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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

covert narcissism - any examples?

146 replies

Offwiththecircus · 19/12/2023 16:32

Yes I realise that there is a tendency these days to label things, which maybe don't quite fit into boxes, but wondering if a certain ex may have been a covert narcissist.

Anyone got any real life examples of behaviours/e;pisodes which would qualify as such?

Am male by the way. Maybe this declaration will inhibit replies - we'll see.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 19/12/2023 17:10

Why are you spending your time diagnosing your ex? It's not a dig, it's a genuine question. How will it help you to find out that she is/isn't a narcissist?

MeltWithYou · 19/12/2023 18:23

My "favourite" is picking a fight / silent treatment when travelling to a family event or meetup with friends. Causing a massive atmosphere and killing your mood. They then walk into said event like the soul of the party leaving you beaten and deflated so everyone can wonder what the heck is wrong with YOU.

MeltWithYou · 19/12/2023 18:27

Oh and on parting ways making sure they always look the hero (a job in the emergency services really helps here) and let the other parents know how awful you are.
You then have to face them all for several more years doing the school run with them looking at you like you are the devil incarnate despite you being a victim in the whole sorry story.

MeltWithYou · 19/12/2023 18:29

Watchkeys · 19/12/2023 17:10

Why are you spending your time diagnosing your ex? It's not a dig, it's a genuine question. How will it help you to find out that she is/isn't a narcissist?

It might well be because it helps you come to terms with the whole damn thing when they have you doubting your own sanity.

semideponent · 19/12/2023 18:36

Never genuinely apologising. Leaving you to make all the decisions and then having a go at you if you decisions don't work out.

Watchkeys · 19/12/2023 18:38

MeltWithYou · 19/12/2023 18:29

It might well be because it helps you come to terms with the whole damn thing when they have you doubting your own sanity.

Perhaps OP is capable of answering for himself, especially as it's a question about his own feelings.

MeltWithYou · 19/12/2023 18:40

Ah bless you. I was under the impression this was a discussion forum as I was offering my take. Hence "maybe". Not trying to answer for them.

Lovelynames123 · 19/12/2023 18:53

They're clever, really fucking clever. I'd been in a relationship with a narcissist before, thought I'd learned some lessons then was totally taken in by a covert narcissist who was supposed to be a close friend

  • Tell different people slightly different versions of an event that makes them look like the hero and you the buddy

  • Acts like a helpful go between in disputes but are actually initial cause of the disputes

  • Generally super helpful, insisting on it, then told people they were forced to do extra/more

  • told stories about how wonderful people said they were, tripped herself up when used certain phrases that certain people would never ever use

  • So, so 2 faced, initiated conversations about people and if you so much as nod, straight to the person to tell them what you've been saying.

  • very keen on the I'm so kind, do anything for anyone narrative, especially on social media

  • not many close friends in reality, but lots of sycophantic fb followers who have swallowed the bullshit

For me, no retaliation, and living my own life well is the best course of action. These people have a screw loose, you cannot reason with them and you can never get to the truth

Watchkeys · 19/12/2023 18:53

Ah bless you. I was under the impression

How patronising.

Sorry, OP. Back to you.

MeltWithYou · 19/12/2023 18:56

As was yours 😉

icelolly12 · 19/12/2023 20:26

Did 'nice' things such as volunteered at homeless charity on Christmas Day (for the sole purpose of telling everybody about it/announcing on Facebook for likes and so everybody would say how kind he was)

Played the victim, nothing was his fault. He would have a sad puppy dog look that would make people including myself feel sorry for him until I realised his version of events were basically made up

Attention seeking but not in a show off way like look at my nice car, but more look at this creative project I've done, look at this nice thing I've done for someone, look at me, me, me, me and was so obsessed with curating his image to looking like a nice guy (but he was anything but underneath the surface)

Once I got to know him, I thought he'd be a kind, interesting individual and was disappointed to find out, all he cared about was his own self promotion. He cared nothing for anybody else, was incapable of listening (apart from in the love bombing phase which was intense) and was so me, me, me. It was incredibly draining.

