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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this relationship doomed? 18 months in with Moroccan bf 17 years younger.

569 replies

Laura401 · 29/10/2023 22:27

So... left abusive relationship 2 years ago. Managing kids 50/50 with ex, and met a man when I went on holiday. Didn't really think about age or anything, began a friendship online afterwards and feelings intensified over several months. Despite initial attraction, i was reluctant due to being older. I'm 45 and he is 28. We met again, 3 times for a couple of weeks at a time - it was he most natrual and incredible experience - and we talk multiple times a day. We work together on projects, and in fact he has saved my bacon a number of times. All the classic red flags are non existent and we are, to all extents and purposes, a couple - a very happy, incredibly connected and in love couple (a feeling i though i would never again feel). My kids know about him, and are ok, not over the moon, but ok, and a few very close friends know as well. Now things have progressed to meeting families and spending as much time together as possible. I have never before met anyone quite like him and trust him implicitly. Before i hear all the comments about men from this country, Muslim men, age gap relationships etc, I want to add that i have no intention of marrying or being a green card. I just want to ask whether anyone else has found themselves in this situation and whether there was a happy ending? I'm in a total quandary about what I should do moving forwards. Is this just a road to nowhere? Am I kidding myself this could work out? Is this a love conquers all situation? I am not one for convention and don't care what people other than my kids and my loved ones think. That said, any advice from people who have found themselves in a similar situation would be massively appreciated. Ty

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
slore · 30/10/2023 16:31

@Laura401 you say you are not naive and yet everything you say and believe is based heavily on your emotions. You're a romantic, an idealist, and you have a strong belief in fate and destiny. My jaw was on the floor when you said this:

"The qualities I believe he has, what we both bring to our relationship, how he makes me feel, how safe I have actually felt with him. You can't fake these things, I don't believe."

These things are faked by every romance scammer, ever. This is hopelessly naive. You're an ideal target.

You think everyone is just looking down on your because we're all boring and conventional and we wouldn't understand your superior and liberated worldview. But we're are all just tired of hearing these terrible stories and know the outcome is misery and loss for you and want to stop you and your children being hurt.

You asked for examples of where it has worked out, you haven't received any that are similar to your situation because successful relationships like yours are as rare as hen's teeth.

As a polite, educated and professional man, your lover would objectively be considered a huge catch in any country, but especially in Morocco where most people marry and have children quite young. To be such an eligible bachelor and still single at 28 is highly unlikely. (And you're unlikely to be his first Western girlfriend)

It's all very well to be saying "to hell with convention" but the reality is he comes from a culture where:

  1. Women over 30 (and even younger) are seen as over the hill
  2. Divorced women are seen as used up
  3. This post would probably be deleted if I accurately described how many see white Western women.

Even if he and his family personally don't believe any of those things, it would still be incredibly hard for them to be open and proud about having a relationship with someone like you, who would very much be considered not good enough for him.

One thing that is not looked down on is scamming/using/exploiting white western women. They would see it as entirely your fault for being such a sex-driven Western hussy that you fell for it. Also, resentment from their perception that we are all rich while their whole country unfairly struggles.

You know that a relationship such as yours would be judged even in our culture, and that would be magnified 100-fold over there. Therefore, if his family, neighbours, friends, colleagues and associates have not mentioned any concerns AT ALL, then they all know the score: you're being scammed, and to them, it is entirely your own fault and your toyboy is entitled to do it so long as you're mug enough to fall for it. Good for him, they think, and they're happy to go along with it - they're probably already benefitting from the £200/day work you sometimes pay him - equivalent to about 6 weeks average salary.

He has already benefitted financially from you: getting work, getting paid a UK rate, and getting work contacts and UK clients. Also he has already successfully made you feel indebted to him, laying the groundwork for future "family emergency" emotional begging, or future work collaborations where you give him a leg up. Or even requests to go into business with him.

ALL of these are routes into you being exploited.

"My gut is telling me that life is crazy because sometimes you meet someone that you are meant to meet - and we would never have met - it was one of those weird things - spur of the moment holiday for me, he had missed a train home whole visiting friends in another city and i was waiting for a bus, and we sat in the same cafe and just got talking..something clicked.my gut says this is for real. I'm no fool and I'm not naieve. We have a crazy connection"

Good lord, get your head out of the clouds. These mundane meetings happen all day, everyday, to most urban people, all over the world.

