Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

I really think I need to say something 😡

158 replies

Coffeeblackplease · 05/11/2023 12:13

Sorry this is long! I hadn’t planned for this to turn into a novella but I think I just needed to vent!

I am about to cause a huge row within my family but I don’t think I am the one who is unreasonable here. I’m really losing patience with my brother who has a weird weird friend (best friend since school days). Granted they don’t see each other a lot now, but every time this guy comes to visit my brother drops everything else as everything seems to revolve around this guy. That’s obviously not my problem, but he seems to completely unable to see things from others perspectives.

My brother is absolutely not like this guy but as soon as he comes over they are attached by the hip and get up to weird shit. So now he is apparently coming over for Christmas because unsurprisingly he doesn’t have anyone else.

My mother and her new partner (who is a therapist) have made it clear that they don’t want him at the family event which we have every year. My mother’s partner has met him before and suspects a personality disorder btw.
DB then declared that he wouldn’t come either and would celebrate with his gf and his friend as he’ll be staying with them anyway. DB and his gf only moved in together this year so she has only met him a few times and never for long. I asked my brother if she knows what he’s like and if he has told her about the criminal/ borderline criminal shit the guy keeps getting himself involved in. By his own admission she does not know because he doesn’t want her to judge him before meeting him “properly”.

When I describe this guy as weird that’s putting it mildly. He’s 100% a creep and he’s been in trouble with the law before. I remember from their teens when he beat up my brother (his best friend) so badly that DB couldn’t properly move for days because his back was covered in bruises. He stayed over in our house a lot until my mother barred him after he tried to crawl into her bed. He has zero interest in healthy boundaries and dare I say consent. And yes, I got to experience this myself as well. I could go on forever.

I am absolutely fuming that DB doesn’t want to tell his gf about these things because I think she needs to know when someone will be staying in their place. I’m not saying that he’d do something to her but I think she needs to know at least so she can be safe. I don’t want to be the one to tell her because this might of course rock their relationship, but I think I will tell DB that I will tell her if he doesn’t.

My mother agrees with me but has warned me that DB’s friend might retaliate in some way so to expect some sort of nastiness.

Vent over! And no, I usually don’t involve myself in other people’s relationships but I feel strongly about this one. By all means tell me if I am unreasonable though as I might have tunnel vision. Thank you

OP posts:
lazarusb · 08/11/2023 14:40

Definitely the right thing to do Op. At least your conscience is clear now 💐

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 08/11/2023 15:53

You did the right thing, she is informed, she can make her own decision, your DB has to face the truth. His choices are his own but he should have given his girlfriend the truth too.

Nanny0gg · 08/11/2023 15:55

Coffeeblackplease · 08/11/2023 09:33

She knows, and I’m being blamed for the fallout as expected. I couldn’t care less though

Show quote history

Fallout from your brother or anyone else?

AcrossthePond55 · 08/11/2023 17:30

Coffeeblackplease · 08/11/2023 09:33

She knows, and I’m being blamed for the fallout as expected. I couldn’t care less though

Show quote history

Another voice saying not only that you've done the right thing, but thanking you for doing it. When you stand up for one of us, you stand up for all of us.

Let the fallout fall and don't try to JADE (Justify, Apologize/Argue, Defend or Explain).

SquirrelSoShiny · 08/11/2023 17:54

AcrossthePond55 · 08/11/2023 17:30

Another voice saying not only that you've done the right thing, but thanking you for doing it. When you stand up for one of us, you stand up for all of us.

Let the fallout fall and don't try to JADE (Justify, Apologize/Argue, Defend or Explain).

Show quote history

Agreed. Hold your head high OP.

Original poster
Coffeeblackplease · 08/11/2023 18:22

Nanny0gg · 08/11/2023 15:55

Fallout from your brother or anyone else?

Show quote history

My brother was obviously angry with me, but he seems to have gotten upset now (according to our mom) because he doesn’t know how to get out of the situation now. I don’t want to get sucked into it and have heard nothing from him since.

I’m not surprised that he is upset. He is notorious for trying to avoid conflict and difficult decisions, and I reckon his friend doesn’t know yet. I suspect this will blow up once he hears that he might not get exactly what he wanted. I know my DB and how anxious he gets, and I feel sorry for that but I know that I had to say something.

Thanks for the support all!

OP posts:
Sunandnomoon · 08/11/2023 21:05

Unfortunately, I’ve found it’s a rare thing for people to speak up and do the right thing - especially knowing it’ll cause a fall out and there will be negative consequences to them. You knew your brother would be angry with you but you’ve taken action to protect another woman from a sexual predator. Well done OP. You should be proud of yourself.

Mummymummy89 · 08/11/2023 21:12

Well done, op.

What actually is the fallout/outcome, is the gf not staying for Christmas?

Original poster
Coffeeblackplease · 08/11/2023 21:47

I‘m really not proud of myself at all because I know that I caused a huge row, and I am still worried about my DB. Obviously I realise that people won’t understand but I honestly think that he isn’t a bad person and of course I feel bad. I’m not entirely sure how it will pan out and I hope they will find a way because I’d feel terrible if this had damaged things permanently.

I don’t regret telling her because she needed to know what she is inviting into her home.

OP posts:
SquirrelSoShiny · 08/11/2023 22:09

You did absolutely nothing wrong and the fact there is a row shows how deceptive your brother was being.

He is in thrall to this man who at some level is abusing him and will be willing to abuse those your brother loves. The 'friend' feels entitled to behave in this way. It is part of his personality disorder. Your brother needs to understand that when his friend kicks off it is an indication of how little he truly values or respects your brother.

