How am I going to get through this :( (long post sorry!)

[MyHeadIsSpinning]

I've been with DH for over 10yrs, married for 1 and have a new baby. LO was born prem and we have been going through hell but she is home now and doing well.

DH has always been indecisive and before each major milestone, getting engaged, a house, married etc he has had a panic and discussed splitting up as he doesn't think he loves me enough to get engaged, buy a house, get married etc.

However once we have talked things through and he has had his stress he always decides that he does love me and wants to be with me.

Surprisingly getting pregnant was one thing that he didn't stress about and was really happy that we were expecting. When I delilved LO early and it was touch and go for me and LO - apparently cos I was out of it but have been told by various people - DH was a bit of a mess which was understandable, ie couldn't speak for crying. However he won't talk about this and although has been supportive during the weeks LO was in hospital on SCBU I feel he could have been there for me more than he was.

Over the weekend things have come to a head. We've been having a few niggly arguements and he has said over the past few weeks that he isn't sure if he loves me enough (again) and has been thinking about us splitting up. Yesterday I made a real effort - did my hair and make up etc and tried hard to make an effort - we had agreed to do this the night before. However DH didn't notice the effort I had made and was sullen all day only speaking when I spoke to him etc. When I cracked and said that his behaviour was upsetting me and I was upset that he hadn't commented that I looked nice - he said that he hadn't noticed that I'd made an effort and didn't think I looked as though I had particularyly

We had a 'discussion' during which he told me that;

He feels it would have been easier if I had died when havign LO as this would have ade things easier for him ie wouldn't have to decided to stay with me or not - this really hurt and he knows how bad it sounded.

He doesn't feel that he loves me enough and wishes that he's 'had the balls to leave me before marrying an having a baby'

When I asked why he married me he said he thought it would be a solution to how he was feeling about being not sure about the relationship and everyone else seemed to think it was a good idea. He was NOT pressurised into marrying me or indeed even staying with me.

The arguement went on until I said that I wasn't prepared to share our baby and him be a weekend dad. That isn't why I brought her into the workd to be passed about between two homes etc. I told him that it's all or nothing he either has us both or looses us both cos I'm not beign a part time mum and our daughter needs a full time dad.

He went to walk out of the room and I asked him how he felt right then - he replied like he wants to die

I left him to cool off and then went upstairs to see him. He was sat on the bed crying. He Said that he loves our daughter and doesn't want to be a part time dad but isn't sure that he loves me enough etc. He broke down and cried so hard he was howling and holding on to me - this is not like him he cries but only a little. This was a major breakdown kind of cry.

We have decided to see how things go for a couple of months and both make a real effort to make our marriage work He has said that he would rather fall back in love with me and make it work but at the moment isn't sure that this is possible.

I just feel so empty and don't know what to think. Part of me feels so sorry for him cos I love him and he is hurting and I want to make things better but can't) I have suggested that maybe he is depressed after the birth and the general situation and he said that he doesn't think so cos he just feels the same way as he has previously.

On the other hand I'm so angry with him for what he has said and that he is taking away this precious time with my new baby cos I can't enjoy her as much as I would cos I'm worried about the future and being on my own if he does leave us.

He finds talking difficult so I'm off to buy a couple of notepads for us both to write our feeligns in about the relationship and anything else over the coming months - I feel for me it will be cathartic and help when I really want to talk and he doesn't, for him I hope that writing down his feeligns and fears will help put them into perspective and help him to work through how he feels whatever the outcome may be.

I just feel sooo sad and can't stop thinking about what he has said and also part of me thinks that maybe we shoudl just call it a day and I can move on and find someone who does love me although not sure this would work as the person I want to love me doesn't Also I really don't want to be a single parent.

I think he is not unhappy at his parents, for now. He can wait for you to crumble and is assuming he can come back when he wants to.

You can wait indefinitely which is frustrating and tortuous. He is unlikely ever to have a sea-change moment in his head but he might finally instigate proper discussions if you are able to wait long enough. If this happens, you would have some power in asking him to make changes. But he would likely renege on any promises, anyway. He thinks you are the one with the problem.

Or you can ask him what he is thinking. He may instigate a discussion soon anyway. I suspect he will still be undecided and waiting for you to try to take control again so that he has no responsibility.

Or you can give him an ultimatum (which won't work) or you can tell him you can't live in limbo and it's over and you are starting divorce proceedings. This may have interesting results but will upset you and is a risk.

Or you can ask him to come home and try harder and he probably will come home in his own time and on his terms. Nothing changed, nothing achieved. But you might feel this is the best option, all the same.

