Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Here is what is wrong with men in 2023 and what we can do about it

434 replies

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 17:52

Hi all. Ive come to a realisation lately that has almost brought me close to tears because I have to accept that Im probably going to be single for the rest of my life. Grab a cuppa because this is probably going to be long.

For context, I am a single 33 year old female with my own business, own house, no kids, independent, no baggage, relatively attractive (without blowing my own trumpet) and look young enough than my actual age, have a masters degree, love travelling, open minded, funny (I like to think so), clever, lots of friends, love socialising (out most weekends), and I have some depth to me and actually give a shit about things in life that a lot of people disregard, like animal welfare, homelessness etc. In a nutshell, I’m decent.

Here is the boat I find myself in…
I’ve had 3 proper relationships in my life, all no longer than 12 months, 2 of them verbally abusive and cheaters. Ive got a thick skin now and try not to take any shit and I’m aware of potential red flags that may pop up. Ive been on my own for over 5 years now, with little flings here and there. I’ve tried online dating, but the thing is, I only swipe for the ones conventionally ‘good looking’. By good looking I mean - nice smile and teeth, reasonably attractive, over 6ft (sorry – this is a dealbreaker for me but open minded to many other things), decent job, decent human being. I don’t care if theyre divorced or already have kids, I’m just fundamentally looking for the bare minimum – to fancy them, initially. I’ve had sexless relationships in the past and its not fun for either party – fancying someone is a must.

Whenever I fancy men in real life, I imagine if they were on a dating site and I ask myself if I’d have swiped for them based just on their pictures and the answer is no, I probably wouldn’t, unless of course they are the ‘conventionally good looking’ type that have had the balls to come over to me on a night out (rarely happens these days, and if it does, they turn out to be a narcissist – hence the macho confidence and charisma). So I know dating sites aren’t working for me, as Im much more likely to fancy someone when I can see the ‘fuller picture’ ie their voice, humour, intelligence, wittiness, their mannerisms etc etc. My theory is that most of the men that are conventionally ‘good looking’ and get the most swipes, are probably lacking in all the areas Ive listed above that are attractive traits, and are more than likely players as they have the pick of the bunch (we are ALL swiping for the good looking ones – and they fucking know it!).
You might ask why I haven’t settled down with the men ive met organically then above, the ‘normal’ ones that have traits I like. Here is where my problem really is – they have clocked on that they are a fucking rarity.

Have you been on a night out recently and looked around? There are about 15 attractive women to every ‘good looking’ man. I believe this is because women naturally take more pride in their appearance than men do, and now that we earn our own money, we splash it on treatments and tweakments. It isn’t unusual for a woman to have botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job and all the rest – infact, that’s pretty normal for a modern woman in 2023.
Equally, what are men having done? Well, theres the ones who give a shit about their appearance so they might go to the gym 4 times a week (no im not talking about sted heads - yuck), they may splash out in designer gear head to toe (cringe), or the ones with a little bit of class may shop at Reiss instead (better), but you get my jist. They might visit the barber once a week too for a fresh trim. And the rest of them? Nada. No gym, possibly a standard receding haircut or balding (that theyre not bothered about), maybe they haven’t gone shopping for years. But what do both of these types of men both have in common? They both think they are entitled to stunning women.

As ive explained, the ratio of attractive women to attractive men is off the scale. If you haven’t noticed it before, you will now, especially 40 year olds and under. 50 years ago, you were either pretty or you weren’t. You were either an alpha male at 6 ft 2, or you weren’t, and that was ok. You would simply marry up (literally) with someone who was in the same league as you. Now, women are having to lower their bar and accept less than what they deserve, simply because theres so much competition and not enough men to go around. Ask yourself, how many kind, gorgeous, successful, funny, clever, good yet single women do you know? I can bet it’s a lot.

Again, looking back at relationships 50 years ago and more, there was a ‘trade off’. Men needed sex (its in their DNA, they need it), and women needed protecting. Marriage made sense, both sexes were getting a good deal. Pretty much all women were virgins until they were married, and kind of understood the unwritten rule that they needed to ‘keep their man happy’. On the other hand, men kept us happy too. We didn’t need to work and split the finances, we had the luxury of staying at home, cooking, cleaning and raising the kids as regardless of what anyone says, women are more nurturing, emotional, and quite frankly - do a better job of bringing up the children. This worked out fine for men - they went to work, provided for their family (which triggered their hero instinct), and got their dick sucked in return. Masculine and feminine energy intertwined perfectly, sorry feminists, but its true. And the women were happy, until they weren’t.

