BIL always so mean to my DS. Don't know how to handle it.

[Blubunnie]

My BIL (DH's brother) has two sons. Both are slightly neurodiverse but high functioning. Like some parents do he likes to show off about their achievements eg one is a maths genius and one is really artistic. They struggle in other ways eg communication, eye contact, obsessions etc but neither have a diagnosis. Their parents treat them like babies in some ways eg they still have their food cut up for them (they are 14 and 11), don't dress themselves, parents brush their teeth for them etc. whereas they are perfectly capable of doing this (and have done so perfectly happily when parents aren't around) so it's a really weird vibe in general.

What is upsetting is that BIL (but not SIL) takes every opportunity to criticise or put down my DS who is 13. DS is polite, mature, kind and capable so it does stick out when he does "normal" things that his cousins don't do. Like he would offer to make others a cup for tea while his cousins are having their dinner cut up for them and eating it with toddler cutlery. BIL criticises my DS or "jokingly" pokes fun at hin all the time. In the past I've just put it down to BIL being a bit overprotective of his sons and kind of wanting to even things out by praising his sons for doing basic things like put their shoes on (which they are more than capable of doing) while saying that DS's shoes make him look like a clown - just one example.

But my DS is starting to get really upset about it. BIL ignores my DD who is 8 as presumably he doesn't see her as being in competition with his DSs. Anything DS says he gets made fun of or criticised for. My DH has spoken to BIL about it but he gets all defensive and starts huffing and puffing and saying he's just joking. But he keeps on doing it and it's clearly not a joke and has a malicious undertone.

I don't really know how else we can handle it. It's sensitive as I think BIL clearly feels like my DS "shows up" his DSs differences and it makes him uncomfortable so he goes out of his way to praise his DSs while pulling down my DS. If it was just my feelings being hurt I would ignore it as I think he's not worth engaging with. But DS has to spend time around him and I don't know if I should be stepping up more to protect him from it or just accept that is how it is. DS is really mature and is aware of why BIL is behaving that way towards him but it doesn't stop him feeling hurt by it.

Unfortunately there's no escaping BIL as we are visiting family from overseas and DH and BIL's Dad has terminal cancer so we are having an extended "holiday" in thr UK to spend time with him.

Not really sure what I'm asking here as I don't think taking to BIL again will make any difference, and I can't remove DS from the situation as he is spending time with his Grandpa. Just wanted to see if anyone has any words of advice I suppose.

Honestly who cares when they say its just a joke, can't you take a joke? That doesn't have to be the end of the conversation. MiL is just trained at ending it there because it makes her life easier. But you can respond with "well yes we can take an actual joke, but if you mean unkind digs disguised as jokes, at the expense of our child then no we absolutely won't stand for those and will call them out every time.".

I was the child who was expected to be mature enough to cope with endless negativity in a similar way. It’s not ok. Help him or he’ll carry it for a long time.

If someone suggests “he’s just joking” your response could be “joking or not I don’t find it funny and don’t think MY son should have to put up with it”. If it continues you could draw a dick on a price of paper every time it happens. If anyone complains say ….”WHAT??? Not funny? I could stop if you do?” Go in hard and unhinged, this isn’t going on anymore.

When BIL says that it’s a joke you remind him that something is only a joke when everybody finds it funny, otherwise it’s bullying. Say it every time. Tell him he’s a bully. You don’t need to use raised voices or angry tones to do it. Just tell him that you, your husband and your son don’t find it funny and given that he now knows that to carry on is bullying. When PIL raise an issue simply say that you won’t tolerate your son being bullied, but then offer a cup of tea and move on. You need to be absolutely clear you won’t accept it. It’s the only way to stop it.

I wonder whether BIL is on the autistic spectrum himself.

Which doesn't justify his behaviour

First answer had it.
Every bit of so-called bantz.
All three of you in unison.
Every time.
I'd also write down these "jokes" and dismantle them over dinner.
I'm petty like that.

Yes I suspect he is and its sort of a pattern of PIL "protecting" BIL by making too many allowances for him.