He will never be an easy, reasonable person to deal with. He loves himself.

I wish I could say something helpful.

Thanks for your comments Raggerty. It's really difficult because he does admit it is HIM with the issues and the problems. Both accept I am not perfect but it is him who has the issues that have lead to this situation. Although tbh he is being more defensive and blaming me a little - as ifs MIL.

After seeing my counsellor yesterday I have decided to carry on as I am, keeping convo to a minimum and only about DD. This way I can rebuild my life and he can have time out to think.

I'm not convinced he isn't still seeing OW -more than what he has admitted to - so atm I know I can't trust him, I know he doesn't want me enough to make an effort etc. I am worth more than that.

Feeling more positive today...for now!

Suspect the blame (from both of them) is only to be expected, as they look for excuses for his behaviour. You are not behaving as you have always behaved in the past (ie smoothed things over, made it all better) and so they are probably reacting badly to that.

You are being very strong...There may be other tactics to come (whether deliberate or subconscious) to make you cave in I suppose, but the more you carry on as you are the stronger you seem to be getting.

Thanks Katisha

So difficult but I know that however difficult it is my life has changed forever whether that is as a single parent or not remains to be seen.

However I feel stronger knowing that I have taken the first step in stopping accepting his cruel behaviour towards me. I know I can do this alone if I need to. I don't NEED to be with someone who disrespects me and treats me so cruely.

So.... he picked DD up on time and was pleasant enough. I did not get into convo with him. Brought her back a little late which I brought up, politely. No angry reaction from him and he agreed it wasn't on - as he always does but then brings her back late

Again he was pleasant enough, even brought me some sweets for my journey tomorrow - going to a friends wedding and got a 4hr drive. He tried EVERYTHING to get me into a conversation but I kept my answers to the bare minimum. I found that I really didn't want to speak to him. He only wanted to speak about mundane things but still I wasn't happy to talk properly to him. Just told DD to say bye bye and that she would see him next week.

He will miss having her on Sunday because we are away. I didn't mention having her on an alternative day but he said he might have her on Monday.... I said to let me know by Saturday either way because I have plans. I didn't ask why he might not have her and he volunteered info why.

Seems this no convo lark makes him more determined to start a convo with me and makes him volunteer info about his whereabouts. Neither of which I'm particularly bothered about at the moment.

Feeling strong again today. Hope it lasts.
Off out with friends today and have a friend staying this evening then the wedding all weekend Think us not seeing each other for just those extra few day/s will make me feel stronger too.

Damn - my car is broken so I have had to ask to use his this weekend. He has agreed and said he will fill it with fuel before dropping off tonight.

Hate having to rely on him for anything but suppose it's better than chancing my car, it breaking down and getting stuck away from home with an 8mth old.

I really didn't want to have to see him. Really wanted to put some distance between us.

It is frustrating to have to borrow his car. But it is important for you and dd to be safe and secure in a car that is reliable. So it couldn't be avoided.

I think it is healthy that you are feeling some indignation about this and about how he treats/treated you. You are becoming more objective about him.

It is so painful and I expect that part of you wishes you could never have to see him again but it's not going to happen because you will always be linked to him by your dd. But the emotional rollercoaster will level off a bit over time. Whether you end up back together or not, you and he could still end up being friends. He might make a better friend than a husband. (?)

Maybe it is good that you needed his help with the car. Maybe it will remind him that you and he are a team. Instead of you having to look after him all the time, instead of you being the only responsible one, he is able to help you out when you need it.

But you can still retain your reserve with him. He's only lending you the car, no big deal. You could have felt that you had to cancel the wedding trip (in order to avoid asking anything of him) but you're not a wimp so you have just been practical and borrowed his car. You are not afraid of him.

You are doing very well. We all think that. Ok, it has obviously been very emotional but you haven't fallen apart. All along, you've dealt with this in a practical way, done what you had to do and got the help you needed, carried on in a positive way.

Hope you have a good weekend.

Thanks Raggerty

He brought the car round filled with fuel and washed!!!

Kept convo to a minimum again.

Will post when I get back

I'm back. Had a fab time. Really enjoyed myself and didn't think about DH too much, chatted and danced my heart out. DD was, as per usual, an absolute dream and everyone loved her.

Got a little teary at the first dance but distanced myself, stopped 'thinking' and hugged DD and was soon fine - didn't actually cry.

