covert narcissism - any examples?

[Offwiththecircus]

Yes I realise that there is a tendency these days to label things, which maybe don't quite fit into boxes, but wondering if a certain ex may have been a covert narcissist.

Anyone got any real life examples of behaviours/e;pisodes which would qualify as such?

Am male by the way. Maybe this declaration will inhibit replies - we'll see.

My ex did this.

Said he wouldn't come on holiday once until I was leaving on a taxi with our daughter. He came. Caused fucking murder and ruined it. Absolute cunt

Ruining every single special occasion but leaving you wondering what you have actually did to cause the argument.

Claiming you're domestically abusive to them.

Telling you that you are mental or need to see a "shrink"

Not wanting you to go out but to invite people over instead.

Gaslighting you to the point you believe you need help.

My personal favourite, going off for several days at a time and blocking you on everything.

When you get to the family court with a narcissist, that's definitely an eye opener. Complete DARVO tactics.

It really is quite something.

Early on I think it's feeling like you've met literally the best person ever.

I was dating someone who within a few dates was making a list of notes in his phone of things I'd mentioned I liked - activities, foods, shows. He planned all the dates. I was so flattered. Met his entire circle within weeks - wow someone who's finally taking me seriously! Talks of holidays and moving in (in the future). So so complimentary.

It was all perfect - until it wasn't. The moment I put my toe out of line the mask slipped. Didn't care one jot about my emotions as soon as I wasn't this perfect shiny person to him. The moment

If it feels like you're in a movie or a play, that's likely exactly what's happening - you're a character. They're enacting what they think a relationship should be. The moment you no longer act like the character they've created, by having emotions or calling them out, they'll discard you. My advice to anyone would be to let them, because the moment you allow them back after that first discard they have all the cards

👆is spot on. You have to live up to what you’re meant to be.
Last words from ex were ‘Speak well of me’…

Hi, @Newbie1011 , many apologies for the late reply.

I had come back to the UK to organise legal stuff for the wedding over there. I was only supposed to be back for a week with a return flight booked and I was in contact with her several times a day.

Despite all this, during a phonecall one evening she went ballistic because I'd had the sheer audacity to see some friends while I was back. She insisted that I was enjoying myself too much back home and that I had no intentions of flying back to her. It was bewildering.

After a few more minutes of being abused down the phone I simply told her that I was no longer prepared to let her speak to me like that and I put the phone down on her.

In the immediate aftermath I was confused and upset. It was only after I trawled the web for answers that I finally understood it all - she's a covert narcissist. I'll forever be relieved that I got out when I did.

Befriending people close to you and being overly generous, kind, nice to be around but being the absolute opposite to you. That way if you ever disclosed they were u kind, others would think you're the liar.

This has shocked me. Each and every word of this post could be what I experience daily.

The constant victim mode, the silent treatment randomly. Me begging what I’ve done wrong to be then told I’m ‘getting at him’. Then me feeling confused and bewildered, to be told I’m treating him like shit or ‘all over the place’.
If I cry, I get laughed at. No comfort. Ever.
He relates anything back to him. How it affects him and whether ‘he’s ok’ or not. Sod everyone else.

There’s never ever any empathy or love shown. He jumps into bed every night so that I get left with turning all the lights off. It sounds silly but I long for it to be the other way round. Have told him this heaps. Stupid things. But it’s the care I crave.

Playing the victim until they feel they will get outwitted. Then the abuse escalates in order to elevate your vulnerability. Classic. My husband does this regularly to me. Holidays are always hell. The intensity is huge. Factor in tiredness and alcohol too. Evil mix of narcassistic fuel

catching up
@Coolstorysis
>>Sly looks, dupers delight, meanness.

Can I ask what "dupers delight" is?

@DagenhamDanny
sounds like you had a really close shave there.
A fair amount of your posts ring a lot of bells.
My ex was also foriegn+ - am now convinced that in the early stages of the relationship at least she found the language issue/possible language issue very helpful - perfect cover for passive aggression, obstructing, pretending that certain things had never been discussed/agreed. Included, as per an example above from another poster, leaving me to arrange pretty much everything then shouting to the heavens when something didn't satisfy her - sending the message that I had somehow tricked her/we hadn't agreed to do whatever. But we had of course.
Even once the language couldn't possibly be a real issue any more, the same traits continued.

• fear not (for me maybe) - it can't possibly be the same person.

By the by - I think, as has been hinted above, there was quite probably more than probably a relevant family background to this.

It can help with future relationships and dating.

No. Learning about a person you are not going to be having a relationship with doesn't help any future relationship. What helps is learning about yourself, and your responses to be treated the way they treated you. Not 'naming the problem the ex has'. So, it's 'When he did xyz and it made me feel shit, how did I respond and why?' rather than 'When he did xyz and it made me feel shit, why did he do it? What's going on with him?'

