BIL always so mean to my DS. Don't know how to handle it.

[Blubunnie]

My BIL (DH's brother) has two sons. Both are slightly neurodiverse but high functioning. Like some parents do he likes to show off about their achievements eg one is a maths genius and one is really artistic. They struggle in other ways eg communication, eye contact, obsessions etc but neither have a diagnosis. Their parents treat them like babies in some ways eg they still have their food cut up for them (they are 14 and 11), don't dress themselves, parents brush their teeth for them etc. whereas they are perfectly capable of doing this (and have done so perfectly happily when parents aren't around) so it's a really weird vibe in general.

What is upsetting is that BIL (but not SIL) takes every opportunity to criticise or put down my DS who is 13. DS is polite, mature, kind and capable so it does stick out when he does "normal" things that his cousins don't do. Like he would offer to make others a cup for tea while his cousins are having their dinner cut up for them and eating it with toddler cutlery. BIL criticises my DS or "jokingly" pokes fun at hin all the time. In the past I've just put it down to BIL being a bit overprotective of his sons and kind of wanting to even things out by praising his sons for doing basic things like put their shoes on (which they are more than capable of doing) while saying that DS's shoes make him look like a clown - just one example.

But my DS is starting to get really upset about it. BIL ignores my DD who is 8 as presumably he doesn't see her as being in competition with his DSs. Anything DS says he gets made fun of or criticised for. My DH has spoken to BIL about it but he gets all defensive and starts huffing and puffing and saying he's just joking. But he keeps on doing it and it's clearly not a joke and has a malicious undertone.

I don't really know how else we can handle it. It's sensitive as I think BIL clearly feels like my DS "shows up" his DSs differences and it makes him uncomfortable so he goes out of his way to praise his DSs while pulling down my DS. If it was just my feelings being hurt I would ignore it as I think he's not worth engaging with. But DS has to spend time around him and I don't know if I should be stepping up more to protect him from it or just accept that is how it is. DS is really mature and is aware of why BIL is behaving that way towards him but it doesn't stop him feeling hurt by it.

Unfortunately there's no escaping BIL as we are visiting family from overseas and DH and BIL's Dad has terminal cancer so we are having an extended "holiday" in thr UK to spend time with him.

Not really sure what I'm asking here as I don't think taking to BIL again will make any difference, and I can't remove DS from the situation as he is spending time with his Grandpa. Just wanted to see if anyone has any words of advice I suppose.

Talk to him - with DH so as to present a united front.

Give him 24 hours to stop the behaviour.

Look for a room locally as a plan B.

"being honest and saying that his little jokes have a mean undertone and upset your ds and knock his confidence. That you aren't putting up with his bullying behaviour and that he needs to stop being an arse."

Do this. Don't go in making stupid comments about compensating for BIL's penis size or tinkly laugh while you count up the number of comments.

First time he says something mean you calmly tell him that you don't find it funny and that as an adult he needs to stop making mean comments to your child.

If anyone suggests you are making a scene, point out that you are speaking calmly and you are not being rude. Then ask if you can fetch anyone a drink/pass the peas.

If either BIL or anyone else makes further comments after this, they are being rude and any bad atmosphere is entirely down to them not you.
A pointed stare and a quiet "that's enough thank you BIL".

Personally if BIL tried a third time I would be standing and thanking MIL (or whoever) for their hospitality and leaving.

Therefore the best response is going to be to do something in response that actually widens the gap, so it defeats the object. It depends on what your DS is like, but can you teach him some witty/cutting "jokey" responses? If he can pull these off in quite an 'adult' way, then it will make him look even more mature compared with his cousins and the behaviour is likely to stop.

Please don’t do this either! Just leave the cousins out of it. It’s not their fault their dad is an arsehole, and involving them in any way (especially highlighting their difficulties) to try and get to him is stooping to his level.

I’m the parent with the child with ASD, who can never match his similarly-aged cousins for maturity and social skills. It does make a little sad sometimes, but I’d never dream of taking it out on the cousins. OP’s BIL’s behaviour is down to him being a bullying twat, NOT because of the circumstances.

this

So I had a chat with DS about it all this morning. He said that he doesn't want me or DH to say anything to BIL. His exact words were "I like standing up for myself". I've given him some ideas of what to say in different situations. In particular, calling out the comments as mean or nasty as I think it's important to label them this way so it's harder to dismiss them as jokes. I've also said that if he ever wants me to step in and say something he just needs to give me a look and I'll do it immediately.

DS also said its good practice for how to deal with difficult people at school. And is keen to find his own way to deal with it. He said he's looking forward to the next comment so he can put his ideas into practice. I'm so proud of his mature attitude but I will absolutely step in if there is a good opportunity (ie if Im there when BIL says something) as despite what DS said you guys are right that it is important for us as parents to call BIL out on this. But rather than insulting BIL I think its much more effective to label his comments as mean or unkind.

Call him out on it in front of everyone. When he says about clown shoes just say "BIL your apparent jokes are not funny. They are hurtful and the victim of them is a 13 year old. You are treading into bullying territory and I won't allow it"

I'm speechless,

I'm so taken aback by this I can't formulate my thoughts,

Except I think it's amazing that the one 'adult' in this whole sorry mess is your son.

And don't think I'm congratulating you about it

I’d get BIL on his own and tell him to stop with the jokey comments putting your DS down. If he protests that he is only joking point out that as he is the only one who finds it funny it is bullying not joking. I would say in no under terms that out of respect for his parents and the circumstances you have not made an issue but that that stops now. If he doesn’t stop you will go nuclear at him and consequences be damned. He knows you are considering his parents and upsetting them. Tell him you are beyond caring and you are more concerned about your son and that the bullying stops now. And also tell him you have already warned your DS that if BIL says anything to him behind your back he is to tell you.