Look, you're a successful businesswoman, you're a mother of 3 and you speak another language: you are an accomplished individual but you're got a massive, massive Achilles heel in your judgement in men. Stop believing in fairytales.

PictureOfFlorianTray · 30/10/2023 16:33

Good to hear that you have boundaries in place but this notion of his of not needing money and, indeed, refusing it is a red flag... the long con.

Be wary of any sudden requests for urgent medical care, sudden shortfalls of income , debts , tuition funding etc...

SawX · 30/10/2023 16:38

PosterBoy · 30/10/2023 16:03

was it a stunning and unique mental connection and so weirdly lucky you weren't attracted to the uncharismatic 60 year old next in line?

I did think it was stunning that he was attracted to me, a sunburned fat woman twice his age who he had just watched walk out from a very expensive hotel. Unfortunately I'm conventional so I shut him down politely and didn't embark on a wonderful romance.

Gifflon · 30/10/2023 16:40

@PosterBoy

Well apparently not! It’s clearly possible to look glam, supercool and ageless at a Moroccan bus stop - as they had ‘no idea’ of the age difference until the proper ‘physical’ meet 6 months later!

Gifflon · 30/10/2023 16:46

@SawX

🤣

Laura401 · 30/10/2023 16:51

Well, you can have your little guffaws and sniggers, make your wise cracks and feel so much better than silly old me. I won't reply to anything more because clearly I'm stupid , ignorant and naieve and my life will end up a pit of misery. Thanks for the supportive advice some of you. Over and out.

OP posts:
Lorelaigilmore88 · 30/10/2023 17:04

Laura401 · 30/10/2023 16:51

Well, you can have your little guffaws and sniggers, make your wise cracks and feel so much better than silly old me. I won't reply to anything more because clearly I'm stupid , ignorant and naieve and my life will end up a pit of misery. Thanks for the supportive advice some of you. Over and out.

I don't think you are stupid and I'm not laughing at you. But you posted on here asking for advice, you've had pretty much 17 pages of people saying its going nowhere, its likely a scam and youve rebutted and been defensive of everything people have said.
I guess you will do what you want but if you do take anything from this thread, it should be that the minute he asks for money, whether it be a 'loan', family emergency, 'business' investment, his mother needs urgent hospital treatment, blah blah... you then walk away. Because if you didnt, then you would be truly stupid.

Lentilweaver · 30/10/2023 17:07

I don't think you are stupid. I just don't believe in "love conquering all"or "incredible connections", and so on. I think that things like age, financial disparities, cultural differences and existing children matter a great deal.

I am 51 and the romance has been knocked out of me! replaced by cold hard facts.

Roussette · 30/10/2023 17:15

Laura401 · 30/10/2023 16:51

Well, you can have your little guffaws and sniggers, make your wise cracks and feel so much better than silly old me. I won't reply to anything more because clearly I'm stupid , ignorant and naieve and my life will end up a pit of misery. Thanks for the supportive advice some of you. Over and out.

The trouble is... there is history with this sort of romance. Unfair I know, but there is. I am sure some romances work out in some way or another, but so many just don't.

I feel sorry that you have had a pasting on here because I think you are a sensible woman and you are taking it slow. All I know is... my adult DCs would be seriously worried about what I was getting myself in to and they wouldn't be backward in coming forward in telling me. But they are older than yours.

PierceMorgansChin · 30/10/2023 17:25

SawX · 30/10/2023 16:00

Funnily enough it was at a bus stop where a refugee half my age tried to chat me up in Cyprus. They must all share tips.

Is that bus still running? 😃

YourWinter · 30/10/2023 17:27

Do you see it working when you’re 65 and he’s 48?

I’d be surprised if you do.

Gifflon · 30/10/2023 17:29

@Laura401

Apologies. I think I’m a bit sceptical about the initial bus stop meet, and I’m wondering if you- maybe? - initially only met online. Perhaps to make it sound a bit better and less like a potential scam.

I think you should be very, very careful. Don’t let your heart rule your head. I’ve had that happen to me in my twenties, also with a long distance romance. I wish I could go back in time and change that decision. It impacted my career, ability to have children. People around me were trying to make me see sense, and I do wish that I’d listened.