DH txt me today on the way home asking how the wedding had been, what time I'd be home and saying her would like to see DD tomorrow (cos not seen her today). Signed off with 'xx'

I txt him back once I'd got home and knew what I was doing (ie he waited 8hrs for a reply) and said that the wedding was great and asked would he like to see DD tomorrow afternoon. He replied within 2 min saying see me then and again signed off with 'x'

Feeling confused about what he is doing/wanting. I am getting on with my life and although I would have loved to have shared yesterday with him - but only as he was before all this mess obviously - I didn't really miss him. I didn't need him to have a good time.

Not sure what I want - hate this dithering that we both seem to be doing. Would feel better if I knew where I stood with him but i am not entering into conversation with him at the moment. Unless he is ready to tell me he doesn't really know what he wants and asking won't help me.

Half of me says he is playing with my feelings and I should not rise to it in any way but then the other half says maybe this is the start of him making an effort and I should be responsive to this rather than ignoring him.

Arrgghhhhh any advice ? Feeling stronger at the moment which is helping....slightly.

Anyone?

I'm on the verge of breaking and asking him to talk when he comes around to pick up DD.

In his txt yesterday he said he would like to see DD even if only for a little while here at our house....not sure if that was him just being flexible or if he was hinting that he wants to spend time here with DD (and me?)

I know in my head that seeing and speaking to him is allowing him to have his cake and eat it but in my heart I still love him and it's so difficult to not want to 'play happy families', even though I know that this is not possible at the moment.

I just want to know what it is that he wants. Am I being a fool to hope that one day we could sort this mess out and get on with our lives together? Would he ever completely commit to me again? Is he still seeing the OW? My mind is racing with questions I want to ask him.

I know that by asking any of these questions I am weakening my position because it shows that I care/am bothered.

I suppose that what I really want is for him to TELL me what I want to know without me having to interrogate him. To be open and honest with me and tell me what I need to know.

I've tried to convince myself that he IS still seeing OW -in a relationship/sexual kind of way so therefore I shouldn't want to be with him. BUT then I think what if he is now telling the truth and he has now stopped seeing her? By not speaking to him am I allowing him to go off to the OW?

I just wish I knew what he was thinking. If the glimmer of hope that I have that we may be able to slavage a relationship from this mess is worth fighting for or if doing so is just going to continue causing me more heartache and sadness.

What should I do? Speak to him or not? We haven't spoken in two weeks other than polite one word convo's when he picks up or drops DD off. This seems to have made him more responsive towards me (except on one occassion) and he seems to have tried harder to get into conversation, txt me asking about my weekend (with kisses) and wanted to see DD more.....although I'm aware that he could be doing/saying the same and more to OW.

Arrgh feel like I'm going mad and he will be here in a coupl eof hours. I need to make a decision on how to handle him and what I am going to (not) do/say.

Ask yourself this.....Do you really want to be the option he is keeping open?? Do you really want to be the last resort, when he has tried everything else and decided it is no better or worse and he may as well be with you and dd????

Do you really want that???

Keep doing what you are doing, and stop thinking about taking him back. He has been a bastard to you and your dd, move on, get on with your own life. The fact that you are cold to him and not talking has made it a challenge to him to get you to, and perhaps made him realise that perhaps he has made a mistake, but not enough to bring him back.
Don't be his safety net, don't be his last resort. BE STRONG, have respect for yourself and keep reminding yourself that YOU DO INDEED DESERVE BETTER!!!!!!!!!

HE DOES NOT DESERVE YOU...........

MHIS - IF you want him back then there has to be some point of time when you are willing to speak to him and hear what he says. Whenever you do that you will face the risk of rejection and the only way to avoid that risk is to never progress from where you are now.

He wants things all on HIS terms. He wants to ignore you when HE feels like it, but have you begging to talk to him when HE feels like it. He doesn't like it now you have decided to ignore him, it is not on his terms, it is not his decision and he doesn't like it.

Be in control, make some things on your terms, this is something that you can have control over and have on your terms, be strong and keep it that way. Don't let him get control back, don't be the weak woman begging and desperate to talk to him.

remember what we've said before; any action of YOURS does not have the power to 'send him off' to the OW. He will do what he WANTS. If he wants you, coolness from you won't send him running to her but will bring him to you wanting you more.

i do feel for you, it must be torture. Glad you had a good time at the wedding though.

On reading your posts I do think that it's pointless pretending. You clearly love him and would have him back if he wanted. You are waiting for him to know what he wants far more than you are working out what you want I think....I think you're trying to come at it from that mindset and doing REALLY well but it's not where your true heart of hearts is IMO.

I think you won't be able to move on until you get to a definite response to him.

