Is this relationship doomed? 18 months in with Moroccan bf 17 years younger.

[Laura401]

So... left abusive relationship 2 years ago. Managing kids 50/50 with ex, and met a man when I went on holiday. Didn't really think about age or anything, began a friendship online afterwards and feelings intensified over several months. Despite initial attraction, i was reluctant due to being older. I'm 45 and he is 28. We met again, 3 times for a couple of weeks at a time - it was he most natrual and incredible experience - and we talk multiple times a day. We work together on projects, and in fact he has saved my bacon a number of times. All the classic red flags are non existent and we are, to all extents and purposes, a couple - a very happy, incredibly connected and in love couple (a feeling i though i would never again feel). My kids know about him, and are ok, not over the moon, but ok, and a few very close friends know as well. Now things have progressed to meeting families and spending as much time together as possible. I have never before met anyone quite like him and trust him implicitly. Before i hear all the comments about men from this country, Muslim men, age gap relationships etc, I want to add that i have no intention of marrying or being a green card. I just want to ask whether anyone else has found themselves in this situation and whether there was a happy ending? I'm in a total quandary about what I should do moving forwards. Is this just a road to nowhere? Am I kidding myself this could work out? Is this a love conquers all situation? I am not one for convention and don't care what people other than my kids and my loved ones think. That said, any advice from people who have found themselves in a similar situation would be massively appreciated. Ty

This.

OP you said that he wants to come to the UK, and is working on getting the visa requirements - what are these? Money? Qualifications? How realistic is this as a prospect if you don't help him? Has he got a plan or a timeline for this?

The reality is, even if this isn't a scam, there is not much practically on which to build a successful relationship. You are adamant you don't want marriage or children - he cannot come to the UK without it. Added to that you are at different life stages.

So it could just be a holiday fling. Which is great, but it does sounds as though you are much more emotionally invested than that.

Listen OP, he will be generous and proud and do you favours and be there for you and then, he will have some.kind of crisis. He will owe bad people money or injure himself and be unable to pay his bills (he won't really, but he will send you convincing photos) and then it will be your turn to pay him. Which you will feel obligated to after all he has done for you. And you will because if you don't then the fantasy will be over. And because a piece of your brain will tell you what if it IS a real situation? But it will have been the plan all along. As someone said, the long con.
Enjoy the attention and guard your heart more than you have been, so that when the moment comes you can cut it off dead with no guilt.

I don't think marriage is the be all and end all and people can have various relationships in their lives - not all destined to last forever. Everyone seems to think that is the goal. It is not. Being happy and fulfilled, being mentally stimulated, great sex, emotional connection, enjoying adventures, learning about new cultures, meeting new people and growing my world view are what I - and he - get out of this.

S0 he does want to come to the uk. Where will he live if he does?

I suppose after reading up on this thread, my question to the OP is now:

What would this relationship 'working out' look like to you? In two years, five years, ten years? Or do you view it as maybe a thing that will last a few years then naturally dissolve when the passion is gone?

The reason I ask is I think it will help clarify in your mind. From what I've read, I'm guessing that you would like to continue seeing him for 'long holidays' in his own country and maybe other travels in other countries, and continue a long distance relationship for the most part? Do you only want to go visit him? With or without your young adult kids? Do you want a baby with him? If you wanted to live together would you go over there and live with him? How would that work out?

Is he allowed to come to the UK at all on a holiday visa? Is he able to afford flights and travel to visit you in the UK? Would you permit him to stay at your home if he did?

Things to consider - are you sure he's not building up to using your address and your work / company as a sort of 'sponsorship' or statement of work viability for a visa application?

Also things to consider, that as soon as his feet hit British soil... in fact scratch that... as soon as he's on the flight over to the UK, even for a holiday visit, you know that he's going to be using every angle possible with everyone he meets to try to wangle residency of the UK and he may also already have contacts in the UK, plus migrant friends.

Now there's nothing wrong with that at all - everyone's entitled to better their life situation - but we must all be aware that for some bizarre reason, people from such countries think that coming to the UK is like winning the lottery and that we are all dripping with wealth that could help them, their families, and their entire village. I have seen this in action not just making some strange prejudiced assumptions.

It's one thing to ensure you don't marry him OK fair enough that's a great preventative measure -but- if he were to visit your home, what would you do to make sure he doesn't abuse that situation? What if he didn't want to leave?

What a strange story

So the man you've only spent a few weeks in company with not only wants to come to the UK, is allegedly working on that (in what way? Which visa? Does he have a hope in hell? Does he needs sponsorship?) but also doesn't want children if he can't have them with you.... Yeah right.

