How am I going to get through this :( (long post sorry!)

[MyHeadIsSpinning]

I've been with DH for over 10yrs, married for 1 and have a new baby. LO was born prem and we have been going through hell but she is home now and doing well.

DH has always been indecisive and before each major milestone, getting engaged, a house, married etc he has had a panic and discussed splitting up as he doesn't think he loves me enough to get engaged, buy a house, get married etc.

However once we have talked things through and he has had his stress he always decides that he does love me and wants to be with me.

Surprisingly getting pregnant was one thing that he didn't stress about and was really happy that we were expecting. When I delilved LO early and it was touch and go for me and LO - apparently cos I was out of it but have been told by various people - DH was a bit of a mess which was understandable, ie couldn't speak for crying. However he won't talk about this and although has been supportive during the weeks LO was in hospital on SCBU I feel he could have been there for me more than he was.

Over the weekend things have come to a head. We've been having a few niggly arguements and he has said over the past few weeks that he isn't sure if he loves me enough (again) and has been thinking about us splitting up. Yesterday I made a real effort - did my hair and make up etc and tried hard to make an effort - we had agreed to do this the night before. However DH didn't notice the effort I had made and was sullen all day only speaking when I spoke to him etc. When I cracked and said that his behaviour was upsetting me and I was upset that he hadn't commented that I looked nice - he said that he hadn't noticed that I'd made an effort and didn't think I looked as though I had particularyly

We had a 'discussion' during which he told me that;

He feels it would have been easier if I had died when havign LO as this would have ade things easier for him ie wouldn't have to decided to stay with me or not - this really hurt and he knows how bad it sounded.

He doesn't feel that he loves me enough and wishes that he's 'had the balls to leave me before marrying an having a baby'

When I asked why he married me he said he thought it would be a solution to how he was feeling about being not sure about the relationship and everyone else seemed to think it was a good idea. He was NOT pressurised into marrying me or indeed even staying with me.

The arguement went on until I said that I wasn't prepared to share our baby and him be a weekend dad. That isn't why I brought her into the workd to be passed about between two homes etc. I told him that it's all or nothing he either has us both or looses us both cos I'm not beign a part time mum and our daughter needs a full time dad.

He went to walk out of the room and I asked him how he felt right then - he replied like he wants to die

I left him to cool off and then went upstairs to see him. He was sat on the bed crying. He Said that he loves our daughter and doesn't want to be a part time dad but isn't sure that he loves me enough etc. He broke down and cried so hard he was howling and holding on to me - this is not like him he cries but only a little. This was a major breakdown kind of cry.

We have decided to see how things go for a couple of months and both make a real effort to make our marriage work He has said that he would rather fall back in love with me and make it work but at the moment isn't sure that this is possible.

I just feel so empty and don't know what to think. Part of me feels so sorry for him cos I love him and he is hurting and I want to make things better but can't) I have suggested that maybe he is depressed after the birth and the general situation and he said that he doesn't think so cos he just feels the same way as he has previously.

On the other hand I'm so angry with him for what he has said and that he is taking away this precious time with my new baby cos I can't enjoy her as much as I would cos I'm worried about the future and being on my own if he does leave us.

He finds talking difficult so I'm off to buy a couple of notepads for us both to write our feeligns in about the relationship and anything else over the coming months - I feel for me it will be cathartic and help when I really want to talk and he doesn't, for him I hope that writing down his feeligns and fears will help put them into perspective and help him to work through how he feels whatever the outcome may be.

I just feel sooo sad and can't stop thinking about what he has said and also part of me thinks that maybe we shoudl just call it a day and I can move on and find someone who does love me although not sure this would work as the person I want to love me doesn't Also I really don't want to be a single parent.

mhis - so true - THEY wouldn't want to go through the experience again. When really what they should be saying is they don't want to put US through it....
they are so wrapped up in themselves, they cannot see the hurt they have caused, and if they do, it only makes them feel bad about themselves.

I so agree - you cannot trust him until he proves himself to you. The onus is on HIM not YOU.

I have been speaking to a counsellor this evening. He is very sage and has given me excellent advice for getting through the past months. He suggested I tell him that I will be open to rebuilding the marriage if, and only if, he is committed to seeing this counsellor IMMEDIATELY and over an extended period of time! (the counsellor is a christian counsellor btw, he doesnt charge!).
So, ultimately the ball is in h's court. If he doesnt see him then no way, and if he does I believe the counselling will help him change.

btw mhis - what upbringing did your h have? my h's was very turbulent, sometimes violent, not loving, dad walked out and never turned up to see them when he arranged, mother showed no love. Do you think your h's upbringing is making his behave as he does?

DH comes from a stable background - parents still together after 30 odd yrs...

I have said that I think counsellign willhelp but he fluctuates - as with everything else about whether he thinks it would. He said tonight thta he has thought about goingbut not really.

I was tempted to say whatyou have been told to tell your DH but I feel that it is me callign the shots again and when I do this he rebels like a child.

