BIL always so mean to my DS. Don't know how to handle it.

[Blubunnie]

My BIL (DH's brother) has two sons. Both are slightly neurodiverse but high functioning. Like some parents do he likes to show off about their achievements eg one is a maths genius and one is really artistic. They struggle in other ways eg communication, eye contact, obsessions etc but neither have a diagnosis. Their parents treat them like babies in some ways eg they still have their food cut up for them (they are 14 and 11), don't dress themselves, parents brush their teeth for them etc. whereas they are perfectly capable of doing this (and have done so perfectly happily when parents aren't around) so it's a really weird vibe in general.

What is upsetting is that BIL (but not SIL) takes every opportunity to criticise or put down my DS who is 13. DS is polite, mature, kind and capable so it does stick out when he does "normal" things that his cousins don't do. Like he would offer to make others a cup for tea while his cousins are having their dinner cut up for them and eating it with toddler cutlery. BIL criticises my DS or "jokingly" pokes fun at hin all the time. In the past I've just put it down to BIL being a bit overprotective of his sons and kind of wanting to even things out by praising his sons for doing basic things like put their shoes on (which they are more than capable of doing) while saying that DS's shoes make him look like a clown - just one example.

But my DS is starting to get really upset about it. BIL ignores my DD who is 8 as presumably he doesn't see her as being in competition with his DSs. Anything DS says he gets made fun of or criticised for. My DH has spoken to BIL about it but he gets all defensive and starts huffing and puffing and saying he's just joking. But he keeps on doing it and it's clearly not a joke and has a malicious undertone.

I don't really know how else we can handle it. It's sensitive as I think BIL clearly feels like my DS "shows up" his DSs differences and it makes him uncomfortable so he goes out of his way to praise his DSs while pulling down my DS. If it was just my feelings being hurt I would ignore it as I think he's not worth engaging with. But DS has to spend time around him and I don't know if I should be stepping up more to protect him from it or just accept that is how it is. DS is really mature and is aware of why BIL is behaving that way towards him but it doesn't stop him feeling hurt by it.

Unfortunately there's no escaping BIL as we are visiting family from overseas and DH and BIL's Dad has terminal cancer so we are having an extended "holiday" in thr UK to spend time with him.

Not really sure what I'm asking here as I don't think taking to BIL again will make any difference, and I can't remove DS from the situation as he is spending time with his Grandpa. Just wanted to see if anyone has any words of advice I suppose.

Time to put your son's feelings first. By not speaking up for him it looks like you are more concerned about your BIL's feelings than your son's feelings.

Your ds doesn't know you have his back because you don't.

My ex inlaws were like this and they never changed. Always kept peace and looked like wimps frankly.

@Blubunnie can I point out that if your BIL feels insecure or some sort of shame over his children's neurodiversity, that's his problem not anyone else's?

If he feels threatened by your son then why on earth are you pandering to it? He needs to grow up (counselling is available if he needs it).

Tell him to pack it it. You don't care if its meant to be a joke, he isn't funny and if he's going moan about the fact that people don't find him funny rather than just respecting others you simply won't visit anymore. There's joking and then there's bullying...and bullying a 13 year old boy won't compensate for the difficulties his own children face. If BIL's ego is so delicate & fragile then he really should get professional help.

I’d say sweetly every time “blowing someone else’s light doesn’t make yours shine any brighter” I’d say this every. Single. Time He made a dig.

also your poor son

I would wait until the appropriate moment and give him a telling off about everything you mentioned here. Put your foot down and don't let him come over again if he keeps verbally abusing your son.

Very possible

Speak up for your son. So when he does joke, say in a firm tone, 'oh piss off bil, not in the mood for your jokes today'. When he makes another which this type always do then reaffirm, 'really not funny, you arsehole'. Keep answering back. Or the alternative which would be my preference is being honest and saying that his little jokes have a mean undertone and upset your ds and knock his confidence. That you aren't putting up with his bullying behaviour and that he needs ro stop being an arse. If he gets defensive which he will you say that it really isn't on and that actually he's the one comparing the boys and then being mean to your son and frankly you won't have it. At 16 I'd expect him to be able to challenge.an adult being rude to him but at 13 he's still very much a child and I don't know why you would keep exposing him to your bills jibes. You also don't need to be joined at the hip with your dh, if he wants to see bil then let him but your son doesn't have to.

He sounds like an absolute arsehole. You could also try keeping count of his comments and nastiness. "Ooh that's the first nasty comment of the day aimed at DS". Followed by "snidey comment number 2, and its only 9am".

If you can't be direct, try killing with cuntyness in a sing song voice, and if he challenges is you give it the "I'm only joking BIL with a little laugh.

If it doesn't work, then give him the do you want me to treat your children the same way as you are treating mine? And let him know what he can shut the fuck up or you can join in. Maybe he needs help to see things from yours/Ds perspective.

You aren't causing any "atmosphere" and it's not your son's role to be a sacrificial offering in order to keep the peace. This dynamic was present before grandad got sick and will remain after he dies, if you let it continue.

