covert narcissism - any examples?

[Offwiththecircus]

Yes I realise that there is a tendency these days to label things, which maybe don't quite fit into boxes, but wondering if a certain ex may have been a covert narcissist.

Anyone got any real life examples of behaviours/e;pisodes which would qualify as such?

Am male by the way. Maybe this declaration will inhibit replies - we'll see.

ah thanks - can't remember where I first heard of it - it did seem to help explain some pretty mind bending things coming from someone who no one would see as the "traditional" narcissist. My defences against the more conventional type pretty good I think, have always tended to shy away from such folk.

This is an important one. Do you know someone accusing somebody else of being a narcissist? That's a sure fire way to tell they themselves are a covert narc putting themselves in the 'victim' position. Meanwhile, the actual victim goes underground and tries to make sense of what happened. It's a real head fuck and can ruin the real victim's perception of reality for a long time/for life.

They come across as obtuse too, a bit like your replies on this thread, OP. Hmm.

Just to clarify here then. As you mention "sure fire"... If you say anything you are definitely the narcissist and suffering in silence is really the only genuine way to handle it?

someone accusing somebody else of being a narcissist? That's a sure fire way to tell they themselves are a covert narc

Sorry, @onceuponasnowflake , so, I split up with my ex due to recognising narcissism. I said so. That is a sure fire way to diagnose me as a narcissist?

Are you accusing the OP of being a narcissist? Surely, by your own definition that makes you the narcissist? You can see how you can get stuck in a loop here?

With this I certainly agree with you. This is a very dangerous "sure fire" assumption.

Hi, @Offwiththecircus , my ex-fiancée is a covert narcissist. Unfortunately, it's one of those things that you only really discover when you've been with them for a certain amount of time. We actually met on a dating site and she lived not only in a different country but on a different continent.

Anyway, after several months of video calling on WhatsApp I went over there. All was rosy to begin with but after a while she became increasingly volatile to completely innocuous things I said, she would fly off the handle to the most ridiculous things to the point where I was walking on egg shells every time I opened my mouth. It was quite common for her to throw objects across the room, including her engagement ring and mobile phone, if I ever said the 'wrong' thing.

I always tried to treat her like a queen, yet she would look for the tiniest of sticks to beat me with. If I was doing a job in the house, for example, she would find a way of saying I'd done it wrong and rectify it herself. And, nothing was ever her fault, she would always find a way of deflecting the blame to others.

Also, her job involved meeting families, often poor. She made a very special effort to buy the children of one particular family lots of Christmas gifts. Initially I thought it was a very kind gesture, if a little over the top. I now realise that it was a typical action of a covert narcissist, trying to make people think she was just wanting to help them when in reality she just wanted them to think she was wonderfully kind and considerate.

Everything was about her and her feelings, she really couldn't have cared less about me or anyone else, for that matter. She was toxic and it was exhausting. I'm well rid.

always being so friendly to my workplace when he's had to pop in there so no one can imagine how he is at home.
ditto with my family
dropping everything to help a rando so he looks great but telling you "do it yourself" or just not even replying when wife asks for help
man-flirting with school dads but not being interested in actual social interaction especially with his own family
having a great car- from work- but living in a shithole coz no one sees
literally saying "I am lovely to you" when I'm crying for support
being a great 'sport-dad' when it's visible but ignoring other children's needs
always promises vague unspecified nice plans ie holiday/Christmas/DIY in public so looks good put cannot be pinned down in private then nothing materialises
asserting that "I will look after us" but consistently failing to meet basic needs
constantly saying "it's fine" about anything and everything despite evidence to the contrary
dining out on his job title so that no one in my family/friends can imagine he's wasn't providing for us and wasn't a great guy
Etc etc

My ex-fiancée constantly went on about how she'd suffered all her life at the hands of her narcisstic parents and sister. I was extremely sympathetic until I realised that things weren't quite as she made them out to be.

And there are several traits to covert narcissism, so merely recognising that someone is a narcissist does NOT automatically make them a narcissist too.

Being a visibly nice person to friends etc but keeping them at arms length. Their family/close relationships are the one to look carefully at. I find narcissists are often 'popular' because people don't know the real them.

Playing the victim. Making everything about them.

Using people when they want them.

Good point! It's also passive aggressive, which is a narcissistic trait.

Oh no. Now I'm doing it. ANYBODY WHO POSTS ON THE THREAD IS A SURE-FIRE NARCISSIST!!

Someone in dhs family has many narcissistic traits, it wasn’t until recently I came across what a covert narcissist is and this person fits the bill entirely. It’s why we have limited contact & why our kids don’t really have a relationship with her.

Passive aggressive, always the victim (even when she has caused the issue)
likes to be centre of attention
If anyone tells her that what she said/did upset them, she will turn it around so she is the one upset and hard done by. Will never say sorry directly, it’s more “well, I’m sorry you were upset” not “I’m sorry I upset you”
Big ego, poor self awareness, very selfish, everything revolves around them (in their world) every conversation goes back to them.
They might ask “oh how is your family” which you think is a normal interaction, I usually get one sentence out before they will say “ oh I know, me too, I know all about that, I had to go to the doctors the other day blah blah”
very envious - even of their own children (if a women , she will be especially jealous of her daughter)
family members often step on egg shells as he/she will get upset very easily and it’s not worth the hassle ( so they end up getting away with crappy behaviour for years)
Uses people when they need them, they don’t have many friends.
materialistic
Will use emotional blackmail, more so on younger members of the family, who are more susceptible.