I feel strongly that the action must come from DH. He must take the iniative.

mhis - I think I had to say that to him for MY sake, so I can say - IF he does this I will begin to commit to him, if NOT then the marriage really is over. I kind of set a condition upon which I can decide MY future.

I know what you mean Ratbunny. This is the difficult thing though. We are being given so much good advice on MN and in RL which is great and does really help - MN often gets me through the day!

However only you and I know our (D)H's and you know if something feels right.

My counsellor and many friends have said not to have any contact with (D)H and I really can see why. I have done this when it feels right but I have also spoken to him if that feels right too. Difficult call because when I do speak to hinm I'm constantly thinking 'hmm wonder what X,Y or Z would say about this' but then x,y and z only hear my side of the story and I suppose I feel I have a bigger picture.

I'm so tempted to say that I will give it another go on the condition that he will go to counselling, somehow changes his work stuation, prove he can change etc but atm I need him to make some changes by himself before I can say that to him.

I suppose I want him to change for me without me having to hold his hand and show him how.

Big change for him because this is exactly how we would have handled the situation previously. Big change for me too. But a change that needs to happen because the old way wasn't working.

Ratbunny only just seen your post from 9pm last night - not sure how I missed it!

I too have thought that maybe you are the OW I too am finding it good to share my (almost identical) experience with you. Where do you live?

My DH saud the same as yours abou he wasn't sure it could work because he wasn'sure if I could get over the affair and would be unable to trust him. Again though this is him thinking about how he feels.

"My DH said the same as yours about he wasn't sure it could work because he wasn'sure if I could get over the affair and would be unable to trust him. Again though this is him thinking about how he feels. "

Blimey I have to take my hat off to this man - talk about finding reasons to continue his inability to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIMSELF! Now he can't commit because he thinks you can't trust him!!!! THis was a situation HE brought into being and now it's an excuse not to try to remedy it. Gaaah!

Before he couldn't commit because he "wasn't sure he loved you" etc etc

When is it ever going to end? I'm so frustrated on your behalf!

What does he say when you challenge him about his refusal to decide anything for himself? Does he realise its probably the root of all the problems? I honestly think he needs a huge amount of counselling on his own as there's so much that's not right here and going as a couple could cloud the deep seated issues he needs to look at (whatever they are).

Katisha I agree re the counselling but I can't force him can I

He's taking LO tomorrow for a couple of hours I have plans so can't get into a conversation with him which may be for the best

No you can't sadly...

Just working from the observation of someone else in a pretty similar situation, the fatal ditherer in question didn't realise the crisis he was in till the other person finally called it a day and left him to it. He then woke up with a great shock and realised he'd gone too far with a lifetime of trying to keep all his options open and committing to none of them. That relationship ended but it was the catalyst for him to get into serious counselling.

I think your DH won't do this while he still thinks there's a chance he can dither his way back into his marriage. I'm pretty sure that at the moment he doesn't understand the need for deep change.

mhis - I am in cambridge. where are you?

no, they wont commit, wont take responsibilty. I am beginning to think he only wanted to come back cos I was getting on with my life, and now I am asking him questions etc he cant handle the reality. I wonder if ow would take him back after the cruel treatment he has also put her through? oh, he would probably blame me for it wouldnt he

I am not going to commit anything until he gets counselling, and I suggest you do the same. becuase without them sorting their sorry, irresponsible, selfish arses out, there is no future for our relationships anyway. and if they dont get counselling and go back with ow - well she will just have to put up with all their shit further down the line.

I had a dream last night in which he slept with ow again, in his 'dithering' stage. And I still wanted to work on it. And I woke up and thought - what the FUCK are you thinking? ! . lol

Its great to have the support of someone else going through the same thing - together we are stronger than on our own

Thanks Ratbunny. I live in the North West
A shame as It would have been nice to actually meet up.

This morning I was so upset and really unsure what I wanted to do. This evening I am feeling calmer and more in control.

I think the best thing for me to do at the moment is to continue reflecting on what has happened. I don't think it is safe to make a decision at the moment because my mind is all over the place and I fluctuate from one hour to the next. Until I feel more certain about wht I want I am not going to make any decisions.

Just the times that I feel down are so overwhelming it is difficult to think straight sometimes and it would be so easy to just ask him to try again. I'm going to try my hardest to not have any contact with him other than what is necessary re DD to help myself keep control of my emotions and thoughts.

you are up north! it would have been good to meet up over a cuppa and discuss our woes! you can always cat me - I dont have it unfortunately, but I think you can email me direct if you do? unless you are on msn?
a good idea about not seeing him. I felt I was stronger when I wasnt seeing him. It gives you space to get on with your own life, and to see what it would be like without him iyswim. He only clouds your judgement. I found it useful, whenever I was feeling angry / upset / whatever, to say to myself 'I am feeling sad because...' and verbalise it to myself. Made it sink in a bit.
h left ds' car seat in his car last night (how typical is that?), and so is coming over to drop it off tonight. from his curt texts today, I can imagine he is back with ow. I WILL NOT mention 'us' at all, will be friendly and chat, but not about that.
I am trying to go with the solution frm yesterday that if he seeks counselling, then it will be because he wants to come back and I will be open to that. If he doesnt go for it, then fuck him. It is hard though...
My only relief / hope is that ow will find out what a knob he is in the coming months. unfortunately I think she is besotted, and it will take a while for her to see his bad points. as he told me - she 'looks after him'. ffs a 23 yr old looking after a 33yr old! how sad is that?

