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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Here is what is wrong with men in 2023 and what we can do about it

434 replies

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 17:52

Hi all. Ive come to a realisation lately that has almost brought me close to tears because I have to accept that Im probably going to be single for the rest of my life. Grab a cuppa because this is probably going to be long.

For context, I am a single 33 year old female with my own business, own house, no kids, independent, no baggage, relatively attractive (without blowing my own trumpet) and look young enough than my actual age, have a masters degree, love travelling, open minded, funny (I like to think so), clever, lots of friends, love socialising (out most weekends), and I have some depth to me and actually give a shit about things in life that a lot of people disregard, like animal welfare, homelessness etc. In a nutshell, I’m decent.

Here is the boat I find myself in…
I’ve had 3 proper relationships in my life, all no longer than 12 months, 2 of them verbally abusive and cheaters. Ive got a thick skin now and try not to take any shit and I’m aware of potential red flags that may pop up. Ive been on my own for over 5 years now, with little flings here and there. I’ve tried online dating, but the thing is, I only swipe for the ones conventionally ‘good looking’. By good looking I mean - nice smile and teeth, reasonably attractive, over 6ft (sorry – this is a dealbreaker for me but open minded to many other things), decent job, decent human being. I don’t care if theyre divorced or already have kids, I’m just fundamentally looking for the bare minimum – to fancy them, initially. I’ve had sexless relationships in the past and its not fun for either party – fancying someone is a must.

Whenever I fancy men in real life, I imagine if they were on a dating site and I ask myself if I’d have swiped for them based just on their pictures and the answer is no, I probably wouldn’t, unless of course they are the ‘conventionally good looking’ type that have had the balls to come over to me on a night out (rarely happens these days, and if it does, they turn out to be a narcissist – hence the macho confidence and charisma). So I know dating sites aren’t working for me, as Im much more likely to fancy someone when I can see the ‘fuller picture’ ie their voice, humour, intelligence, wittiness, their mannerisms etc etc. My theory is that most of the men that are conventionally ‘good looking’ and get the most swipes, are probably lacking in all the areas Ive listed above that are attractive traits, and are more than likely players as they have the pick of the bunch (we are ALL swiping for the good looking ones – and they fucking know it!).
You might ask why I haven’t settled down with the men ive met organically then above, the ‘normal’ ones that have traits I like. Here is where my problem really is – they have clocked on that they are a fucking rarity.

Have you been on a night out recently and looked around? There are about 15 attractive women to every ‘good looking’ man. I believe this is because women naturally take more pride in their appearance than men do, and now that we earn our own money, we splash it on treatments and tweakments. It isn’t unusual for a woman to have botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job and all the rest – infact, that’s pretty normal for a modern woman in 2023.
Equally, what are men having done? Well, theres the ones who give a shit about their appearance so they might go to the gym 4 times a week (no im not talking about sted heads - yuck), they may splash out in designer gear head to toe (cringe), or the ones with a little bit of class may shop at Reiss instead (better), but you get my jist. They might visit the barber once a week too for a fresh trim. And the rest of them? Nada. No gym, possibly a standard receding haircut or balding (that theyre not bothered about), maybe they haven’t gone shopping for years. But what do both of these types of men both have in common? They both think they are entitled to stunning women.

As ive explained, the ratio of attractive women to attractive men is off the scale. If you haven’t noticed it before, you will now, especially 40 year olds and under. 50 years ago, you were either pretty or you weren’t. You were either an alpha male at 6 ft 2, or you weren’t, and that was ok. You would simply marry up (literally) with someone who was in the same league as you. Now, women are having to lower their bar and accept less than what they deserve, simply because theres so much competition and not enough men to go around. Ask yourself, how many kind, gorgeous, successful, funny, clever, good yet single women do you know? I can bet it’s a lot.