I will have a think about how I can stand up for DS more. At the moment we just catch each others eye and smirk or roll our eyes. DS knows I have his back but its a delicate situation so I've been trying not to add more fuel to the fire but will definitely start being more vocal and calling him out every time.

It is tricky not wanting to cause a bad family atmosphere when someone is dying though! It wouldn't be helpful to anyone to go in all guns blazing.

And get him to explain the joke. Questioning head tilt, look him in the eye, ask him "but why is it a joke? How is it funny? I don't get it? I don't get the joke? Can you explain the joke?"
And keep going until he huffs, at which point you can just smile and say, "oh I see. You were just being mean to my child for your own amusement then"

It is tricky not wanting to cause a bad family atmosphere when someone is dying though! It wouldn't be helpful to anyone to go in all guns blazing.

The person causing a bad family atmosphere is your BIL. The person suffering from this is your DS. BIL doesn't care about causing a bad family atmosphere with his little digs, does he? The neutral position is everyone behaving reasonably politely and courteously to each other. It's BIL who is stepping away from that. Allowing him to pick at your poor son isn't 'not causing a bad atmosphere', it's allowing your child to be harassed and not standing up for him.

'BIL, don't take your small penis size out on our son!

'BIL, you know how sad / desperate you sound when you pick on a kid'

'BIL, thank feck I married the mature brother'

'BIL, you know you're a prize twat'

'BIL, you know how much of a disservice you're doing to your sons when you put down ours? It's like you're saying the only reason they're 'better' than ours is because of their autism. Do you know how ableist & othering that is to them?'

I think your dh - or you if he is not comfortable doing it - need to take your BIL aside away from everyone else and say "listen. You need to stop making crap jokes at my childs expense right now - I know what you are doing and you know what you are doing and I'm sick of it and my child is sick of it and I won't tolerate it anymore - right mate?"

Your BiL is a classic Arsehole with massive insecurities issues and a chipolata size Penis too...

He is exhibiting classic shitty attitudes and behaviourism

Fuck off Brother in law your a massive Prick Bell end...
or
Something similar

I can stand men like this

No wonder 🤔 some women prefer to be lesbiens than be romantically involved with the quality of men who are like this out there...

You and your DH to say something back to him when he does this, you can’t let him treat your son this way.

Either ask him to explain himself (What do you mean by that BIL? Why did you say that BIL? Please can you explain further BIL?). Having him explain the ‘joke’ makes everyone else see it’s actually unfunny.

or everytime he says something you need to disagree with him, if he says to your DS his shoes make him look like a clown you say back no they don’t make you look like a clown etc.

The person responsible for the atmosphere is your BIL. I have an ND child. He's 12. He needs a level of support that is a lot more than an NT child of the same age, however, my job is to encourage him to cut his own food, clean his own teeth, dress himself etc. I appreciate it isn't always easy but there is zero excuse for your BIL taking his frustrations out on his nephew and I'd call him out every single time and loudly too. I would say that while you say his children are "perfectly capable", it isn't always the case. For example my son can do quite complicated Lego builds and even some engineering with his Hornby stuff but he can't tie shoelaces and struggles with a knife and fork. It is frustrating as a parent but I cannot imagine a situation where I'd think it was acceptable to take that out on another child. He needs to be told quite clearly that his behaviour is completely unacceptable. Your poor boy, it's not ok!

@Blubunnie sorry but I would be moving my children to the nearest hotel for the remainder of your stay!! your kids would only need to visit everyday for a short time and hubby can do what he wants!! this is cruel to your kids and cannot go on!

Every time he does it swiftly lean in to whisper your pity at him having to ‘make jokes’ to boost his ego which is as small as his penis.
Hit him where it hurts.

It is tricky not wanting to cause a bad family atmosphere when someone is dying though! It wouldn't be helpful to anyone to go in all guns blazing

You're either a massive people pleaser or this is all wet lettuce jackanory. God help your son and his self-esteem, as a child having to face up to a grown man bully because his parent's won't. Your BIL is happy enough to carry on during a bad family time because he knows you and your husband won't do anything about it.

You talk about just rolling eyes and smirking with your son at BIL's barbed comments, as if that's something good. It isn't. Your son needs another trusted adult in his life aside from his parents. Another relative, maybe. Hopefully he has that at least.