SawX · 30/10/2023 17:40

Laura401 · 30/10/2023 16:51

Well, you can have your little guffaws and sniggers, make your wise cracks and feel so much better than silly old me. I won't reply to anything more because clearly I'm stupid , ignorant and naieve and my life will end up a pit of misery. Thanks for the supportive advice some of you. Over and out.

I'm sorry. I know it seems nasty but honestly it's just frustrating watching someone - even a stranger online - walk headfirst into a scam. Especially one as old as the hills. Believe it or not I don't want you to suffer.

Gardeningtime · 30/10/2023 18:05

My maths must be off, how does it work if you meet someone 18 months ago, go quarterly after that first meeting, and only have been 3 times since.

so 3 times in 18 months, does not make quarterly to me. It’s about every five or six months as you’re heading to your fourth.

and how can you call him your boyfriend when you see him roughly twice a year for a couple of weeks?

it’s just all over the place.

KitsyWitsy · 30/10/2023 18:18

I’m not laughing. I don’t want to see anyone hurt or scammed. You’re obviously accomplished and intelligent but I think you’re also very vulnerable right now and it is clouding your judgement. I bet there are plenty of chaps your own age that would love to go out with you, for you, not what you can provide.

WhatWillAPearDoAtNight · 30/10/2023 18:22

slore · 30/10/2023 16:31

@Laura401 you say you are not naive and yet everything you say and believe is based heavily on your emotions. You're a romantic, an idealist, and you have a strong belief in fate and destiny. My jaw was on the floor when you said this:

"The qualities I believe he has, what we both bring to our relationship, how he makes me feel, how safe I have actually felt with him. You can't fake these things, I don't believe."

These things are faked by every romance scammer, ever. This is hopelessly naive. You're an ideal target.

You think everyone is just looking down on your because we're all boring and conventional and we wouldn't understand your superior and liberated worldview. But we're are all just tired of hearing these terrible stories and know the outcome is misery and loss for you and want to stop you and your children being hurt.

You asked for examples of where it has worked out, you haven't received any that are similar to your situation because successful relationships like yours are as rare as hen's teeth.

As a polite, educated and professional man, your lover would objectively be considered a huge catch in any country, but especially in Morocco where most people marry and have children quite young. To be such an eligible bachelor and still single at 28 is highly unlikely. (And you're unlikely to be his first Western girlfriend)

It's all very well to be saying "to hell with convention" but the reality is he comes from a culture where:

  1. Women over 30 (and even younger) are seen as over the hill
  2. Divorced women are seen as used up
  3. This post would probably be deleted if I accurately described how many see white Western women.

Even if he and his family personally don't believe any of those things, it would still be incredibly hard for them to be open and proud about having a relationship with someone like you, who would very much be considered not good enough for him.

One thing that is not looked down on is scamming/using/exploiting white western women. They would see it as entirely your fault for being such a sex-driven Western hussy that you fell for it. Also, resentment from their perception that we are all rich while their whole country unfairly struggles.

You know that a relationship such as yours would be judged even in our culture, and that would be magnified 100-fold over there. Therefore, if his family, neighbours, friends, colleagues and associates have not mentioned any concerns AT ALL, then they all know the score: you're being scammed, and to them, it is entirely your own fault and your toyboy is entitled to do it so long as you're mug enough to fall for it. Good for him, they think, and they're happy to go along with it - they're probably already benefitting from the £200/day work you sometimes pay him - equivalent to about 6 weeks average salary.

He has already benefitted financially from you: getting work, getting paid a UK rate, and getting work contacts and UK clients. Also he has already successfully made you feel indebted to him, laying the groundwork for future "family emergency" emotional begging, or future work collaborations where you give him a leg up. Or even requests to go into business with him.

ALL of these are routes into you being exploited.

"My gut is telling me that life is crazy because sometimes you meet someone that you are meant to meet - and we would never have met - it was one of those weird things - spur of the moment holiday for me, he had missed a train home whole visiting friends in another city and i was waiting for a bus, and we sat in the same cafe and just got talking..something clicked.my gut says this is for real. I'm no fool and I'm not naieve. We have a crazy connection"

Good lord, get your head out of the clouds. These mundane meetings happen all day, everyday, to most urban people, all over the world.