Held grudges against people, e.g. work colleagues who may have done something most reasonable people would find minor, e.g. disagreed with something he said in a work meeting but he hated these people years later, and got visibly angry talking about them.

Liked to tell everyone and I mean everyone about how depressed he has been in the past- including people he literally had just met, all for sympathy- very woe is me.

I could go on and on, but he was exhausting and it was quite traumatic untagling what had gone on, as on the surface he seemed a wonderful kind and genuine man. But he was actually soooo narcisistic and cared so mcuh about preserving his very highly curated appearance online and offline.

bethepeace · 19/12/2023 20:37

Always always being the person who helped others, right there in the centre of it all helping, listening, 'serving' others while all the time making sure everyone knew about it and lapping up all the praise. It was always about him.

Love bombing.

Describing himself as the 'victim' whenever anyone called him out - even when his actual abuse of someone came to light, he was still the victim, even when under police investigation!

bethepeace · 19/12/2023 20:39

Oh and actually never ever properly listening or showing any real empathy - all those people he was supposedly 'helping' where either so vulnerable they didn't notice his lack of empathy or actually he wasn't helping them at all, he just pretended he was!

Coolstorysis · 19/12/2023 20:47

Fleeing immediately if you try to bring up a reasonable concern.

Weird gish gallop conversations which don't make sense, whenever you bring up a salient point, they will just endlessly waffle on bringing up random crap. I was once on a phone call with ex when I had left him where he waffled for an hour, I said "oh right" or "ye" didn't contribute at all, on he went. There is no such thing as a constructive conversation. Zero point in engaging.

Sly looks, dupers delight, meanness.

givethedoggerbone · 19/12/2023 22:32

I had a close friend who I would put in this category and for me I would say she was incredibly grandiose and clearly thought she was superior to me but it would slip out in small ways when she didn't mean it to.

Even things like body language and small comments. I remember when we were students being out in a nightclub and getting some male attention, one of the pair of friends was ostensibly more attractive than the other and she said "and YOU pulled that one" almost in disbelief because obviously she thought she was vastly superior to me but kept it unsaid.

Very insidious and difficult to deal with.

onceuponasnowflake · 19/12/2023 23:07

Generally super helpful, insisting on it, then told people they were forced to do extra/more
*
This is one of the biggest tells. So obvious once you're out of the friendship but at the time you're kind of bullied into them helping you, difficult to articulate.

I would add they always seem to attach themselves to 3D people, people who have something about them, usually kind natured people who struggle to say no. They'll emulate the person they've leeched into and become their personality. They'll copy things you like, things you do even language you use and pass it off as their own. Mirroring. It's as if they're 2D, devoid of self and a personality so they steal parts of other people. They become whomever they're targeting.

They're very full on, always wanting to spend time with you. Financially illiterate. Often have substance abuse problems or an addiction of some kind. They lie, a lot, even about the most mundane things, spend enough time around them and they'll start forgetting their lies, that's how you catch them out.

Absolute oddballs. Very dangerous individuals.

Offwiththecircus · 20/12/2023 09:11

Watchkeys · 19/12/2023 17:10

Why are you spending your time diagnosing your ex? It's not a dig, it's a genuine question. How will it help you to find out that she is/isn't a narcissist?

a slightly odd question - this is a forum, folks discuss things, ask things, this is the relationship bit so questions about relationships/people. Some interesting insightful folk on here so input from them, with their various life experiences, may well it seems offer some insight. It may help me make sense of certain things. And of course be interesting to others.

OP posts:
Offwiththecircus · 20/12/2023 09:14

MeltWithYou · 19/12/2023 18:23

My "favourite" is picking a fight / silent treatment when travelling to a family event or meetup with friends. Causing a massive atmosphere and killing your mood. They then walk into said event like the soul of the party leaving you beaten and deflated so everyone can wonder what the heck is wrong with YOU.

thanks - whatever the label for that sort of behaviour, it definitely rings a bell. The talent for starting arguments out of apparently nothing was incredible - after the event I could never figure out where they had come from, but she sure had a talent for sucking me in. Ditto silent treatment.

OP posts:
Offwiththecircus · 20/12/2023 09:18

Watchkeys · 19/12/2023 18:38

Perhaps OP is capable of answering for himself, especially as it's a question about his own feelings.