Arm your DS with some comebacks to call him out or shut it down.

"why would you say that?"
"you seem very concerned with what I'm doing, why is that?"
"you need to learn some better jokes Uncle Fred"
"I can see why you might feel threatened by that" (with a sympathetic smile)

Also tell him it's absolutely fine to ignore totally and turn his back if his uncle starts in on him.

Just tell him to fuck off and state you don't ever want to be in his company again.

I mean it's not pleasant is it, and it never will be with this arsehole.

Get rid of the arseholes, when you're older you'll realise you should have never put up with this even once.
Being related to someone doesn't mean you have to still know them, sod the social niceties.

And it was his fault so no blaming yourself.

'can you stop criticising my son.'

FIL is similar. I advised DH that my red line, the hill I would die on, my road to Damascus was this: FIL would never emotionally harm my child or I would do what I had to do. And I did. No allowances, no letting things slide. And FIL doesn't do it now. Despite calling the other GC 'stupid' and all sorts, DD is off limits. She's Teflon because of me.

My DH has spoken to BIL about it but he gets all defensive and starts huffing and puffing and saying he's just joking. But he keeps on doing it and it's clearly not a joke and has a malicious undertone.

"A joke is when the other person laughs" "no BIL, that's not funny" "please don't target my child BIL". So he gets huffy and defensive? So the fuck what? I stand between DD and harm. If it was a hot pan or a barking dog you would. This is harm too. Take the force of the blow on you.

Tell him "Your jokes are not funny and if you continue to pick on, bully or belittle my son then you are no longer welcome here, and this will be the ONLY time I tell you." Then stick to it.

There is no way I would be letting anyone abuse my child by making him feel bad or uncomfortable, let alone in his own home.

It’s really ok if they think you are over sensitive or can’t take a joke. It’s fine if they don’t like you.

I am sympathetic to BIL's position and can understand where the family is coming from but like other posters your son (and daughter) need to see you challenge this perspective. There are some good suggestions for being firm and protective on here already.

My mum does something similar with my nephew who is quite traditionally autistic presenting- saying stuff like he's such a deep thinker, so clever etc. I agree, he's a very clever and interesting chap with some fascinating interests and insights. However I think the overcompensation and assertions show there is some uncomfortable feelings in there.

I wonder if another strategy is to praise all the children for their achievements? It's a real honour for me to hear my nephew tell me all about his ideas and theories. I try to meet him on his terms. Equally, I explain to my child that he's my nephew so I don't parent him, I "aunt" him so I will be more lenient! If you are calm, accepting, protective and positive your child will see you model healthy kindness and see his uncle for the sad loser he is.

I think we all agree BIL is a dick and he isn't going to change and the rest of the family are not going to back you so kill him with fucking kindness and show all the kids that some grown ups have emotional maturity and accept them for who they fully are.

I'm sure you've posted about this before and received advice along the same lines as above. Grow a backbone and defend your son FGs.

I can't believed what I've just read, I understand how this will be really upsetting for you.

Have you told DS that the way BIL is treating him says absolutely nothing about him, but says everything about BIL? It is a reflection on BIL only - not your son. We are not responsible for how people treat us.

Clearly your BIL is an insecure bully. How pathetic picking on a child like this. Call him a bully to his face - watch his squirm and try and get out of this. Ask him why he is talking to your son like this. How would he feel if your husband made fun of his kids' shoes? I'm sure all hell would break loose. Tell him to pick on someone his own size.

BIL will likely keep doing this as there are no consequences that matter to him as a result of his words / actions.

This is so messed up and could severely damage DS's self-esteem long term.

My DH had a horrible, horrible uncle who ridiculed him for everything when he was younger. DH's dad never stood up for him and he sadly lost his mum when he was young. The stuff DH's uncle said to him still affects him to this day (he is 34). Maybe DH would have been able to cope with a bully like his uncle better if his dad had stood up for him, supported him and given him a loving home.

It sounds like you're already doing this but just always keep the line of communication open with your son, keep supporting him and building his self-esteem. We will all have encounters with bullies at one time or another in our lives, it's just so sad that this is coming from your DH's family.