Use it as a great teaching experience to show both of your children how we deal with dickheads. What we don't do is keep quiet to make everyone comfortable. That's what you're teaching them at the moment. Again, book an airbnb, do what you need to do with grandad, and get them out of there otherwise.

You don't go through MIL to ask her to make it stop, YOU are now the mother, you make it stop.

What sort of things is he saying?

Completely this. How on earth does ds ‘know that you’ve got his back’ when none of your actions show this and you’re letting him be bullied by an adult to keep the peace.

your son will remember you put him in that situation and held him there to be made the butt of the joke.

honestly, I’d not visit when bil is there. Dh can go on his own.

you’ve had some great suggestions for what to say if you want to raise it. Ultimately you should protect ds from his emotionally abusive uncle. How you choose to do that at this tricky time is down to you as the parents.

Like others have said YOU have to find a way to call it out. This helps your son to learn that bullies can be tackled.. and give him some tools to start doing it for himself.

If someone did it to me I'd probabky give them.a.dead stare. Or ask a question ..sorry, I didn't quite hear/get that what did u say (with a stare .. the idea is you are so shocked at,what you heard u must have got it wrong) .
Lots of ideas here .. pick a few. But whatever you do, don't stay silent or speak to him in private . You have to model not tolerating bullying behaviour. Which is what,this is.

Oh this is horrible for you and your Ds. I hate when families allow one person to be a shit and get away with it. I had a similar situation when I holidayed with my DB- constant criticism of my child and how I parent. I’ve actually chosen not see him at xmas because I’m still so angry at him.

In your shoes I’d do the following…
*Be direct with DB. “We’ve noticed you are regularly critical of DS and it is making us and DS uncomfortable. I’m not happy with it continuing”.
*If/when he criticises your DS address it immediately. “That is the type of comment we spoke to you about. No it’s not a joke and no it’s not ok. If you like to keep commenting on our child we will be happy to comment on your and your parenting. I haven’t plenty to say about that”.
*If it doesn’t stop then really you have to reduce contact. Prioritise your Ds. If anyone questions why you can tell them you refuse to allow him to continue to be rude to your child. He was given a choice to act like an adult but has chosen to continue being abusive.

I do think you have to be prepared to lower contact significantly. I wouldn’t have someone talking to my child like this.

I have plans for when I see my DB next. That’s basically “feel free to comment on my parenting, but each time you do I’ll give you one of my thoughts on your parenting too. So choose if you want to go down that route or not”. Sadly his parenting has been awful. Has never put his own child to bed, his own child chose to have no contact for 6 months of this year. I don’t want to comment on that, but I will if it comes to it. I am happy to loose contact with him though rather than put up with his shit. It’s more difficult if you aren’t prepared to have no contact.

I would call it out , but laughing - seeing as bil is “just joking”
I would say “tell uncle ? He is being an idiot” and laugh. “Ignore uncle ?, you know he is a thick knob head” “ uncle ? Is just jealous darling, because you are more intelligent than him - this is his way of trying to look good” then all laugh together in a group to show your solidarity.

Oi that's enough.

Bil does it make you feel all big and manly bullying a dc? Stare him out....

Just say "I appreciate it must be really difficult to see [your son's name] being such a confident, polite and smart boy, whilst your own both have special needs. But please don't take your frustrations out on him".
In front of your son.

Every time he does it again ask "what did you mean by this?" "Why would you say that?" "Would you appreciate if similar jokes were made at the expense of your children?"

WRT FIL dying, you might be able to use that to your advantage.

"You are doing it again. Don't speak about ds like that BIL. Especially with FiL being so poorly - this is not the time for your 'jokes'."

When he offers up a bitter gem of criticism, calmly ask him to repeat it.
"What was that? I didn't hear you."
Watch as he either has to say it again, bringing stark attention to his rudeness OR he has to dismiss it as "nothing...nothing" because he knows it's going to make him look like the bellend he is.
Rinse and repeat.

You can't just sit by and ignore it. Really your dh should say something every time. If he doesn't, and I were you, I'd be saying something. He's verbally bullying your son and I think.yoj are both letting him. Don't. Who cares about an atmosphere. Outside of this situation I wouldn't see them again at all.

My DH has spoken to BIL about it but he gets all defensive and starts huffing and puffing and saying he's just joking. But he keeps on doing it and it's clearly not a joke and has a malicious undertone.

No one who is 'just joking' keeps joking when their jokes hurt someone. Might be worth pointing that out to him because it shows he is doing it to hurt a child, not because it is funny.

Otherwise, regardless of family upset, I would be telling him to shut up each time. I'd do my best to keep my cool but I would be firm about telling him to pick on someone his own size.

No the endless bullying her son has taken without a single adult considering him over BIL should be enough but its not is it?

So if her young child can take a it I'm sure OP can suck up a bit of truth.

Or say "no, we don't 'take' that sense of humour, you're right. They're not kind jokes. But hey, if that's your sense of humour, and they're harmless jokes, why not make them about your own sons - why did you put a condom on their head, oh that's a hat? Sorry just looked similar"