covert narcissism - any examples?

[Offwiththecircus]

Yes I realise that there is a tendency these days to label things, which maybe don't quite fit into boxes, but wondering if a certain ex may have been a covert narcissist.

Anyone got any real life examples of behaviours/e;pisodes which would qualify as such?

Am male by the way. Maybe this declaration will inhibit replies - we'll see.

:)
thanks - this is the sort of common sense take I come on here for.

@Happyphant
>>Constantly posting on social media about deeply personal things is a major red flag

interesting one - I knew someone once who in RL was forever nattering about "I feel this", "I feel that", "I could feel this if ....". Constant running commentary - it was exhausting so a couple of times I distanced myself - was doing my head in. Eventually at a point where it seemed we wouldn't be seeing each other any more, in a very particular individual place, she said "I'll never forget you". Some time later I referred not to this statement but the place, her response was surprise that we had ever both been to this place. When I expressed shock, she seemed almost delighted. Odd. Very odd.

Dated covert narcissist for only 3 months. Worst experience in a relationship I've ever had. I thought I was going crazy.

-Started off super nice, charming. Did nice things for me like cooking for me a lot. Was really into the physical stuff. He later started accusing me of doing nothing for him, even though I'd fully explained my situation at the beginning. Basically, all that nice stuff was to use against me for control later on.

-Followed typical pattern of idealising, devaluing, discard; then turning others against me. Lost all my friends simply because he hated my refusing to immediately be friends as though we'd not even been together. Complete lack of empathy. So that was my punishment. I don't know what he said to everyone, but it worked and everyone I knew stopped talking to me. He was excellent at fooling people into thinking he was a really nice guy and was super popular. The irony being, he is the worst person I've ever met.

-Said he was fine with certain things, then gradually started criticising those things. Conveniently brought those up whenever I wanted to talk about anything. Silent treatment followed.

-Didn't ask me what I wanted for my birthday. Gifts were nice enough though. But my birthday got overshadowed by a trip to see his mother (shared birthday). It was really shit. Everything was about him and his mother. He didn't tell anyone in his family that it was my birthday and meeting his family wasn't about introducing me to them; it was just about him.

-Booked trips away with friends at christmas/new year without telling me first. That would have been fine, but he'd been lovebombing me and it just didn't fit.
-He eventually admitted he wasn't serious about me at all. Casually and coldly, being the point.

-We fell out about trip away and he lost his temper. I couldn't go home because I'd had some drinks when we were out. So I was stuck there for the night. He gave me the silent treatment and I cried for 2 hours. He lay next to me and just ignored it. He later claimed he'd slept through it and hadn't noticed.

-Didn't want to be seen being affectionate with me in front of our friends towards the end. Retrospectively I wonder if he had been badmouthing me earlier than I realised. I wasn't myself in this relationship, so it would have been easy to do. It was a complete mindfuck for me realising how upset his treatment made me feel, then using the fact I was upset against me.

-A lot of what I told him early on got used against me at a later date.

-He needed lots of friends, many of them women. He had a lifelong pattern of lots of female friends. i eventually realised he just needed the attention. He would text female friends constantly, and just did it more when I indicated I didn't like it very much.

-He posted stuff on social media quite a lot. He wasn't a good looking man particularly, but I got this growing sense that he was in love with himself and needed constant attention. This included him being "very sad" after we broke up, even though he'd dumped me; he was a professional victim and very very manipulative.

-Anything that I wanted to discuss, ie. bringing up bad behaviour, became this silent treatment mixed with him saying he didn't know how to resolve our issues and we should meet to talk; the implication being that he was thinking of breaking up with me. We had a few of these "meetings" and somehow I was a mess.

-Before dumping me, he made sure to sleep with me one more time.

He was an asshole disguised as the nicest person on earth.

I keep thinking of more things...
-He was always doing stuff for charity, or arranging social events for friends. His outward demeanor socially was that he was this super-good guy. But everything was about him.

I didn't learn about vulnerable narcissism until a couple of months after it ended. Finally everything crazy made sense. I realised all that stuff was how he got supply. And how he treated me made perfect sense. I've been involved with a few narcissistic men and have had these people in my life for the longest time too, but this one was likely full NPD, just IMO. I had to block him and everyone he was close to just to recover from it.

That sounds awful @Firefly2009 I'd write him a letter and give him a piece of my mind for that.

That's just giving them more supply, they like any attention at all but best of all if you're angry/upset/feeling negative in any way.

There is no closure with these fuckers, you just have to walk away, stay NC and do your best to try and heal yourself, which can take a lot of work which is understandable considering the mindfucking trauma they inflict on you.