Again, looking back at relationships 50 years ago and more, there was a ‘trade off’. Men needed sex (its in their DNA, they need it), and women needed protecting. Marriage made sense, both sexes were getting a good deal. Pretty much all women were virgins until they were married, and kind of understood the unwritten rule that they needed to ‘keep their man happy’. On the other hand, men kept us happy too. We didn’t need to work and split the finances, we had the luxury of staying at home, cooking, cleaning and raising the kids as regardless of what anyone says, women are more nurturing, emotional, and quite frankly - do a better job of bringing up the children. This worked out fine for men - they went to work, provided for their family (which triggered their hero instinct), and got their dick sucked in return. Masculine and feminine energy intertwined perfectly, sorry feminists, but its true. And the women were happy, until they weren’t.

We then kicked off that we wanted equal rights to men, equal pay, equal jobs, the list goes on, and we got it. We are now a bunch of independent, self sufficient, home owning, driving, single mothers. We’re basically masculine. The men haven’t changed their role though, they aren’t now staying at home, cooking, cleaning and bringing up the kids, they haven’t sacrificed anything but yet they are still reaping the awards. The award – sex.

We somehow have manipulated ourselves into believing that woman need sex like men do (we don’t), and we can sleep around, use men, get our kit off and call it ‘empowering’. It was only empowering when we got the respect we deserved 50 years ago and the mortgage paid. Now, we don’t get called the next day and get pied off for a woman 10 years younger. Men don’t want commitment, period. We nag them, we remind them of their mothers, they have more fun with their friends and we’re a headache to them. The only benefit they have from having a woman in their lives is sex. Period. And we have continued to spoil them with it, with minimal effort from them. We’re lucky if they buy us a plate of food before we do the honour. But we naturally want more, we are wired differently to men, and this is why they USED to meet us in the middle.

But here’s the thing, when we demand more (commitment), the men back off - have you noticed? We get ghosted when we want something in return. Do not let other women fool you into thinking both sexes are getting a good deal by having intercourse, we aren’t. Men inherently need sex, they think about sex thousands of times per day, they even pay for it, and women enjoy it…sometimes, but we don’t inherently need it.
So why on earth are we still having sex freely with men who haven’t earned it, sometimes even with strangers, and blaming being ghosted on countless other reasons? Hes not ready for commitment, hes been hurt before, hes too busy with work, hes avoidantly attached…he’s not. He just doesn’t want to buy the cow when the milk is free.

I personally have took a stance and have stopped having sex with men that haven’t put the bare minimum amount of effort in, to be frank. By bare minimum, I mean he returns my texts, picks me up, takes me out for a few dinners and is nice to me. I’m not asking for a lot. Ive read ‘Why Men Love Bitches’ and ‘The Rules’ – but these books only work with 2 willing participants. It still doesn’t develop into the fairytale romance I had once envisioned on the first date with him, he either doesn’t feel a connection or he’s backed away at the thought of committing.

Some of you will say “not all men are like that”. This is true. Here is my other theory – the ‘other’ men who may be short, insecure, abusive, jobless, homeless, ugly or stupid may be more than willing to settle down with me – you can bet their bottom dollar they are – but I would like someone who brings something to the table, like I do. I won’t fancy a man who is wet behind the ears, who is scared of a hard days work and would be happy to sit at home raising our kids – it’s not masculine and I don’t want it. The ‘other’ men who are none of the things I’ve listed above and are genuinely fantastic men with a lot to offer, raised right and want to commit to a good woman – guess what? THEY ARE ALREADY TAKEN. They were taken in their twenties, and they stayed with that woman, because they are kind, loving, loyal men.