Look, you're a successful businesswoman, you're a mother of 3 and you speak another language: you are an accomplished individual but you're got a massive, massive Achilles heel in your judgement in men. Stop believing in fairytales.

This list is excellent, couldn't have put it better myself.
I know someone going through the same but they are getting married, it's like watching a car crash.

Gardeningtime · 30/10/2023 18:27

Oh god op, I just reread all your posts as you keep confusing yourself,

you did meet him online didn’t you? And you’ve been there 3 times.

tunainatin · 30/10/2023 18:30

I married a North African, not a big age difference but he's much better looking than me 😂 it's worked out for us and he certainly didn't want anything other than what he said, but the cultural differences have been challenging. I think as long as you ensure you are clear about your own boundaries you should continue to enjoy it.

MariaLuna · 30/10/2023 18:34

I'm enjoying it for what it is though however long it lasts.

Good for you. Mine lasted 18 years. 22-year age difference (him younger).
No interest in a visa at all. He loved where he lived. Met all his friends and family (including grandparents). We had a great time.
My son met him and they got on really well together.

It ended... well, it ended because LDR's just don't work when it's so far apart.

You can see from all the MN's posts men you meet at home aren't the be-all and end-all either. 😅

Farmageddon · 30/10/2023 18:36

Because of this thread I started watching some episodes of Catfished on Youtube.
It's incredible what some of the guys will do to scam women - faking passport images, stealing photos from instagram and even a fake videocall where the guy had superimposed a fake persons image over his face - it's incredibly advanced.

The key is, they will always ask for money eventually - for some 'crisis'.

GilberMarkham · 30/10/2023 18:42

It doesn't really matter how his family act .... It's highly unlikely they'd agree you staying with them or having a meal at their home and then be rude or off or raise awkward issues.

Whether they think he's with you for some advantages it could bring him, or just genuinely interested/having feelings in you at this time .... They'd just indulge him and be tactful/polite/accommodating. In either case I'd guess they have a pragmatic que Sera, sera attitude.

Their attitude means nothing much.

RantyAnty · 30/10/2023 18:47

Nobody is laughing at you.
We know it's a scam and don't want to see you hurt.

GilberMarkham · 30/10/2023 18:49

On the subject of the relationship; it's a big age gap and he has no kids yet (if he's been honest about that); totally aside from the nationality and distance issues..... That's extremely likely to end sooner or later.

28 yr old men may be theoretically ok with the idea of not having their own kids, it's a vague concept even to many women (who change their minds in their mid to late 30s) let alone men who have an indefinite fertility window .... As they get older though, they're v unlikely to stay that way.

His assertion that he'd be happy not to have them if it's not with you; is at best naive/delusional (and at worst just part of a script).

This would be the case with even a UK 28 yr old.

I think of you don't want to end up hurt, you need to end the relationship, your feelings are clearly engaged so it will be a long and somwhat painful disengagement but that's what's necessary.

strawberriesarenot · 30/10/2023 19:29

I am sure you are being scammed.
Did you tell him you were previously in an abusive relationship?
You are trying to tell us you are a wise, well travelled, woman of the world.

In reality, you are so naive you can't even spell the word.

This happened with a friend and a Russian girl he met in Thailand. 'Russian girls,' well travelled friend told me, 'are the kindest, most sympathetic, hard working women on the planet. And they never ever would consider sex before marriage.'

He's working at a call centre now, having lost most of what he had, plus his friends and reputation.
Green as grass.

GreekDogRescue · 30/10/2023 19:50

strawberriesarenot · 30/10/2023 19:29

I am sure you are being scammed.
Did you tell him you were previously in an abusive relationship?
You are trying to tell us you are a wise, well travelled, woman of the world.

In reality, you are so naive you can't even spell the word.

This happened with a friend and a Russian girl he met in Thailand. 'Russian girls,' well travelled friend told me, 'are the kindest, most sympathetic, hard working women on the planet. And they never ever would consider sex before marriage.'

He's working at a call centre now, having lost most of what he had, plus his friends and reputation.
Green as grass.

You sound completely paranoid.