We then kicked off that we wanted equal rights to men, equal pay, equal jobs, the list goes on, and we got it. We are now a bunch of independent, self sufficient, home owning, driving, single mothers. We’re basically masculine. The men haven’t changed their role though, they aren’t now staying at home, cooking, cleaning and bringing up the kids, they haven’t sacrificed anything but yet they are still reaping the awards. The award – sex.

We somehow have manipulated ourselves into believing that woman need sex like men do (we don’t), and we can sleep around, use men, get our kit off and call it ‘empowering’. It was only empowering when we got the respect we deserved 50 years ago and the mortgage paid. Now, we don’t get called the next day and get pied off for a woman 10 years younger. Men don’t want commitment, period. We nag them, we remind them of their mothers, they have more fun with their friends and we’re a headache to them. The only benefit they have from having a woman in their lives is sex. Period. And we have continued to spoil them with it, with minimal effort from them. We’re lucky if they buy us a plate of food before we do the honour. But we naturally want more, we are wired differently to men, and this is why they USED to meet us in the middle.

But here’s the thing, when we demand more (commitment), the men back off - have you noticed? We get ghosted when we want something in return. Do not let other women fool you into thinking both sexes are getting a good deal by having intercourse, we aren’t. Men inherently need sex, they think about sex thousands of times per day, they even pay for it, and women enjoy it…sometimes, but we don’t inherently need it.
So why on earth are we still having sex freely with men who haven’t earned it, sometimes even with strangers, and blaming being ghosted on countless other reasons? Hes not ready for commitment, hes been hurt before, hes too busy with work, hes avoidantly attached…he’s not. He just doesn’t want to buy the cow when the milk is free.

I personally have took a stance and have stopped having sex with men that haven’t put the bare minimum amount of effort in, to be frank. By bare minimum, I mean he returns my texts, picks me up, takes me out for a few dinners and is nice to me. I’m not asking for a lot. Ive read ‘Why Men Love Bitches’ and ‘The Rules’ – but these books only work with 2 willing participants. It still doesn’t develop into the fairytale romance I had once envisioned on the first date with him, he either doesn’t feel a connection or he’s backed away at the thought of committing.

Some of you will say “not all men are like that”. This is true. Here is my other theory – the ‘other’ men who may be short, insecure, abusive, jobless, homeless, ugly or stupid may be more than willing to settle down with me – you can bet their bottom dollar they are – but I would like someone who brings something to the table, like I do. I won’t fancy a man who is wet behind the ears, who is scared of a hard days work and would be happy to sit at home raising our kids – it’s not masculine and I don’t want it. The ‘other’ men who are none of the things I’ve listed above and are genuinely fantastic men with a lot to offer, raised right and want to commit to a good woman – guess what? THEY ARE ALREADY TAKEN. They were taken in their twenties, and they stayed with that woman, because they are kind, loving, loyal men.

The dating pool for 30, 40, 50 something women now is DIER and we are left with the commitment phobes, abusers, narcissists or tons of baggage that we don’t want. The feminist movement along with plastic surgery and ‘empowering’ women has damaged us. We now all offer the same thing to men and they are spoiled for choice. I was chatting with a male friend of mine not long ago who had been seeing a woman who ticked a lot of boxes but she wanted exclusivity before she agreed to have sex. He didn’t want to be exclusive or commit in any way to any woman, so he let her go. I asked him if he was confident if he would find a good woman like her again in the future, he said yes, and I believe him. We are all competing with each other to be the thinnest, prettiest, most enhanced, smartest, richest to bag the best man, and he’s sitting back and laughing at us all climb over each other in desperation. He’s chilled as a cucumber.

My biological clock is ticking, his isn’t. The men aren’t worried, we are. The men aren’t on mumsnet starting threads about women who won’t have sex with them, because we do. But trust me, if we took this big asset away, they would. Have you noticed how many eligible bachelors you know who just decide when theyre about 45-50 that they are ‘finally ready to settle down’? And they find someone pretty much right away, usually 15 years younger, a box ticker, no kids, no baggage and very fucking fertile. He becomes a dad and gets married and everyone goes “ah at last! He finally found -the One!”. No – she isn’t the one who changed him, she was the one who was there when he realised his looks were fading and he better take what he can while he can. Meanwhile, the women he messed around with back in the day are well into their fifties, still single, possibly childless and debating whether to date someone 20 years older who may cherish them the way no man their age ever did. Do I want to date someone 20 years older than me to feel special? No thanks.