The dating pool for 30, 40, 50 something women now is DIER and we are left with the commitment phobes, abusers, narcissists or tons of baggage that we don’t want. The feminist movement along with plastic surgery and ‘empowering’ women has damaged us. We now all offer the same thing to men and they are spoiled for choice. I was chatting with a male friend of mine not long ago who had been seeing a woman who ticked a lot of boxes but she wanted exclusivity before she agreed to have sex. He didn’t want to be exclusive or commit in any way to any woman, so he let her go. I asked him if he was confident if he would find a good woman like her again in the future, he said yes, and I believe him. We are all competing with each other to be the thinnest, prettiest, most enhanced, smartest, richest to bag the best man, and he’s sitting back and laughing at us all climb over each other in desperation. He’s chilled as a cucumber.

My biological clock is ticking, his isn’t. The men aren’t worried, we are. The men aren’t on mumsnet starting threads about women who won’t have sex with them, because we do. But trust me, if we took this big asset away, they would. Have you noticed how many eligible bachelors you know who just decide when theyre about 45-50 that they are ‘finally ready to settle down’? And they find someone pretty much right away, usually 15 years younger, a box ticker, no kids, no baggage and very fucking fertile. He becomes a dad and gets married and everyone goes “ah at last! He finally found -the One!”. No – she isn’t the one who changed him, she was the one who was there when he realised his looks were fading and he better take what he can while he can. Meanwhile, the women he messed around with back in the day are well into their fifties, still single, possibly childless and debating whether to date someone 20 years older who may cherish them the way no man their age ever did. Do I want to date someone 20 years older than me to feel special? No thanks.

I believe if we all took a stance and stopped giving men the one thing they NEED (sex), until they give us what we NEED (love and commitment), things will change. Stop sexting and sending nudes – they used to pay Babestation for that, now we’re doing it for free! Stop allowing them to waltz in and out of your life every other weekend when he feels like it. Stop popping kids out to undeserving men who wont even put a ring on your finger. A child is the greatest gift a woman can give to a man, its priceless and its basically fucking magical. Yet, people are allowing their wombs to be invaded by men who couldn’t give 2 shits about them when it comes down to it. We then raise fatherless children who grow up with daddy issues and the cycle repeats again. We need to raise the bar and say NO collectively, or else it won’t work. The bimbo on Saturday night who goes home with him after one drink (bare minimum) will undo all our hard work.
If the feminist movement hadn’t have happened, I don’t believe relationships would be as dire as they are right now. Its great that we earn the same as men and have our independence, but look at the price we have paid. They haven’t paid any price, nothing has changed for them, infact it only got EASIER. They still get sex and kids, but no bills or commitment – bingo! We have normalised this behaviour and it’s time to put an end to it.

I can turn down a man for sex tomorrow, but he’s not bothered because he always knows this… theres another desperate girl hoping that if she fucks like a pornstar Friday night she will bag him. She won’t. And he will move on to the next. Women look for love, men only fall in love by accident – by spending quality time with a woman. But they can’t fall in love if we give it up too easy when his foot is already out the door.

As you can tell I've given this a lot of thought and I'm disappointed with where I find myself at my age, and where I think the world is heading. Does anyone else feel the same way?

OP posts:
InAMess2023 · 19/01/2024 17:50

@Username49 you sound like my idea of hell 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 none of that is the flex that you think it is. Go and take your outdated misogyny elsewhere... or on second thoughts... don't, I can't wait for the roasting you're about to get on here 🍿

Username49 · 19/01/2024 17:51

@Ascubudr ok well why dont you women just all date each other considering most of you are bisexual?

TheCadoganArms · 19/01/2024 17:51

Username49 · 19/01/2024 17:36

(Male here) first of all men dont give a shit if you have a masters degree or own a buisness or own a nice house, women might care about that in men but us men honestly give zero shits about that. A woman who went to uni means that shes more likely to have slept around or in student debt.

Im probaly what a lot of you women want (im 6ft tall, athletic and take very good care of my appearance, dont do drugs, dont watch porn, make more than double the minimum wage as an engineer etc) but lucky for me I found myself a lovely girl who was a virgin when I met her (so was I), excellent bake/cook, doesnt do drugs, hard working and very beautiful looking. We moved into our lovely 4 bedroom home a few months ago and we are going to start trying for a baby, im 27 while she is 25 so we are both young.

