I really think I need to say something 😡

[Coffeeblackplease]

Sorry this is long! I hadn’t planned for this to turn into a novella but I think I just needed to vent!

I am about to cause a huge row within my family but I don’t think I am the one who is unreasonable here. I’m really losing patience with my brother who has a weird weird friend (best friend since school days). Granted they don’t see each other a lot now, but every time this guy comes to visit my brother drops everything else as everything seems to revolve around this guy. That’s obviously not my problem, but he seems to completely unable to see things from others perspectives.

My brother is absolutely not like this guy but as soon as he comes over they are attached by the hip and get up to weird shit. So now he is apparently coming over for Christmas because unsurprisingly he doesn’t have anyone else.

My mother and her new partner (who is a therapist) have made it clear that they don’t want him at the family event which we have every year. My mother’s partner has met him before and suspects a personality disorder btw.
DB then declared that he wouldn’t come either and would celebrate with his gf and his friend as he’ll be staying with them anyway. DB and his gf only moved in together this year so she has only met him a few times and never for long. I asked my brother if she knows what he’s like and if he has told her about the criminal/ borderline criminal shit the guy keeps getting himself involved in. By his own admission she does not know because he doesn’t want her to judge him before meeting him “properly”.

When I describe this guy as weird that’s putting it mildly. He’s 100% a creep and he’s been in trouble with the law before. I remember from their teens when he beat up my brother (his best friend) so badly that DB couldn’t properly move for days because his back was covered in bruises. He stayed over in our house a lot until my mother barred him after he tried to crawl into her bed. He has zero interest in healthy boundaries and dare I say consent. And yes, I got to experience this myself as well. I could go on forever.

I am absolutely fuming that DB doesn’t want to tell his gf about these things because I think she needs to know when someone will be staying in their place. I’m not saying that he’d do something to her but I think she needs to know at least so she can be safe. I don’t want to be the one to tell her because this might of course rock their relationship, but I think I will tell DB that I will tell her if he doesn’t.

My mother agrees with me but has warned me that DB’s friend might retaliate in some way so to expect some sort of nastiness.

Vent over! And no, I usually don’t involve myself in other people’s relationships but I feel strongly about this one. By all means tell me if I am unreasonable though as I might have tunnel vision. Thank you

I raised the possibility that op's brother is not innocent but is colluding with the friend. I still read it that way.

But even if not, even if the brother, who is upset by roadkill, is quite innocent, the fact remains that he has no drive at all to protect his womenfolk from a dangerous man; instead he puts them in harm's way.

To me, it seems to stretch the bounds of credibility that op's brother does this unknowingly. This man who he knows has tried to molest his mother, molest his sister, has been arrested (multiple times?), has beaten him up violently, etc. How can he not predict that this man would be a danger to his (presumably) young and attractive girlfriend, on an overnight visit. But even if he is just extremely simple and dense, which I find hard to imagine, the fact remains that women around him are at risk due to his friendship with the violent man. They all need to be told, not just this gf but any subsequent ones.

I know it must be hard for op to get her head round the idea that her brother would put this friendship over her and her mother's and his girlfriend's safety. But, imo, it's pretty clear he has.

If I found out that my SIL and MIL knew all of this but let this man stay in my house at all, let alone for Christmas, without telling me, I would be absolutely furious. It would be even more damaging for your family then. I would spell all of this out in no uncertain terms to your brother and tell him that you will be speaking to his girlfriend due to all these reasons. She absolutely has to be told.

You need to tell her. Your brother either doesn't understand or doesn't care about the threat this man is to women, so she needs the facts to keep herself safe. Focus on what's happened, rather than how you feel about him, so your brother can't flip the narrative.

@SquirrelSoShiny After getting confirmation, the answer is yes

?

Yes that they share this cuck fantasy?

No, I think it was the stepdad thinking the chap might have ASPD.

So ASPD? Which used to be known as plain old sociopathy. Or NPD?

I'd be interested to know more about your father and the reasons your parents divorced - if either of them showed any narcissistic traits. Your brother's emotional personality (eg cries at roadkill) is exactly what makes him so delicious for someone with ASPD / NPD. Because these people literally can't feel normal emotions, they are drawn to empathic, emotional types because they can play the victim when actually they are predators. They are initially fascinated by emotional people and then they begin systematically exploiting them.

They were usually victims in childhood by the way, often of horrific neglect and abuse. Sadly they have very little capacity to change beyond the following: It is in my interests to blend in and conform to social norms because it keeps me out of prison / I like having a job and earning money / I like having access to sexual partners and suckers I pretend are my friends.