It doesn't help any future relationship of OP's, to know why her ex did what he did. Focussing on his reasons and motivations is a waste of her time.

Of course it does. It's establishing a pattern. It's recognizing what we're attracted to and why. If you don't know what went wrong how you you analyze it and your part in it? There's so many ways understanding the past helps the future. It can also just relieve the sufferer knowing they weren't crazy, or that they weren't at fault, etc. Gaslighting is usually built in to a relationship with a narcissist. I could go on. Too much to list really.

I can assure you that it does help. And beyond what you might term "romantic relationships" - friends/potential friends, work colleagues. People in general. I must say that your posts on this thread more than bemuse me. There are a lot of thread starts under relationships - do you hop on all of them to say that they are a waste of time/no point the OP thinking about the other players in a situation?
I stress again (in case I didn't make it clear )that I don't consider that the ex fits neatly into a box labelled "covert narcissist" and that this totally defines their character, but I have started to feel that there were definite definite traits. The subject of "covert narcissism" seems to be particularly beneficial to discuss as it is more hidden/under the surface than certain other things.
Happy christmas/discussions/chats around the christmas table.
I may post more musings when have read through other nice folks' posts.

Hope you learn everything you need to know about him, @Offwiththecircus

It will be irrelevant to any further relationships, and whether you know it or not, you are wasting your time 'working out your ex', unless your ex is what matters here.

My posts bemuse you because you think it's a good idea to focus on him and his traits. Ask yourself why that is.

If you don't know what went wrong how you you analyze it and your part in it

By looking at yourself, and your responses to his, and others' behaviour. Not by looking into why he/others do what they do, and not by naming their traits.

Gaslighting is usually built in to a relationship with a narcissist

Yes. So look into your responses to people making you feel that your truth isn't real. You don't need to label the behaviour or the person, and you don't need to understand their motivations. I'm not saying 'don't look at what he did', I'm saying 'look at how you responded to what he did'. Your own behaviour is what saves you from future poor relationships. Your own willingness to walk away from people who make you feel bad, regardless of why or how they do it. Unless you think that you have the power to simply 'not meet' any further hurtful people, because you've worked out precisely what your ex boyfriend did, and why he did it.

I think its very hard to get closure after some relationships. And trying to understand the behaviour, and even more the red flags that you didn't notice or ignored at the beginning, is perfectly normal and a way to get closure of a sort.

Whether your ex was or wasn't a narcissist probably isn't important but understanding those character traits and how you responded is useful.

The victim mentality is real so a lot of these types of personalities leave you with a sense of guilt or questioning, "was that my fault".

Op, that is where being more specific can be helpful because then people on here may reassure you re specific actions.

I think its very hard to get closure after some relationships

The closure comes not when you finally 'work them out', but when you realise that you neither need nor want to work them out. It doesn't matter what/who they are.

Learning about narcissism, their tricks and techniques, and what it does to the person on the receiving end is a huge help when trying to recover from narcissistic abuse. Being in a relationship with a covert narc is like sticking your head in a blender. I've spent years unpicking what ex dp did to me and learning and talking about narcissism has made me stronger and able to successfully deal with him going forward for dc's sake.

My narc is the most humble, polite person you could ever meet. Comes across as caring and sensitive, says all the right words and phrases to make you think he's emotionally intelligent. Eventually, the mask slips and you realise the actions don't match the words. The negativity and criticisms begin and it's like a slow drip of poison in your ear. "I don't like your friend, the meal was good but not what I was expecting, you didn't do that properly, etc". He's ALWAYS the victim. He currently doesn't pay child maintenance, or bother to see his kids more than once a month, but firmly believes he is the victim. He hates anyone else having any form of success or good luck and gets incredibly jealous. Will tear down everyone around him (in secret) and talk behind their back just moments after smiling in their face.

I honestly think he sees the people around him as resources rather than actual people with thoughts and feelings. He picks his friends according to what they can offer him, money, status, a place to stay, or a captive audience. When someone stops being useful they get discarded. He can redirect and waffle on better than Boris Johnson in a conversation so can never be held accountable for his actions. He'll blind you with bullshit so you end up forgetting what your initial point was.

Narcissists hate themselves and everyone around them. They can roleplay a caring spouse, parent, or friend, but they are just scheming to get want they want from the person. I don't think they are truly capable of love or empathy. It must be a horrible way to live.