@GloomyWeek44 thank you. I did. This was 7 years ago. He was the sort of person to get off on any attention, even negative attention, so in the end I just decided to block him in every way and in every place! He wrote back to me and it was the most self-aggrandising thing I've ever read; he loved that I wrote to him and that he had the chance to talk more about himself more. Ugh!

I kept the letter though, to remind me to stay away from narcissistic people, and what it looks like.

So true. I was physically ill for several months after that relationship. I only got better when I completely blocked everyone he was associated with. I can't quite explain why, but that's what happened. Three months with that NPD fucker did a real number on me.

The no closure thing is, I think, the reason it's so hard to move on from people like this. You just want some sort of acknowledgement that they behaved badly. Or that they feel bad. Or something.

But no, you get NOTHING because they genuinely don't think they were. It's a form of completely disordered thinking and it's incredibly frustrating.

@Coolstorysis that remind me of the one foot in the grave where Mrs Warboys is on the phone waffling on and Victor puts the phone down and just nips back every5 minutes to say 'mmmm or Oh I see ' etc

@onceuponasnowflake I def think my H has touches of this - he can be quite hard work and likes me around 'a lot' , his moodiness and grumpiness only really seem to manifest themselves to me and as you say I'm a practical kind of kind hearted people person. It has got worse in last 10 years, we've been together 28

The classic response if you dare to say, 'I'm so tired!/ What a busy day/I don't know how I'll get all this done' type of comment- they immediately list everything they've done or need to do that day/week, so as to remind you how insignificant you and your life are in comparison with their own.

Also if you dare to say it's so nice to have a day off or something similar- same response, with the slant of, 'I wish I could have a day off!'

Of course they'll always frame it as a 'Poor me, it's so hard, I wish I could have a quiet day'. But actually they desperately need to be the busiest, most important and hard done by person in the world. They love putting rods on their own back just to (covert triumphantly) fish for sympathy over it.

That sounds like normal corporate 'leadership'.

I'm recovering from a friendship with a covert narcissist. They are so 'lovely' to everyone [until they get too close and are of no further use], to find someone to 'save them who they initially put on a pedestal. They tell you what a victim they are, how it's everyone else's fault, they are always right and the other person always wrong. [Btw, the stories of how they have been the victim are peppered with lies but that doesn't become obvious until later]. They believe their own 'truth' which is not actually how it was/is.

When you've been taken in you discover the friendship/relationship is all about them: what they want, where they want to go and when and you exist to be their 'energy'. They often change their personality/opinions/life style to that of the other person as they have little personality and sense of identity. And little real backbone, they get that from you. They don't really know who they are. You are giving them their energy, their supply.

They are entitled people, entitled to be centre of your attention, as they are 'special', 'different' and 'better' than other people. Often grumpy, in a bad mood, resentment of others seeps out slowly, as do the odd snaps, flashes of temper out of the blue, the snide comments, subtle criticisms and put downs, until you feel devalued and always in the wrong. No one is good enough. They feel superior, despite denying it but can't really hide their disdain.

You start to suss her out so then begins the subtle discard, but [as they still need you for their energy] they also promise the nice times you've had will be there soon [and sometimes they do] thus pulling you in. But on the whole this doesn't happen]. You're pulled backwards and forwards, you trying to help and please them, do the right thing, but you're walking on eggshells never knowing when they will attack your character unfairly.

You see her bloat with superiority when she is centre of attention and when she tries to impress by big statements [new car, new house etc]. It's sad to see.

You don't know what makes them happy, nothing is good enough, no one is good enough in the end and everything is your fault. You feel like your brain is being turned inside out. It's awful. I'd worked it out [never met a person like it in my long life] and thought I was coping as I didn't see this person every day so could recover meanwhile. In the end I felt my own life and identity being threatened and I will never, ever get involved with someone like this again. It has almost broken me. These people take some working out, which can take years.

I gave too many excuses for the person too many second chances, too many benefits of the doubt. They do not change. Beware.

I think this is quite common, particularly in long term male/female relationships. A lot of abusive people (men in this case), whether due to narcissism or anything else, ramp up their behaviours as situations change.

So, for example, early stage of relationship everyone is super loved up and spending lots of time together, the (future/potential) victim is doing all the things the (future/potential) abuser wants them to do. So things seem happy. Look deeper and there might be a few red flags and, on looking back, these might be more obvious. But overall things are good. Eg socialising together, one partner picks up slack at home, "looks after" the other etc etc.

Then children come along. This can be a point at which a switch is flipped. BUT... equally, if the abuser really just wants/needs a partner who is 100% there, 100% available, 100% making sure THEIR life is better, for many, they'll slip into doing it "right" without realising. eg little or no social life outside of the family, taking on the bulk of domestic and childcare responsibilities, being grateful for the higher salary / opportunity to be a SAHM etc.