I don't know anything about your mum's partner or what sort of therapist he is and if he was making an official diagnosis in an unofficial capacity he would be very problematic. But the truth is: people get to know certain types, often due to prior exposure to them. I'm not surprised he's warning you all about this man because he may well have a deeper understanding of just how dangerous he could potentially be. He's raising a red flag over someone he loves i.e. your mum. I think that's totally natural.

I know, it's an auxiliary issue.

I wouldn't be joking in this situation. She needs to know honestly and directly and OP you also need to have a serious chat with your brother. Is he for real, siding with his "mate" over his sister and mother? Wow he would be dead to me! 😮

He suspects aspd but hasn’t said anything apart from keeping a distance and not letting him inside your home or near you. If he’s right then what do I do about my brother.
Our parents weren’t perfect but they weren’t bad. They did split after my mother had an affair but I don’t think either of them was abusive or controlling. I guess it doesn’t matter much anyway.

Perfect👌answer. Totally agree x

The problem is your brother is probably trauma bonded to him. His friend will have told him: Mate, you're special. You're the only one who understands me and stands by me. You and me against the world, friends to the end etc.

Sadly it often takes a fairly severe incident to break the spell. I have unfortunately experienced someone like the friend and had he not moved abroad I would have been very much at risk from him.

@Coffeeblackplease

I think they did meet when our parents were getting divorced but other than that I don’t know of any “trauma” that my brother might have suffered. I remember that we were both struggling with this but that he spent a lot of time with his new friend, and that they snuck out at night.

You never know how something like a divorce might impact on a young person. It may be that this 'friend' was the one person your DB poured his heart out to. And if this friend has some sort of personality disorder or is just a 'using jerk' he may have really played things up with your brother and created a feeling of obligation in him that he's been feeding ever since. I know, I know I'm practicing armchair psychology here.

The thing is, you can't do much to help your brother. He's an adult and can make his own choices based on his own interpretation of things past (if that's what it is). But the gf is an innocent party here, she deserves full knowledge of what this man is. If she's informed and chooses to disregard because of her 'faith' in your brother, that is her decision. You will be able to rest in the knowledge that you have done the right thing.

But I do think you need to remain steadfast in your refusal to be around this man but also let your brother know that you will always be willing to see him when this man is not around. Someday something may 'snap' in your brother and he sees the light. You want him to know that you are here for him if/when that happens.

Start a group chat with both your DB and his GF and stress that they are both more than welcome to come to Christmas lunch or to stop on later for nibbles and a drink but that as has been made to clear before, due to the friend's highly inappropriate behaviour to you all personally and his general criminal behaviour, his friend is not invited.

Then leave it up to the GF to contact you to ask questions.

@AcrossthePond55 I didn’t mean to minimise the divorce or the impact it might have had on him. It’s just that it’s the only thing I could think of.
Yeah you are right. I can’t make him change his mind. I think I just went down a rabbit hole when reading about it.

I’ll let her know, will see if I can reach her later

Definitely warn her not to be alone with this man. She sounds at real risk if he’s staying in her home and your brother’s naivety around this creep means he will be unable to protect her.

Is the criminal behaviour also to do with sexual assault, other types of assault or generally being a danger to others? Because those are facts that can't be disputed and you should probably lead with that, as your brother is going to downplay everything you say and make you look like the bad guy.

Don’t message her. Speak to her whether that’s on the phone or face to face. Plus is there any I for online such as court records etc to back this all up. Purely because it sounds like your brother will try and minimise it all. There is also Clare’s Law though is it only the person at risk that can ask for disclosure? Can anyone confirm?

I know of someone who is a partner of a relative who has been jailed for extreme violence, their victim is in a wheelchair for life. I have refused to ever meet them, I have been really judged for this refusal.

Will meet her for a coffee after work unless something comes up, I’m not texting any of this

That sounds sensible - wishing you luck in the conversation. Keep it factual but I understand why you can see a risk for her. In your shoes I would too. At least this way you are giving her a choice.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you had. After all, you went through it too and I'm sure it had an impact on you. I guess it's just possible that either he was less able or you were more able to deal with it. Or that this man played on your brother's upset at that time. I've seen 'bad' teens manipulating 'good' teens into being someone they're not or doing things they normally wouldn't.

I'm glad you're going to speak to her and I agree, 'nothing in writing'. And I hope that at some point this man's 'spell' over your DB gets broken.

Does the gf know now?

She knows, and I’m being blamed for the fallout as expected. I couldn’t care less though

You've done the right thing. 💐