He's started the process of scamming a visa from you already. Back away!

Re: sex. Muslim women (almost never) have sex before marriage and certainly in a conservative country like Morocco this 28-year-old unmarried man's opportunities for casual sex are likely to be extremely limited. Enter stage left female tourists from the liberal West - ta da! You're filling a gap in his life OP - one without much easy sex. You're meeting his family! Well guess what? His family probably see you as a stop gap for him (an outlet for his sexual needs before he gets married) and as a potential opportunity. There are countless stories of middle-aged and older white women who go on holiday to Morocco, the Gambia, Jamaica (fill in as applicable), hook up with some young guy who professes his love, brings him to the UK, marries him and then he fucks off as soon as he arrives. You say you won't do that, because you're too cautious and clever, but that doesn't mean that your guy isn't hoping he can change your mind.

Do you really believe this? This romantic view? You are knocking on fifty with a man in his twenties, who you clearly see very rarely in real life, so in reality hardly know and wants to come to the uk.

and if you’re offering up accommodation or anything else, then you’re facilitating it.

surely no one is this naive?

You’re right, and I didn’t mean that a relationship can’t be real without marriage etc.
I meant that the fact that you can’t/won’t marry because you have to ensure that you’re not taken advantage of……that is the killer.

All good points and things I have thought about. And I can't really answer them because I don't know the answers. Do you all think so in detail about every aspect of your lives? Put timelines on everything? Maybe this is where my naivety lies. I don't think about the minutae. We have talked about him visiting me if he was in the UK but again that is dependent on my kids. He knows that. The UK isn't the main point of conversation but I know we need to talk more about the future. I guess that part is a bit nervewracking for me. I'm just being honest- I'm a go with the flow person (definitely not a boho free spirit type like someone else said). I work hard, look after my kids well and this is a simple relationship that serves my purposes. I havent honestly thought more about it until recently due to my upcoming trip when we are staying with his family (I have met his sister and brother before.) Guess I'm nervous about it all.

Sorry. But this was my thought too. I split with an abusive man, my DC was admittedly under 2yo at the time. This was about 2.5 years ago and I'm still single, I cannot imagine already being with someone and buggering off on holiday for weeks on end with them and leaving DC at home. That being said I am now a lone parent so that literally would not be an option in my case, not that I'd consider it. Little wonder your kids aren't thrilled.

I am 48 and on holiday in Turkey recently with my kids, was approached and chatted up by quite a few much younger guys (late teens!). I just found it weird (my kids were dying of cringe). I have a friend who married a much younger Turkish waiter and unsurprisingly, it all ended up very messily indeed. I've also written about the culture in the Caribbean and other places about guys hooking up with older Western women who then send them money - they generally have more than one on the go. In places where there's a big tourist industry and widespread poverty, this kind of sex tourism is quite normal. It is possible this guy is different and really sees you two as an item - but he probably isn't tbh. Also, there's something about distasteful about the exploitation in both directions - it's a transactional relationship and they are always exploitative.

OP, I agree with others in that you sound pretty grounded and not naive. But even if you are not, I'd be a bit concerned that he might be. He wants children and you've had emotionally charged conversations about it. At the moment he says he can forego them to be with you, but my concern is that is a pretty big thing for someone to shift their mindset on. Even if he says he's fine with it now, who's to say how he'll feel a few years down the line.

Taking away the international complications (which are not insignificant) I think that alone puts a serious question mark over the long term. If you can "live in the moment" and be at peace with the uncertainty and potential for it to end then fair enough, but it sounds like you really like him, so I'd be worried about getting hurt.

You have done a huge amount of back tracking and re- framing from your original post, including initially saying your kids know and are not happy about it, your ex relationship being abusive to that you work well together for your children.
You sound like someone very independent and somehow able to live an international life of adventure and holidays away from your three children so aside from this romance should you/ shouldn't you it really doesn't sound like being a mum and your kids are a priority to you.

Now you are saying he 'might' want to see you if he comes to the UK which doesn't fit with all the deep connections, giving up the chance to be a a parent, deep love and meeting his family stuff.

Not really sure what you want from this post but it sounds like you need to start being honest with yourself and everyone else because your story seems to be all over the place to fit what ever works for you.

this is a simple relationship that serves my purposes

Then why are you asking us if it is "doomed"? If it's exactly what you want and you'll never want more from it, what does "doomed" mean?

Honestly OP, what you say to a friend who told you they were madly in love with a holiday romance only 9 years older than their child? Answer that honestly and you have your own answer.

You know that you would be worried for her, urge caution, tell her that it isn't really real.