They are not good people.

I was shown it in different forms so I am going to kind of explain in a different way from how I saw it.

Control is their first priority. While money is their main priority it is a way to control someone. They don't treat you as a person but as a possession. Nothing that you believe is yours is untouchable to them. They believe they own it all. Treating you as an object. I gave you xyz so you owe me. Some may try to use fear to do it too.

Gaslighting. They attempt to change the narrative to make it fit theirs. They are the victim and you are the one who are in the wrong. Even when they violated your boundaries or went against you for no reason.

Can come in different forms. Work, School, relationships (family, friends, boyfriend/girlfriend, wife/husband, etc).

Watch HG Tudor on YouTube. It will explain everything

XH’s response to any criticism was ‘I can’t do anything right’. It was impossible to raise any concerns or issues when he came back with that. It automatically implied that I was too critical, that he tried so hard and I was never pleased! He would fish for compliments in a negative way ‘oh I’m rubbish at cooking’ just so you’d say ‘No you’re great!’. He’d say about how he did so much for other people and never put himself first… 🤔

It is true to a certain extent that narcissists can recognise it in others. It often runs in families too. But if you find yourself thinking ‘Am I narcissistic? Then by default, you’re not!’.

i found it incredibly helpful to realise XH is a covert narcissist. It helped me understand why he behaves as he does..how he could move on so quickly..it’s also helped me learn how to parent our DD support her as she deals with his behaviour. I really rate Caroline Strawson for understanding narcissistic abuse and learning to move forwards.

I had a male relative who was sadly in a relationship with one of these OP. Had to go NC with them both as she was utterly toxic and he couldn’t see it.

I was sad to lose him but it was the best decision for me and my family as the constant conflict was soul destroying.

I’d never met someone like her before and only came across the term when trying to seek explanations for her behaviour patterns. But having been through it for years I am now absolutely convinced this is what she was/ is.

With covert narcissists the key is extremely low self esteem which makes them constantly seek attention and validation- the grandiosity is more subtle but it’s still there, it is the flip side of this insecurity (fuelled by a lack of a true sense of who they are) which in reality eats them up inside.

For the person I knew she actually periodically got her partner to fund and facilitate artistic ‘performances’ with her at the centre in order for her to get the validation she needed. It was always presented in a humble sort of way but in reality - and looking back - the grandiosity/ delusions of grandeur part was definitely there

Other more general traits -

Never genuinely apologising or accepting responsibility for own behaviour

Huge preoccupation with how they’d been allegedly ill treated by others

Weaponised use of ‘therapy speak’ to invent imagined slights by people they were threatened by - especially anyone else their partner was close to

Found it very challenging to hear about others’ achievements and didn’t show much interest in asking about other people on social occasions, spoke about themselves a lot

Constantly inventing ways in which partner had wronged them…. Leaving partner constantly on edge wondering when they’d next be angry with them

Few really close friends and a record of difficult/ failed relationships including professional, romantic and platonic.

Terrible at listening

Always the victim

Personal vanity - very interested in hair, clothes etc

hope this helps

This perfectly describes my ex-fiancée.

Yes.

I meant to say grandiose, and I'm aware it's more associated with your common or garden narcissist.

But with my friend she was very, very self-important but would conceal it because she understood it wasn't socially acceptable then it would leak out in conceited little admissions.

Like, my friend went to Oxford Uni, talking about her SIL described as having "ONLY gone to a red brick university" then did a sort of, sort of realising her audience (red brick Uni me) kind of pretended she hadn't implied that she was superior.

But she really, really did think that she was superior to pretty much everyone.

That's think in the cognitive sense, of course.

One the inside she was quivering mass of low self-esteem as all narcs are.

Sorry, but...:

@DagenhamDanny thats so interesting. The accounts on this thread all feel really, chillingly familiar to me too. It’s quite validating of my decision to go NC to read them. How did you work out what was going on/ manage to break out? How long did it take you? Sometimes I live in hope that my male relative might ditch her and come to his senses but other times it feels hopeless. He doesn’t speak to anyone in the family anymore because of her including his own (adult) kids who have had enough.

Constantly posting on social media about deeply personal things is a major red flag. No interest in real advice or support when offered, just an insatiable need for attention (normal people don’t gain any comfort from people essentially being guilted into offering platitudes). Always the victim of something or someone. Oh, and posts thanking specific friends / groups of friends for something which are really aimed at the one person they left out who they don’t feel has been giving them enough attention. Every word of every post meticulously worded to have the right effect on their intended target. Unfriending people who fail to supply them with attention. Facebook is generally a pretty good place to start if you’re wondering about someone!

It sounds more like echoism to me. I just came across this term.

obtuse how? Perfectly straight question. Have replied a bit - clearly I don't post everything on the thoughts that wander through my mind on the topic as that would be kind of pointless - am not here to broadcast any particular expertise but to listen/learn from others. and exchange perceptions. Similarly I clearly don't post lots of specific specific details for reasons of basic privacy/security for both parties. So my replies are obtuse how? Signifying what, if anything? No "hmms" needed but straight informative answers more than welcome.

@MumLass
>>>My ex would sulk, give me the silent treatment to the point I was begging to know what was wrong and apologising when I didn't even know what I'd done to upset him.

I would get told "if you cared you'd know what it was". Still no answer. In truth after a while wondered if she even knew what the issue was, or could put into words which made any sense. The apology thing is interesting - may post more on when have got my head round things.