I believe if we all took a stance and stopped giving men the one thing they NEED (sex), until they give us what we NEED (love and commitment), things will change. Stop sexting and sending nudes – they used to pay Babestation for that, now we’re doing it for free! Stop allowing them to waltz in and out of your life every other weekend when he feels like it. Stop popping kids out to undeserving men who wont even put a ring on your finger. A child is the greatest gift a woman can give to a man, its priceless and its basically fucking magical. Yet, people are allowing their wombs to be invaded by men who couldn’t give 2 shits about them when it comes down to it. We then raise fatherless children who grow up with daddy issues and the cycle repeats again. We need to raise the bar and say NO collectively, or else it won’t work. The bimbo on Saturday night who goes home with him after one drink (bare minimum) will undo all our hard work.
If the feminist movement hadn’t have happened, I don’t believe relationships would be as dire as they are right now. Its great that we earn the same as men and have our independence, but look at the price we have paid. They haven’t paid any price, nothing has changed for them, infact it only got EASIER. They still get sex and kids, but no bills or commitment – bingo! We have normalised this behaviour and it’s time to put an end to it.

I can turn down a man for sex tomorrow, but he’s not bothered because he always knows this… theres another desperate girl hoping that if she fucks like a pornstar Friday night she will bag him. She won’t. And he will move on to the next. Women look for love, men only fall in love by accident – by spending quality time with a woman. But they can’t fall in love if we give it up too easy when his foot is already out the door.

As you can tell I've given this a lot of thought and I'm disappointed with where I find myself at my age, and where I think the world is heading. Does anyone else feel the same way?

OP posts:
ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees · 08/01/2024 18:16

If you are going to rule out men on the basis of something as trival as height, you can't give out about men who reject you.

How many potential possible matches have you ruled out just because they were 5'11 or less?

Sam87uuk · 08/01/2024 18:16

I'm a 36yo fella and I gave up on dating sites/apps years ago..

Women are incredibly picky online.

I get 0 likes or matches because I have a shaved/ buzzcut hair style.

I have a handsome face and I'm tall.. I get obvious flirting and interest in real life . I've also been called handsome.. good looking etc all of my life.

Online I'm basically a non-entity.

Nobody is to blame for this state of affairs, it's just mathematics, human psychology and female instincts in play here.

Dating apps are 90% men.

Men just want to spread it around whereas women have more to lose when it comes to getting pregnant with "crap genetics".

Ihopeithinkiknow · 08/01/2024 18:17

Sounds like you are in the same boat as my 30 year old sister lol I’m 42 so missed out on being a teen with social media and thank fuck for that!! Of course the initial attraction is important but looks fade and it just seems like my sisters expectations are off the charts when it comes to men lol I’m glad she has got standards and won’t accept any shit but she was chatting to a guy who wasn’t her usual type and he was clever and funny and seemed like a nice bloke tbh but unfortunately didn’t fit her aesthetic so he got binned off. I love my sister dearly but fucking hell she comes across as incredibly shallow sometimes. I don’t think it’s just a “men” problem I think people have just forgotten what really matters to be happy and whether or not people on social media think they look happy urgh it’s bloody exhausting and I’m glad I dodged all that and am happy with someone who I genuinely love for who they are and not what they look like. Ok I have officially turned into one of those “back in my day” people lol

FromageFromMars · 08/01/2024 18:17

The proportion of ‘good men’ has not changed, it’s just that women didn’t have much choice back then. You say you could get a crap man to settle down with you, well then you have the same options open to you as our foremothers.

AliciaTried · 08/01/2024 18:18

Alright Andrew Tate. Calm down.

BintuBombatu · 08/01/2024 18:20

I don’t think you’re as attractive a prospect as you think you are, OP.

You seem very self-centered, and boring.

It’s quite something that you would think that’s there’s a general problem with men based on the fact that you can’t land one to your exacting specifications.

Frostytwiglet · 08/01/2024 18:21

Odd post, sounds like a lot of reframed incel ideology rather than something a woman would write to me.

Jackiebrambles · 08/01/2024 18:21

MadamVastra · 08/01/2024 17:59

I'd have a cup of tea and start swiping on men under 6 foot

First one nailed it 🤣

LunaBlueSkies · 08/01/2024 18:21

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Carouselfish · 08/01/2024 18:22

I remember being in my 20s and putting that much energy and thought and time into finding a man.
Advice I would give myself back then:

  1. Divert all your time and energy into you. Finding a career you love, good friends, a house or apartment you love, travel, read good books to improve your general.knowledge and expand your world. See a man as a nice extra if one comes along rather than the goal.
  2. Go to America, work there if possible. You'll find a higher number of attractive men there who want a committed relationship. Or if tall is your thing, try the Netherlands, although British women don't have much cachet there.
YaWeeFurryBastard · 08/01/2024 18:22

Being short is not a negative personality trait 😂. My husband is short (still taller than me) and he’s a wonderful, handsome, successful man who treats me as both a queen and an equal and gives me a fabulous life. He meets all your criteria including going to the gym four times a week and is a lovely, kind and caring person to boot. I’m not perfect but he loves me as I am and I really believe we’ll go the distance.