This is only an idea and clearly I'm not a counsellor but it strikes me that to save YOUR feelings, it might be worth saying "I need this sorted within (inset your timetable - four weeks? Two months? A year?). If you are unable to be sure and commit to me 100% then I will split up with you and we will divorce"

If it's open ended, what's to stop him going on this way for years?

After all, he's already done it for years, hasn't he...

HG - what you say is pretty much true but I am not 100% sure that I am able to get over what he has done and take him back, as much as I want to make my marriage work and be a family

I feel I am holding back from making one decision or another because he hasn't told me what he wants - ie to try again or for it to be definitely over. The only way I will know this unless he just tells me is to ask him and he has said he is unsure what he wants when I have asked. Also I feel that if I ask then I am showing him that I am still waiting on him to make my decision and thus it will be obvious that I would take him back if he did the right things.

At the moment I feel that giving him an ultimatum which would involve me saying no contact with OW which means a new job for him, would not be the way forward.

Firstly because I don't know what I want. Although I can't put my heart into the stance of no contact and no future because as you say I do still love him - God knows why. I am scared of what it would mean to try to forgive his behaviour. Scared of it happening again, of rejection and of it being the wrong decision.

Secondly I have mentioned him getting another job and he was against the idea so I feel that if I went all out and gave him an ultimatum he would immediately say no to that part and then where do I stand?

Thirdly I feel that by giving him an ultimatum or time limit I am being controlling and telling him what to do and this is one of the big issues in our relationship. Although I can see many plus points to this and I am tempted, but feel it would have the wrong affect as this is putting the ball in his court and like me admitting that I would give him another chance and then he knows it's only a matter of saying the right things before I will take him back. This way he regains control and knows I am easily persuaded.

When he picked up DD today he was 15 min early and because she wasn't ready and then needed feeding he was here for 30 min. He asked me questions about the wedding - which I answered with short answers. He asked questions about DD health and weight etc. Was generally pleasant. I could so easily slip into conversation and act as though all is okay but I find myself not looking at him when I speak. Unable to look at him or talk to him properly - I think for fear of showing him I do love him or in case I start to ask questions. I did very well though didn't ask any questions.

I just hate this whole situation and wish I could move on one way or another but as it is I feel that I am being kept hanging on.

I just don't know what to do for the best.

I think the ball IS in his court and he DOES have the power already because you are waiting on his decision before you feel able to make yours. That's why I think a deadline might help; not so you can tell him what to do. It's drawing a line in the sand about how much longer you will tolerate his indecision and lack of commitment.

I'm going to say one thing more and I know it's harsh (I shall cease puttiny my oar in after this!) but I think any man who actually loved you and wanted to be with you, would have made that clear by now. I think you need to split up with this man. Better now than when your DD is conscious of him as a day-to-day loss. Not having her mum and dad together WILL be experienced as a loss of course and it is not ideal for her in any way and I don't want to make light of the effect of it; but worse I think to bring her up in a family where the father is not committed to the mother; she needs to see a healthy relationship in order to have the same herself one day.

I think it's so worth being free to look towards a future with someone else; someone who would be able to say "You're my soul-mate. I'd be lost without you. You are gorgeous and sexy. You're such a good mum. We're such a good team. I'm so lucky to have you".

There are men out there who say this stuff - alot.

Thanks for your comments. I jknow he has done some tereible things but we did have MANY happy times over the 14yrs we were together and he wasn't always horrible.

His behaviour over the past couple of weeks has improved and he has been being better with me. This of course is leaving me confused as to where this is leading. Is he being nice because we have a daughter and it's important to be civil for her sake? Or is he being nicer because he wants to try and work things out? If only he would speak to me and tell me. I'm nt going to ask.

He arrived 15 min early today. Came into the house whilst I got DD reasy and fed her. He was polite asked about my weekend away, I was cautious and gave short answers and didn't get into full conversation.

He brought my car back and it had been cleaned inside and out (!)

He took DD and I went out. Arrived home 15 min before he was due to bring her back and as I walked in he was ringing. I answered and he said DD had fallen asleep should he wake her nad bring her home at the agreed time or wait.

I decided to go pick her up as she would want feeding after a sleep. He was again pleasant with me. I'd left a couple of things at his parents and when I got there asked for them. He was keen to get them for me and he helped me to the car with DD's bag etc and said he would see her again tomorrow - agreed day for contact.

I was pleasant to him and his parents - MIL was fine, FIL pretty much ignored me - thinkhe didn't know what to say. Glad that I was able to keep my cool and be civil as I don't want to give them any ammunition to be nasty about me.