But before meeting her I've rejected girls after finding out things like they slept with one of my friends. I bet lots of you women on mumsnet have slept around but yet think you can get yourself a good man lol.

You women keep thinking that body count doesnt matter but it does, you keep thinking we give a fuck about your degree and men your age (in thier 30s) who are goodlooking with thier life together want a younger woman with less baggage (the truth hurts)

So you can either lower your standards and date a man who might make less than you, might not be that tall, might be bald etc or go date women considering a lot of you women are bisexual these days (or just stay single and be a cat lady for the rest of your life)

The lack of self awareness is strong in this one.

SouthLondonMum22 · 19/01/2024 17:55

Username49 · 19/01/2024 17:48

Well im very happy with my lovely GF who we both lost our virginities to (cause we both dont believe in sleeping around) and I make sure to treat her like a queen. I make enough money to be a provider while she is pregnant with my child so she wont need to worry about money. I dont watch porn or desire any other woman apart from her, I dont do drugs, I work hard and all I've wanted was to be a family man.

Yet it is absolutely not what all women want, not even close.

I earn my own money and don't want or need a man to 'provide' for me
I enjoyed plenty of casual sex before I got with my now husband and wouldn't want to be with someone who was inexperienced
I certainly wouldn't want to be with someone who shames women for daring to enjoy sex
Or isn't respectful to women

You'd be pretty much the opposite of what I would want. No matter how tall and athletic you may be.

InAMess2023 · 19/01/2024 17:57

@Username49 I've always considered myself to be 100% heterosexual but I'd rather date any woman on the planet than you...

PersephonePomegranate23 · 19/01/2024 18:05

Bloody hell, it was intense just reading that!

You're well within your rights to filter people out for whatever reason you like, but you have to know that filtering people based on looks is both limiting and could potentially mean filtering out someone who is well matched with you personality-wise.

You come across as very opinionated (news flash some women DO want and need sex, just like men) and judgemental - that's not me judging you, nor do I think you should hide your opinions or 'tone yourself down' for a man as in years gone by, but again you must realise that having such strong opinions limits the number of people you'll click with.

Finally, you're 33! You don't have to return yourself to perpetual singledom, there is someone out there who will be right for you, but it can take time.

Lovethatforyouhun · 19/01/2024 18:07

Is this a wind up?
Either whether real or an incel I’m not surprised you’re single. Delulu

DRS1970 · 19/01/2024 18:07

I can see why you are single.

Username49 · 19/01/2024 19:09

@PersephonePomegranate23 shes 33 and has probaly slept around. men her age who are tall, goodlooking, make good money etc would want a younger woman with a low/no body count.

No man gives a fuck if she went to uni or makes good money, women might look for that in men but us men dont. Us men also dont look for girls who have slept around although women seem.turned off by men with less/no sexual experience.

Its like men and women look for different things lol

SouthLondonMum22 · 19/01/2024 19:12

Username49 · 19/01/2024 19:09

@PersephonePomegranate23 shes 33 and has probaly slept around. men her age who are tall, goodlooking, make good money etc would want a younger woman with a low/no body count.

No man gives a fuck if she went to uni or makes good money, women might look for that in men but us men dont. Us men also dont look for girls who have slept around although women seem.turned off by men with less/no sexual experience.

Its like men and women look for different things lol

Why do you think all men are like you? Thankfully, they aren't.

PersephonePomegranate23 · 19/01/2024 19:13

No man gives a fuck if she went to uni or makes good money, women might look for that in men but us men dont. Us men also dont look for girls who have slept around although women seem.turned off by men with less/no sexual experience.

Really? Just because you aim for women with little education and are so inexperienced they have no barometer of what a good relationship looks like, doesn't mean that's the same for all men!