But then, the kids get older. The victim is a a bit older, more mature, more confident and starts to think, "okay, this is good, I can have a bit of a life back." They start thinking about taking up hobbies, expanding their social network, perhaps doing more/different work or volunteering. Perhaps she focuses on her physical health and fitness and starts exercising or going to the gym.

At this point, things all go to hell. why? Because he's never had to deal with this before. He's never had to worry that she might meet other people or not prioritise him 100% of the time. And suddenly, all the issues surface.

I was married to one for 7 years. Very insidious behaviour. For example, moving things and claiming I must have, breaking things that belonged to me and denying it when it could only have been him. Constant lying, and when I caught him out he would run, literally. I've been abandoned in pubs, parties etc if I've spotted he's texting someone that looks suspicious, he'd then run off.

Emotionless, couldn't empathise at all and looked dead behind the eyes always. Prolific cheater and very predatory to the other women, I know now of 12 times he's cheated, there are probably more. I kicked him out 2 years ago having discovered messages planning to leave me, marry this other woman, etc etc it was vile, I thought it had been going on months..... he'd known her 4 days.

Then the final discard, he tried to come back, then he met someone else and within 5 days moved in with her, never heard from him since, divorce is almost complete now.

In a nutshell, everyone else was more important than me, and I mean everyone, and he would never say he had a wife/partner. The abuse was horrific and killed all self esteem and confidence. Best advice I can give is get out, they don't change

I highly recommend a YouTube channel called "Live Abuse Free". It is aimed at helping people heal from narcissistic abuse and Zoe does a brilliant job of explaining covert narcissistic behaviours in her videos about Chris Watts.

This is so spot on, in my experience. It produces such cognitive dissonance - you hear the words being spoken, and people seem to like them and believe they are a decent person, but the words are not true and nothing ever materialises as promised in private/family life. Just as long as the public persona is kept immaculate..

@Firefly2009 He was always doing stuff for charity, or arranging social events for friends. His outward demeanor socially was that he was this super-good guy. But everything was about him.

Yes, this was exactly my experience with a covert narc too. He was such a nice guy, until he wasn't when the mask fell off. And for a relatively short but extremely intense relationship, I felt traumatised as he caused me to question my own reality and it really took some untangling and a lot of analysis to be able to process in order to move on. Awful, awful experience.

And when we had our final argument his parting words said while maintaining a smug look "well you won't be getting any more updates from me about my life and what I'm upto" ... Good! That's exactly what I wanted, so get out of my hair you self promoting fucker! Yet he thought I'd be crying in sadness at that thought. of not getting my daily update, like he was the centre star of a show the world was subscribed to. They really are so self obsessed.

Yes!....to being self absorbed and the mask slipping. I think they think they are the best person you've ever met, when walking away from them is the biggest relief ever.

@OhBling I think you are right when you say they don't like it if you suddenly are not 100% focussed on them.

Covert narcisists are in my opinion so much more dangerous than the overt grandiose narcs, they won't allow anyone to dislike them or have a poor opinion of them. The control aspect is off the scale, and the energy they require to be everyones favourite person is huge.

The covert narcs I've known have been liked by everyone, men, women, all varying ages, the only people who tend to dislike them are their partners or wives. If you look arround you will see these types of narcs always have a partner who is disliked or elusive in the background, for whatever reason, unsociable, demanding, a nag, abusive, a whole host of reasons why the amazing narc needs to be protected and adored by others, because they have it rough at home. They are liars, through and through, self promoters who are obsessed with their own reputation, they leach off others peoples compliments of them, self obsessed and vain.

Always look to the background or their private lives, the partner is never happy, they don't love, care, chrerish or protect their partners, they destroy the person who truly knows them.

Any relationship with one of these never ends well, whether it is short affairs or long marriages, they will always be the victim, you must go nc with them and all of their social/family and work circle as they will have been versed in your failings. It will take along time for their sphere of influence not to affect you once you have parted.

They are wolves in sheeps clothing and very rarely is the truth uncovered about them.

Agree that the covert type is by far the most insidious and destructive.

If you look arround you will see these types of narcs always have a partner who is disliked or elusive in the background, for whatever reason, unsociable, demanding, a nag, abusive, a whole host of reasons why the amazing narc needs to be protected and adored by others, because they have it rough at home.

That's me. I've no idea what he told his adoring fans (but I do know he even tried to tell my family he couldn't do things because of me, they knew better thankfully) but I do know that he deliberately kept me away from them and then blamed me for not inviting them round or joining in when they went out.

His abuse of me was mainly insidious, apart from the physical stuff which was undeniable, although he did deny it, straight after having done it. It was when he was gone, with the help of Women's Aid and the headspace to see his behaviour for what it was, that I realised just what he'd been doing to me - that was when I became properly frightened of him. And he had already terrified me at times during my life with him.