OP, I'm not going to rehash all the points that have already been made about age gap, money, marriage, culture etc, although I do agree with most of them. I just want to flag a couple of things I've noticed in your posts that echo things I thought (although not always consciously) about my own, ultimately very unhappy, relationship 20+ years ago.

Firstly, just because doing the 'conventional' thing (same age, same country etc etc) didn't work out doesn't mean that you should pursue something at the opposite end of the scale. This is a kind of logical fallacy that I recognise from my own experience - 'choosing the guy who's ABC was a disaster so maybe what I actually need is the guy who's XYZ, right???' - nope, not necessarily! It's easy to find yourself attracted to something that seems very different to a previous unsuccessful relationshp but sadly 'different' doesn't necessarily mean 'right'.

This is even more true when we start to tell ourselves stories about the kind of person we are in order to 'fit' our vision of what our new relationship could be. Now, I don't know you and you could of course be genuinely well suited to a relationship that breaks a lot of the 'rules'. But it does raise a bit of a red flag for me that you are on the one hand, asking for relationship advice on MN and on the other, telling us you're unconventional, confident and in control enough to manage this situation. I mean, all power to you you if you really are, but there are an awful lot of contradictions in your posts that suggest you're not really as cool with all of this as are trying to make out. Are you genuinely the kind of person who can manage this wild, crazy, unconventional romantic connection, or is it actually a bit of wishful thinking that will look a bit daft in the cold light of day?

And finally, don't kid yourself about your kids. They're not independent adults yet (no, not even your 19-year-old) and just because they've lived abroad for a bit doesn't mean they're also cool and unconventional and confident enough to seamlessly manage the emotional upheavals that they will have inevitably experienced over the last few years. Doesn't mean you should mollycoddle or cosset them, or put your life on hold, but don't underestimate how not-ok they might really be with mum's exciting new romance either.

FWIW, I don't think this sounds at all like the classic 'much younger man pursues an older woman for a visa and money' situation. The whole dynamic you've described is not typical of that at all.

I do think, though, that it's hard to make a long distance relationship like this work, just because being in different countries makes it very hard indeed to maintain a normal partnership.

Crazy connection? Any phrase with crazy in it is a red flag for me.

I did explain this in a.previous comment. I work abroad. I travel. My mum helps out a lot - they are used to this. My split up was a long time coming and again the children and I- and my ex - have created a good environment for them with two loving homes (he was never a bad father) and they can come and go. Of course it has been hard, but i have been emotionally ready for someone else for a long time. My friendship woth this man - as it began like that and we didn't know each others ages - took time to develop. There was no love bombing. I speak some Moroccan arabic also so we can talk together in both languages) I look a lot younger than my age and I'm in good shape.
We are both professionals and earn ok money.
The children have met him as my friend and know I see him and speak to him. They would t like any man I brought home and of course with him being younger, I know it would be difficult. I just want to clarify that the kids are OK. Everyone sits on their high horses when it comes to a non conventional set up. My family is everything to me but I am also enjoying myself discretley and simply wonder whether there is a future with this person that I like.

The op has back tracked as the red flags pointing to scam are being pointed out. She’s spent hardly any time with this man, has declared she’s in love, foolishly believing him to be, whilst knowing full well he wants to come to the uk and is looking for an older more affluent woman foolish enough to help him. And financially secure in Morocco is seldom financially secure in the uk. I expect he’s not coming here as he can’t afford it.

these stories are all over the media. Time and time again women getting scammed like this and believing it’s true love with her and some young guy who wouldn’t look at her twice if she was not British.

Thank you. This is obviously my thinking. I read stories, hear people's accounts, then look at how things have developed over the last months. The qualities I believe he has, what we both bring to our relationship, how he makes me feel, how safe I have actually felt with him. You can't fake these things, I don't believe. I just know like you said, a long term long distance relationship is not easy. That is what I need to consider. But thank you for seeing what I am trying to convey.

How often do you see him?

And realistically how long is this going to continue?

Putting aside potential scams etc. I think maintaining a long distance relationship would be incredibly difficult.

You say you don’t want marriage and kids but he’s younger and eventually will.

Even having such a big age gap in this country could be an issue, when one wants marriage and kids and the other one is done with all that.

I don’t think a 28yo is going to be happy with having sex a handful of times a year.

I also like the intimacy in a relationship and doing things together.

The biggest issue here I think, is that you are going to get more attached and then he’s going to decide he wants more and you are going to be heartbroken.

Perhaps just keep him as a FWB.

But you have to remind yourself that this is all it is and if a relationship is what you want then I’d be looking for one in this country.
Or if you don’t want a relationship then keep things as they are but know there’s a big chance he’s going to move on.