I don't have CAT either. but you can email me at [email protected]

what is it with these blokes fluctuating. Have ou asked him about counselling yet? Have you given him the relate book?

I'm reading it at the moment. have skim read it now goign through it in more detail.

Hi MHIS, Just checkin in honey to see how you are doing! Thinking of you chick!! xx

I am having a bad day today. Feeling really sad. I just dont think I ca do this much longer. He is not willin g to commit either way, is being short with me on the phone.
I really want to call it a day, but feel so sad to do so...
will email you my msn address - could do with a chat. Do you have msn?

(((ratbunny)))
I've added you to msn and replied to your email...

I'm doing okay today.. but DH is collecting DD tonight so that could all change in a few hrs.

This constant up and down is so exhausting. I hate it. I just try to remind myself when I'm feeling down that it usually doesn' last more than a day and I WILL feel better. Easier said than done tho.

yeah you are right - it is usually a short term low. I do feel like I may be slipping into depression though. Like you said, the constant ups and downs are exhausting.
Glad you are having a better day tho. Let us know if he picks he up / drops her off on time this time

do u want to chat on msn now?

have to put ds to bed first, then have a tidy cos I am staying at a friends...
I should be online later tonight. If you are on at the same time, message me

Hello MHIS. Sorry, I've been away and incommunicado again.

Hope things have been ok this week. He is such an idiot. So utterly selfish and pathetic. This man is not a "man" in any sense of the word. I agree completely with KAtisha's summary of how nothing is ever his responsibility. He is still treating you with so little respect. He has certainly not demonstrated his love for you at all. He should be respecting your wishes - that's a given, a thing I would do for anyone, a natural reaction, and yet he's got you believing that he is giving you something by doing so

He has got you expecting so little from a relationship. It's so sad. And so unfair. Relationships are a partnership of equals. We all go through phases when we take more than we give, but we will then go through others where we are the ones giving. It's called standing together. And when he should have been stood by your side he was off feeding his bruised ego - jealous of your lack of attention.

Sorry about the rant. But you deserve so much better. His good points all sound mediocre and are so outweighed by his self-centredness.

Thinking of you.

Thanks YKNOTC

Been up and down again. He picked up DD late on Tues and brought her back late. The same again last night and when I tackeled him about it and said that it was in DD best interests to come back on time because she is hungry and crying when she comes back.

He was off with me so I said he wouldn't be able to take her if he carries on bringing her back late.

He said that he will get a court injunction if I do that and in any case he's coming back home soon cos he owns the house too and he can come back whenever he wants! (I know by law this is the case) Hopefully it was an idle threat made in anger, I really don't think he would want to live together atm I certainly don't.

Think part of it was jealousy because I was out whilst he had DD and he made a comment about this, and the fact that that he is the one working and paying for the house atm. He is the one spending far more than I am though!

I'm just getting on with my life as much as I can and hoping that if I ignore him and his childish behaviour he will pull himself together and start acting like a proper father to his daughter.

He can be as off as he likes. Don't give in to it! He's playing the petulant child again.

Don't forget that while he is out working, you are providing full time child care for your DD (she is both your responsibilities, which he seems to conveniently forget).

Have you got some money put away where he can't get to it? I'm worried he might start trying to control you through that, now that his other methods are failing.

Tell him to get a court injuction! Does he not realise that then he would be legally obliged to be back on time!

Have you spoken to a solicitor at all. I know you're not ready to think about the "d" word, but he/she would be able to let you know where you stand now that you're separated. If you can't face a lawyer then definitely try CAB. They're very helpful.

Yes speak to CAB or solicitor if only to know exactly what your rights are, because then he can't start trying to bluster you (new tactic)...

Thanks for your thoughts and concern! I have made sure I know exactly where I stand with a solicitor and CAB.

Excellent. See? Your on top of everything already

I'm going to be away from a computer for another week now - all the school holiday's fault! Stay strong and enjoy that lovely daughter of yours.

Speak to you soon, MHIS

DH picked up DD on time and returned with her on time (well 5 min late) at weekend. When he returned with her I was ready to go out - managed to get into my pre-pregnancy clothes, hair was looking good and I was feeling good about myself. DH's first comment was 'you look nice' something he struggled to say when we were together.

He was desperate to start a conversation with me and was trying really hard. I was polite but wouldn't enter into any real conversation.

I went out and had a great day and a lovely evening but now - after very little sleep because DD up 3 times between 1 and 4am -I have woke up feeling very down. Thoughts of what he did and how it has made me feel are just so overwhelming this morning.

I have been physically sick and my head is pounding. But I've got to pull myself together and get on with it for my DD sake. So unfair that he can have all the time he wants to wallow, think whatever and I don't have that luxury. Maybe a good thing but god for a day to myself