinking that body count doesnt matter but it does, you keep thinking we give a fuck about your degree and men your age (in thier 30s) who are goodlooking with thier life together want a younger woman with less baggage (the truth hurts)

So you can either lower your standards and date a man who might make less than you, might not be that tall, might be bald etc or go date women considering a lot of you women are bisexual these days (or just stay single and be a cat lady for the rest of your life)

Oh wow a man has spoken. He knows what we really want a 27 year old virgin no thanks

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