Original poster
Coffeeblackplease · 09/11/2023 07:13

Thank you. I am worried about him and I really don’t him to get hurt but I don’t think I can do anything about it. This has now shown me how sick this dynamic between them is. I really can’t wrap my head around it.

OP posts:
Hiddenvoice · 09/11/2023 07:59

You did the right thing, hopefully now he will begin to realise that it’s not a healthy friendship and to cut ties.

Bonbon21 · 09/11/2023 19:58

Well done...whatever happens now, she has information and can make choices that are right for her.. and hopefully keep her safe.
Your brother can sort out his own mess.. he doesnt get to turn her into a sacrifical lamb to appease his weirdo friend.
The rest of the family can go suck.
You absolutely did the right thing.

Aydahayda · 09/11/2023 21:08

What was her reaction?

AcrossthePond55 · 10/11/2023 00:21

Coffeeblackplease · 09/11/2023 07:13

Thank you. I am worried about him and I really don’t him to get hurt but I don’t think I can do anything about it. This has now shown me how sick this dynamic between them is. I really can’t wrap my head around it.

No, you really can't do much about it, especially when he's angry with you. Maybe after things calm down a bit it'll get to the point where you'll be able to 'direct his attention' to things he says about this guy and their relationship. Or perhaps his gf will be able to get to him.

I doubt very much that he'd take kindly to you suggesting he needs counseling, but if you think it would help you deal with this, see a counselor yourself and ask them for strategies and ways to attempt to communicate with him. If nothing else it may help you if a professional validates the fact that you can't do a single thing.

Codlingmoths · 10/11/2023 00:48

Your brother may not be a bad person but the right thing to do is still to tell his gf so she can make decisions that keep her safe. Her safety is more important than his anxiety here.
I don’t think the relationship will last though. What self respecting woman would stay long after watching ‘things blow up’ because her partners gf had to tell them how her partner would put her in a dangerous situation, and then seeing her partner really upset … that his plans with his friend were cancelled. Not about her safety. Thats not a relationship to stay in.

StaceyTweedle · 10/11/2023 07:53

You absolutely did the right thing. Hopefully this will make him rethink this “friendship”. I am also wondering what “weird shit” they get up to together and whether this falls into this deviant bracket as well. Your brother might be an enabler or indeed an active participant or follower.

Original poster
Coffeeblackplease · 10/11/2023 09:13

She was of course upset that her partner is friends with someone who has acted like this in our home, and that he didn’t think that there was any chance that his friend would do something to her. I’m not sure what the latest status is between them now and I will stay out of it and hope that they can find a solution.

I’m not sure what they get up to now when they get together. It used to be stuff that would fall into criminal territory I believe. My brother called it “pranks” but it involved harassment, stalking, trespassing, theft etc and watching the targets reaction. There was one incident when his friend ran naked through a graveyard. Weird shit like that. At least that’s the stuff that I know of.

They might not be doing this any more, but as soon as the creep arrives they are glued together and “busy”. I didn’t tell the gf details on this because I don’t think it’s that important for her.

OP posts:
StaceyTweedle · 10/11/2023 10:17

I don’t think your brother is as innocent as you believe but I understand why you dont want to get involved further. Hopefully the gf recognises this and makes the right choice for herself.

81scribbler · 10/11/2023 10:35

It sounds like your brother gets some sort if validation he needs from this friend. Maybe your dad leaving affected his sense of self-validation. Perhaps your dad made him feel fun / worthwhile and he's tried to replicate that with this man, or it could be the opposite that he's seeking out a bully for a companion and he's feels comfortable / accustomed to that dynamic.

Either way your brother would clearly benefit from some therapy although he won't be reaching that conclusion himself just now.

The fallout and the challenge this presents him could be unfortunately what is needed to help him wake up. You'll have to let him come to that realisation by himself.

All you can do now is maintain your boundaries, look after yourselves / the women in the family and report this nasty man to the police immediately if anything else happens.

GoldDuster · 10/11/2023 12:26

Your brother is a grown man and his conduct, the choices he makes and the company he keeps are solely his responsiblity, along with the fallout from getting it wrong. Not your problem OP, you did the right thing. It's now up to him to unpick the mess he created, it's not on you to feel guilt.

Wouldyouguess · 10/11/2023 13:50

To be honest your brother sounds pretty horrific- and I hope the GF finds out and dumps him, imagine sleeping with someone who harrasses people for fun (does not matter the friend may be the one who instigates that- he's not 5! and he participates in it). Imagine the toll it must have had on his poor victims.

StaceyTweedle · 10/11/2023 15:26

Wouldyouguess · 10/11/2023 13:50

To be honest your brother sounds pretty horrific- and I hope the GF finds out and dumps him, imagine sleeping with someone who harrasses people for fun (does not matter the friend may be the one who instigates that- he's not 5! and he participates in it). Imagine the toll it must have had on his poor victims.

This

Jewelspun · 10/11/2023 17:05

Tell the girlfriend that she should know what the friend is like. Make sure you tell her the bit about him beating up your brother.

If she thinks her man is weaker than this guy she will know that is anything happens than she won't be protected, otherwise your brother will be telling her that he can protect her.

It's an odd relationship to remain friends with someone who beat you up and humiliated you.

I wonder if he has some hold over your brother?

Daleksatemyshed · 10/11/2023 17:54

I'm very glad you warned his GF Op, your DB's friendship with this other man sounds seriously weird, and sadly if his GF had been assualted I'm not sure where your DB's loyalties would lie. I think you all need to make it clear to your DB that no one in the family wants anything to do with his friend, frankly, he sounds dangerous and I can't understand what your DB finds so great about him