Started typing my response and got interrupted before I read your latest reply. My comment still stands. Get BIL in his own and warn him you will not stand for this any longer.

When he is saying these ‘joke’ things (did you give any examples other than the clown shoes?) what do other people say? Is uncle knob-head laughing? Is anyone?

I’d be tempted to ask, ‘was that a joke? It wasn’t very funny’ every time.

You should be doing this, not letting your 13 year old DS to deal with it on his own!!!

Anyway, if you insist on letting your DS be on his own for this, I would suggest to him to ask BIL why he's being a bully, when it happens again. In those words. And keep repeating the question.

Dreadful that your letting your son deal with this because your too weak to stand up for your own child. Cowardice from every adult in this story

What a great lad you've raised ! Very mature response

Your son sounds great. You don’t.

Sadky you aren’t stepping up as the parent in this situation. He’s a thirteen year old CHILD trying to sort out this mess effectively on his own.

Its absolutely pathetic to see a grown adult bully a child. I can't fathom why any loving parent would tolerate it.

If this was in the UK, this would be a Safeguarding issue as the children s needs are not being met. Abuse doesn’t just mean a slap. These children s needs maybe being neglected by their well meaning parents. Maths genius or not, how can you manage in the real world, if you can’t dress or feed yourself??

I wouldn't be congratulating the parents.

He's mature because someone has to be!

Not picking on you but just wanted to highlight this element of the OP that lots of people have picked up on.
It's not unusual for neurodivergent children to want parents to do things for them that they can do themselves. It's common in all children but they grow out of it more quickly.

There are two reasons:
First, children often ask parents to do things for them they are able to do, and it's because it makes them feel loved when the adult does it. It's not a bad thing.

Second, in neurodivergent children (and to a lesser extent, ND adults) getting a loved one to do things can be a way of coping with the additional demands being placed on them at that time. So if they are coping with talking to people, noise, a new location, different lights and smells, etc., then they may not feel able to do those smaller things they usually can do. Again, it isn't a bad thing and certainly doesn't indicate abuse!

I know people on here are often not very clued up about the lives of neurodivergent people, so I hope this at least puts that bit to bed.

OP, you cannot please everyone in this situation. At the moment (yes I read your update) you are choosing to put BiL first. The only way to put your son first is to stand up for him. I hope you'll do that rather than leave him to fight alone. He has said he wants to do it but he will be hoping that you will, he's probably just realised you won't, because you don't really "have his back" in any meaningful way.

I had an uncle like this by the way. I've never really forgiven my parents for not standing up for me. Luckily for me my uncle died young so I escaped that way. Your son isn't likely to be so lucky so as his mum you need to stand up for him. Honestly, he won't forgive you if you don't.

This - very firmly, but to him on his own.
Quite frankly, I’d threaten to hit the bloody roof very loudly next time he does it. Tell him if he doesn’t want all hell to break out and for his DC to be upset, he knocks it on the head now.

I would go in once but go in hard. "If you can't say anything positive then say nothing at all you big bully" and if there were one more incident then I'm afraid it'd be "shut the fuck up snd worry more about the abuse you're perpetuating on your own kids".
I appreciate it's a difficult situation but so long as dh and your own son are able to spend time with their Dad/Grandad then everyone else can F off.

For fuck's sake. What's wrong with you?

It's hard to give examples as nothing taken on its own is that bad, it's just the relentless nature of it. So someone else would tell a joke and BIL would laugh. DS would tell a joke and BIL would groan and roll his eyes. Or DS would get an answer right on a quiz and BIL would say he was lucky he got an easy one. DS would be relating a story and BIL would say something like "get to the point".

So it's not really the things he says in isolation are that bad - he's generally being a grumpy git - but it is definitely directed at DS more than anyone else.

I think there is a lot of projection and assumption on this thread and it's interesting how many times I've been accused of being a terrible parent and letting my DS be emotionally damaged. I'm trying to navigate difficult family relationships at a stressful time and despite what some have said DS absolutely knows I am his champion. DS and I are really close and for reasons that I won't go into here as they are personal i can assure everyone that he 100% knows I have his back in all things. You'll just have to take my word for that. He has asked me not to say anything to BIL as he wants to deal with it himself. He is very confident and on the debating team at school (probably another bone of contention with BIL) so happy to hold his own in an argument.

He has no respect for BIL so he doesn't take any of what he says to heart, he's just fed up of the relentless targeting. It's just difficult to know how to react at the time as each thing BIL says is like a minor dig so if you react strongly you seem like you're overreacting to something minor, when the point is that it's just one of 10 minor things he's directed at DS that day.

Anyway, I'm going to leave the thread now as I've had enough of being insulted and called names. Ironic really...

OP. I'm sorry you feel insulted and attacked. You asked (title of your thread) how to handle it and lots of people have suggested assertive ways to do so. So you have concluded...let the 13 year old handle it...

I'm glad your DS is mature enough to realise it's shit behaviour. He's also mature enough to realise that you, his own parents, don't have his back whatsoever. Defend him! Every time you do not defend him or keep forcing him to be in this verbally abusive situation, you are putting him last. What the fuck are you teaching him here. How to internalise how shit an adult thinks he is? How to pretend he's ok because he hasn't got support and protection from his own mum and dad?!

It may look complicated, but actually it's very simple. Defend him.