I used to be like you OP and only want over 6ft, but believe you me I thank my lucky stars every single day I gave him a chance. We are very in love, had a beautiful wedding and are about to try and start a family.

Worth a thought as you sound quite bitter to be honest and that will certainly be perceived as a negative personality trait.

loadedchips · 08/01/2024 18:22

Perhaps your sending out desperate vibes when you see men out. If it appears your looking to get your claws in long term men aren't that interested. Go out and have fun not with the intention of finding a soulmate. Also swipe for those who you wouldn't usually go for. If you like men with dark hair and dark eyes and 6ft plus's with muscles try something different just to see what else is out there

ithinkicanithinkican · 08/01/2024 18:22

AliciaTried · 08/01/2024 18:18

Alright Andrew Tate. Calm down.

😂

TinkerTiger · 08/01/2024 18:24

Unless you're 6ft (like myself) then I really don't get the obsession with a man having to be that at a minimum. I'd like to be similar in height to my partner, but 5'10 would be fine as well.

Totally missing the point, but just don't get it.

lifelongwhatever · 08/01/2024 18:24

It isn’t unusual for a woman to have botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job and all the rest – infact, that’s pretty normal for a modern woman in 2023

Your definition of what makes someone attractive is way off the mark.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 08/01/2024 18:24

"It isn’t unusual for a woman to have botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job and all the rest – infact, that’s pretty normal for a modern woman in 2023."

Maybe in your circles. I don't know anyone who has any of that, aside from the nails and clothes. What happened to looking like a real human woman?

User135644 · 08/01/2024 18:25

About 90% of men are under 6 foot so that narrows your field massively.

Disturbia81 · 08/01/2024 18:25

Just don't correlate with the men I've known intimately and ones I've known family wise, friends etc. Very loving hands on dads.
The men I've been with have all been far more soppy and loving than me. Not sex obsessed.

RaininSummer · 08/01/2024 18:26

It definitely isn't normal for women, even young ones, to have all those cosmetic interventions. I also think you need to stop being so shallow and focussing so much on looks

User1775 · 08/01/2024 18:27

Hmmm I think dating apps are fucking awful and provoke poor behaviour but are you aware that the main filter for ALL WOMEN (meaning the most frequent filter used by women of all ages/income etc as a class) on apps is height? For ALL MEN on apps is age. So you are too old to hit their filter and everyone you filter for is also being contacted by a LOT more women. I'd get off the apps and get yourself interested in farming/rugby/scuba diving or similar if you want a tall, kind decent man.

MrsSchrute · 08/01/2024 18:27

Wow. That is offensive to men and women!

User1775 · 08/01/2024 18:29

I will add that I took DH who is 6'6" off the market when he was 18, and a very tiny 5'1" I have had tall women verbally abuse me for taking a tall man out of their pool 😂Take some advice from Sophie Dahl and find a real man, of any height.

Malarandras · 08/01/2024 18:29

I do not feel the same way no.

I stopped reading after about the third paragraph though. I’m only reading that much non-fiction if it is written by someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

MonsteraMama · 08/01/2024 18:29

What a load of absolute wank.

All the gorgeous, funny, successful, intelligent, confident, kind women I know are in happy relationships or marriages, single by choice and happy, or single through circumstance and either making the most of it or enjoying dipping their toes in the dating world. None of them are writing essays on how horrible it is to be so beautiful and wonderful and so unappreciated for it.

Maybe you're not as much of a catch as you think you are, and just like those men with receding hairlines who apparently think they're entitled to a gorgeous woman, you're a mid woman who thinks she's entitled to a gorgeous man who is perfect in every way? Using your own logic, or course. Perhaps you should give one of those receding hairlines a go and see how you get on? Or are only women allowed high standards?

AllAroundMyCat · 08/01/2024 18:29

pikkumyy77 · 08/01/2024 18:11

Congratulations you reinvented Lysistrata, but without the goal of world peace.

(Sniggering!)

Swipe left for the next trending thread