My mother is the narc

I was a skint single parent with very little money

She made sure she took what little I had,spent it on herself/my brothers and would make it known to everyone that she was supporting 'little old sponger me' and wasn't she an amazing person for paying for xyz when I couldn't afford to (she didn't pay for anything-we went without)

She would only bother with the dc if others could see her doing it-bit pointless having her grandchildren if she wasn't being admired for 'helping' me out

I remember my son breaking his arm once and her refusing to have the others so I could take him to hospital

They kept him In overnight,so she rocked up the following morning (with 5 of her friends) to pick him up (the hospital refused to let him go as I hadn't ok'ed it) and I was the worst person in the world for not telling the hospital know (I didn't know!and was on my way to pick him up myself)

She would get me to run endless errands for her-im talking hours everyday but claim I did nothing for her-she was always helping me out after I'd fucked up again (she did nothing)

She seemed to think my dc where hers-i was just there to feed them and keep them alive

She tried to choose everything-schools,nursery,where I bought their shoes,what I fed them,what treats they where allowed to have,what they watched on tv-everything

I stepped out of line-god help me-its like she was parenting against me at every turn-the kids didn't matter as long as she got her way and then it was all my fault if it ended badly

Every single mistake I ever made was dangled over my head in a 'you did that-ive had to pick up the pieces' but anything my brothers did,didn't happen

She meddled in every friendship/relationship I had-shit stirring and gossiping to make me look bad-i did lost some friends/partners-but any boyfriends where as narc as she was-i couldn't see the red flags as they weren't to me-they where my normal

I walked away-and the smear campaign started

She's a perfect mother-im the bad dd and no matter what happened she is the hero in the story she's telling at the time

I ignore her and she hates it so the stories get bigger and bigger

Am male Watchkeys as I said in the opening post.
By spotting certain traits, if at a certain level, I will of course modify my reactions to/interface with some people in the future. So that's good.
Already insights gained from aspects of ex, albeit some fair time later, have helped me in a relationship with a family member. Not going NC with them of course, not possible, but stops me being dragged down certain rabbit holes.
Live and learn as they say.
Live and learn from experience, thinking about things, talking to people about this and that, listening to other people, nattering to friendly folk on forums for that matter.
Of course, as to what lies behind the trait of covert narcissism, its "causes", little point in pondering. My comment about family background upthread in response to dagenhamdanny was simply an aid to spotting things - not analysing. I am not a professional minddoctor, just someone navigating through life. Part of that navigating involves swerving folks who seem to be extreme examples of certain things.

Part of that navigating involves swerving folks who seem to be extreme examples of certain things

This is the error I'm pointing out. The 'certain things' error. You don't need a 'certain thing' label in order to know that someone's behaviour makes you feel bad. Have a look at what your ex did, and your emotional responses that made you stay. That's what to analyse.

If your current method was working, you wouldn't be here, because you wouldn't care what she was or why she did what she did. I've been where you are, and thought that all the 'working out the behaviour/labels' was helping me, too. It took me AGES! What a waste of my time! Now I know loads of stuff about narcissism, and about abuse, and about how victims of this stuff become victims, why I was susceptible, how insidiously it happened etc etc, and none of it is of any use. The only useful thing I learned came when I got sick of all the analysing, and spending my life posting on forums to talk about my ex: if someone makes me feel shit, I will tell them, and state my boundaries. If they keep doing it, knowing they're hurting me, I will leave them.

It's not about my ex, it's about me.

Sorry for mixing up your sexes, @Offwiththecircus I'm on a few threads at once and got mixed up. My apologies.

I think a lot of these people think they want a relationship but actually don't have room for one because they are already in an engrossing one with themselves. I've met people with poor selfish behaviour but wouldn't say they were narcs- the only one I've met who am 100% sure was is female, interpreted every casual comment in a general conversation as being about her- her eyes glazed over in any conversation if it didn't revolve round her, very odd young woman , beautiful too

I think my closest friend is in the position of being with a narcissist. She’s been with him 8 years and from the outside you would think they were the perfect couple. However, her mental health isn’t great these days and it’s affecting her physical health now

The last time we arranged to meet up, he told her in the afternoon (we were meeting in the evening) that he had an appointment and she couldn’t go out and he insisted he had told her weeks ago (he hadn’t). She told me that she came downstairs and the kitchen was covered in dog poo and he had left it for her to clean up. She doesn’t have any hobbies of her own and ends up having to take up his hobbies.

She told me she constantly walks on eggshells to avoid conflicts and arguments. He plays the victim and has every ailment and recently quit his job as he said he couldn’t work for his boss anymore. She earns the most money so was happy to go with this in the short term but he has no interest in finding work. She comes home and has to do all the cooking and cleaning. He’s also phoning her all the time at work. She had a difficult childhood with her mother so I think she’s co-dependent.

She won’t say anything is wrong but I read between the lines and think she’s definitely in a very toxic relationship

Sorry for being random, I really need people to do my anonymous survey it's about privacy in abusive relationships 🤓Survey Link