Just going to carry on as I am at the moment. Just that I have wobbles every now and then worrying that I'm doing the wrong thing. But i think that it is for the best that we don't talk right now. If he insitgates a conversation I will listen to what he has to say but I will not be starting it myself......

Message withdrawn

My concern is that your wish NOT to force a timescale/answer from him is just playing into his hands and allows him to carry on as he's always done, not being 'sure', not knowing what he wants. I just think it puts you in an even more vulnerable situation. Giving him a deadline is not the same as telling him what to do.

I am not sure about an ultimatum, HG. I agree that I wish this could be over for MHIS. If he responded negatively, she might be out of her misery sooner. But, if the answer is negative, MHIS will probably crucify herself with regret that she gave the ultimatum and think that she has caused the end of the relationship (even though that would not be true). And then she would probably beg him to reconsider and waive the ultimatum. I am concerned about what this might mean for her mental health if it happens.

Or if, hypothetically, he responded positively, I don't believe it would be real and all the problems would still be there but MHIS would have to tolerate them because she gave the ultimatum for him to come home.

Or he might not respond to the ultimatum which would leave things unchanged except that she would have given away some of her power.

But what is happening now is a kind of mental torture. Passive abuse. What other soultion is there?!?

You are thinking like a woman, MHIS (nothing wrong with that but), and he is thinking like a man. As dittany says, the xxs on his texts mean nothing. I'm sure he wants his home back and he misses you and dd but I don't think he wants the responsibility and lack of freedom of playing a full role in the relationship. He wants to be friendly with you and affectionate without all the commitment of being a husband and father. It is possible he will never change and you will have to decide whether you want to drop your expectations and settle for him as he always has been - a lodger in your life. A child to your adult.

This is the only relationship you have ever known. This man is part of your biochemistry. Your hormones are so mixed with his that you are unable to see him objectively. If it ended, two or three years down the line, you might finally FEEL that it is over and for the best. Right now, you are still almost addicted to him. He is the father of your child. He is part of you.

A man's solution to these attachment feelings is to find someone else. The new hormone connection replaces the previous one and helps them get over lost or rejected love. Whereas women tend to grieve for ages and THEN move on. We do it the hard way because the other way is a bit unnatural for us.

I think we all (?) agree that you would probably be better without him. But you are not able to accept this at the moment. Until or unless you reach a point where you believe this too, I think you have two main options: act or stay passive.

It is natural to you to act and this is why you are struggling so much not to talk to him. It is natural to him to be passive which is why he isn't responding. The theory is that if you remain unusually (for you) passive, he will eventually be forced to be active and to say what he feels/wants. This should bring more equality into your relationship.

It hasn't happened yet. It should happen eventually in the sense that I would think he would not want to remain at his parents forever (?) You may be afraid that the longer it goes on the more he might want to move in with the OW. I don't know. But if he does move in with the OW, wouldn't that prove that he is not good enough for you, that it is not meant to be between you? Isn't your counsellor advising you to let go, let him make up his mind, without your influence? That what belongs to you will come back to you. That you have nothing to fear or lose because nature will take its course and what will be, will be.

In your place, I would be tempted to give an ultimatum to end the frustration. After all, if he really wants to be with you, even if he refuses to sort this out now, he will come back to you at some point so never say never. It is just tempting short-circuit the frustrating stalemate.

But, for real change to occur in your relationship, if it is at all possible, I think you have to continue with the horrible waiting game. Keep your cool, keep running over the facts in your mind, about him and her, about the nasty things he has said, aversion therapy. In order to maximise your objectivity and will power. Give him the opportunity to talk but don't initiate a discussion. Listen. Perhaps make eye contact, but not talk. He must crack eventually. Then you can decide.

I think he does love you, as in care about you, and dd. But I am not sure that he loves you as in 'when a man loves a woman' kind of love. I'm not sure he can ever feel this way about anyone. It doesn't say anything about you that he is this way.

As dittany says, just because you love someone, it doesn't mean that you have to be with them, if they're not good for you. There are men who are not capable of being a partner-in-life. They are natural lone rangers, self-contained. You can be with them as long as you accept that this is the way they are, i.e., you have all the responsibility and drudge and they have all the freedom and independence. (You are not 'allowed' to make demands on them or they get nasty or leave.) But it could be lonely and unsatisfying for you.

Not sure if your dh is like this but he might be.

Washing the car and being pleasant don't mean anything except that he wants to remain on good terms with you. He could be with the OW as we speak.

Could you not have him as a good friend and father to dd and, as others have said, find someone else to be your life-partner, someone who really appreciates and feels passionately about you?