No, it's a question about someone else's behaviour, characteristics. You do seem to have an odd idea of forums - folks know the answer to stuff they are asking, so why ask a forum? Leave tumbleweed to blow through said forum?

OP posts:
SavBlancTonight · 20/12/2023 09:19

Sulking and silent treatment.

Mostly though, any action (uncluding silent treatment and sulking) that allows them to play victim and abdicate any responsibility. I think this is key because also, covert narcissists are absolutely brilliant at DARVO and will accuse their victim of being the narcissist, abusive etc. But when you look in from the outside the difference is clear - the victim is confused, sometimes angry, often doing a million things to try improve/apologise. The actual narcissist is sitting there crying about how hard it is to be treated this way etc etc.

They never ever take responsibility for anything.

Offwiththecircus · 20/12/2023 09:21

Watchkeys · 19/12/2023 18:53

Ah bless you. I was under the impression

How patronising.

Sorry, OP. Back to you.

er still here.
Some interesting replies so far, feel free to post something on topic. Yep, the other person was right - trying to make sense of certain things.

OP posts:
Offwiththecircus · 20/12/2023 09:28

givethedoggerbone · 19/12/2023 22:32

I had a close friend who I would put in this category and for me I would say she was incredibly grandiose and clearly thought she was superior to me but it would slip out in small ways when she didn't mean it to.

Even things like body language and small comments. I remember when we were students being out in a nightclub and getting some male attention, one of the pair of friends was ostensibly more attractive than the other and she said "and YOU pulled that one" almost in disbelief because obviously she thought she was vastly superior to me but kept it unsaid.

Very insidious and difficult to deal with.

you say grandiose. Isn't that different, the more obvious "grandioise narcissism"? Easier to spot and what folks generally think of as narcissism. Have only learned about the "covert" variant more recently - it has another name I think which I have forgotten. The ex definitely wasn't grandioise, very good looking (in my opinion) as she was - if anything tended to come across usually/very often as umble/shy/certain lack of assertivenes (latter in itself caused issues)

OP posts:
MumLass · 20/12/2023 09:34

I was married to one, and I understand why you are reflecting on your past relationship as it messes with your head.
My ex would sulk, give me the silent treatment to the point I was begging to know what was wrong and apologising when I didn't even know what I'd done to upset him.
He also ruined so many special moments, holidays etc. with sulks about goodness knows what.
I lived on eggshells as I was so scared of triggering his anger/rage/sulking.

Lack of empathy is another one. He could sit and watch my cry, being desperately unhappy. He would look at me in complete disgust and offer nothing, no support, not even a hug.

itsmyp4rty · 20/12/2023 09:42

Lies more easy than telling the truth - absolutely no authenticity and no real sense of 'self' so a real chameleon, being what they thought other people wanted them to be in that moment. A complete people pleaser as 'looking good' was always very, very important. Never ever openly angry, never a raised voice, never jealous - negative emotions (and illness) all seen as weakness. Instead extremely passive aggressive. Sulky, silent treatment, always the victim. Never said sorry, completely unable to be responsible for anything, nothing ever their fault. Perfectionist at work.

Used me as a scapegoat for everything, everything that had happened in their life was my fault, from us getting married to them not getting a job in London - I had absolutely no idea at the time as they were saying the complete opposite to me. The other big thing was always needing attention, anyone who they thought was attractive and was in anyway positive towards them they would become obsessed with and be constantly trying to talk to them - they would take any small positive interaction as that person thinking they were amazing. So - huge ego that needed to be constantly fed because no genuine self esteem.

Very shallow, secretly wanted a trophy wife, an impressive house, expensive car, trendy clothes, thought these things were the key to being happy. Very, very selfish, everything done for their own gain - this wasn't obvious though because they did so many things to make themselves look like they were a nice person. No genuine empathy and no remorse. Found it very easy to cut people out of their life without a second thought if they were no longer useful.

25 years till I found out the truth. I thought I was the problem for much of that, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

itsmyp4rty · 20/12/2023 09:44

Vulnerable narcissist is the other name for it OP. Funnily enough it was on here that I first heard of it.