Oneofthesurvivors · 19/01/2024 19:15

Username49 · 19/01/2024 19:09

@PersephonePomegranate23 shes 33 and has probaly slept around. men her age who are tall, goodlooking, make good money etc would want a younger woman with a low/no body count.

No man gives a fuck if she went to uni or makes good money, women might look for that in men but us men dont. Us men also dont look for girls who have slept around although women seem.turned off by men with less/no sexual experience.

Its like men and women look for different things lol

My husband supported me through university but ok.

Username49 · 19/01/2024 19:21

@SouthLondonMum22 not all but most men do care about things like body count and just look at the amount of men who watch andrew tate (I think he is an idiot but he does give out some decent dating advice for men).

if I was with a girl who did have a history of sleeping around then I couldnt love her. I'll just see her as some sex toy who pops out a few babies for me.

When me and my GF first had sex it was very special for the both of us, we waited 7 months and I was more than happy to wait.

Oneofthesurvivors · 19/01/2024 19:23

if I was with a girl who did have a history of sleeping around then I couldnt love her. I'll just see her as some sex toy who pops out a few babies for me.

I'm very sorry you are a defective human being.

PersephonePomegranate23 · 19/01/2024 19:26

When me and my GF first had sex it was very special for the both of us, we waited 7 months and I was more than happy to wait.

What happens when you break up? Will you be tarnished by your body count or just your (ex) girlfriend?

SouthLondonMum22 · 19/01/2024 19:26

Username49 · 19/01/2024 19:21

@SouthLondonMum22 not all but most men do care about things like body count and just look at the amount of men who watch andrew tate (I think he is an idiot but he does give out some decent dating advice for men).

if I was with a girl who did have a history of sleeping around then I couldnt love her. I'll just see her as some sex toy who pops out a few babies for me.

When me and my GF first had sex it was very special for the both of us, we waited 7 months and I was more than happy to wait.

What makes you think that a woman with experience would be interested in you anyway? Not to mention having any children with your disgusting attitude about women.

I really hope you never have a daughter.

InAMess2023 · 19/01/2024 19:31

@Username49 the fact you think Andrew Tate gives 'decent dating advice' says it all really. No other words needed. I pity your poor girlfriend

SamW98 · 19/01/2024 19:31

Andrew Tate gives good advice 🤣🤣🤣 - and that tells us all we need to know about the deep rooted misogyny

Ascubudr · 19/01/2024 19:36

@Username49 you do know he is a convicted sex offender- decent dating advice ? Jesus wept.

Didimum · 19/01/2024 19:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Work9to5 · 19/01/2024 19:43

Yep, you've thought about it a lot. I'm not convinced that you've convinced yourself.

InAMess2023 · 19/01/2024 19:47

@Didimum he only wants a virgin so they aren't aware just how inadequate he is in the bedroom...

TheCadoganArms · 19/01/2024 19:47

Username49 · 19/01/2024 17:48

Well im very happy with my lovely GF who we both lost our virginities to (cause we both dont believe in sleeping around) and I make sure to treat her like a queen. I make enough money to be a provider while she is pregnant with my child so she wont need to worry about money. I dont watch porn or desire any other woman apart from her, I dont do drugs, I work hard and all I've wanted was to be a family man.

Jesus, you have more red flags then Chinese Communist Party rally.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 19/01/2024 20:01

@Username49 I went to uni, got a good degree in a "proper" subject, didn't sleep around, don't do drugs, don't drink, work hard, earn a decent amount, am an excellent cook, can bake, am very family oriented, considered pretty attractive.

I can guarantee you, with the attitude you have, you were VERY lucky to find your partner because the majority of us do not want a man like you. We're very happy with our not as tall, hard working, non-judgemental men who we find attractive. I, for one, would definitely have rejected you based on the horrible vibes you give off.

Bululu · 19/01/2024 20:03

Previous generations lucky again. 🤣