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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Dating a man who has supervised contact centre visitation... red flag?

183 replies

DilemmaEmma2 · 02/10/2023 13:12

Just that really.
Would a man who has contact centre visitation strike up a red flag to you?
Would you do your utmost to find out as much as possible about it?

OP posts:
TheShellBeach · 03/10/2023 12:41

DilemmaEmma2 · 03/10/2023 12:12

Is it as clear cut as this?
What if there is no immediate harm to the children? is him living with them classed as a risk?

Show quote history

In the case I'm referring to, the man had a conviction for sexual abuse of a child.

Original poster
DilemmaEmma2 · 03/10/2023 14:32

Do there have to be convictions in order for her to leave him?

OP posts:
Original poster
DilemmaEmma2 · 03/10/2023 15:47

Does there have to be convictions in order for SS to do anything? this is what I am led to believe?

OP posts:
TheShellBeach · 03/10/2023 15:49

DilemmaEmma2 · 03/10/2023 15:47

Does there have to be convictions in order for SS to do anything? this is what I am led to believe?

I don't think so.
I think they go on the past history of the abusive man.

Original poster
DilemmaEmma2 · 03/10/2023 15:51

I was thinking they just go on convictions. There is a significant history with Children's Services from two local authorities regarding his abuse but no convictions as such

OP posts:
TheShellBeach · 03/10/2023 15:54

DilemmaEmma2 · 03/10/2023 15:51

I was thinking they just go on convictions. There is a significant history with Children's Services from two local authorities regarding his abuse but no convictions as such

Claire's Law doesn't only come into play in cases where there have been convictions, though.
It is dependent on a history of abuse, stalking and violence.

Nanny0gg · 03/10/2023 15:57

DilemmaEmma2 · 02/10/2023 16:40

I haven't reported them to SS because I don't want it to be twisted into a malicious report which is likely what it'll be

You don't know that and it's worth the risk

Or speak to NSPCC

Mycutedog · 03/10/2023 15:59

It is as if a herd of elephants were marching past your front window all carrying gigantic red flags waving violently in the wind

Nicole1111 · 03/10/2023 16:31

DilemmaEmma2 · 03/10/2023 15:47

Does there have to be convictions in order for SS to do anything? this is what I am led to believe?

No. They work on the balance of probabilities. For instance 10 women independent from each other could have accused someone of domestic abuse but there was no conviction as no evidence, unwillingness to press charges etc, but a judge could conclude that it is highly likely domestic abuse occurred and a child wouldn’t be safe

Original poster
DilemmaEmma2 · 03/10/2023 17:16

Nicole1111 · 03/10/2023 16:31

No. They work on the balance of probabilities. For instance 10 women independent from each other could have accused someone of domestic abuse but there was no conviction as no evidence, unwillingness to press charges etc, but a judge could conclude that it is highly likely domestic abuse occurred and a child wouldn’t be safe

Show quote history

It is highly likely.. it really is. I fear it will happen again as he's abusive to absolutely everyone. Family, friends , partners, road rage, his employer... literally everyone.

OP posts:
Verytall · 03/10/2023 19:18

@DilemmaEmma2 I work in this area. When social services receive a referral like this, typically they will check their own records and ask the police for information (as well as other relevant agenices). The police share details of convictions, but also intelligence - including (but not limited to) how many times they've had contact with the individual either as a potential victim or perpetrator, markers for things like suspected or proven stalking/harassment/violence/weapons, if they've been subject to marac etc. All of it is taken into account because it's all evidence of risk (of course a decision has to be made about how good the evidence is, but as a previous poster said if we have several ex partners who have been alleged victims of DV that the police have been out to, we don't quibble over whether it resulted in convictions) Children's services will look at whether he's known to them including when linked to other children, eg with previous partners.

Childrens services can't share the police information with the partner, but typically they may say that he cannot be around the children and if he wants to be, they need to risk assess it and see if it can be done safely or not. They usually encourage the partner to do a Claire's law disclosure, but if they don't and the concerns are serious enough, they can request that the police go out and share the information.

Children's services don't have authority to tell people to split up. They can say that someone isn't safe to be around the children, and that the relationship can only be separate from the children, until some work is done to make it safer. If it's not possible to make it safe enough (like the example someone referenced about a woman moving in with a guy who was a sex offender) they can say that it's so serious, we will go to court to seek removal of the children.

Domestic abuse and sexual abuse are two areas where there's a huge gap between harm/risk and conviction levels, so it's always about what we realistically know or suspect to be true rather than what has been through the criminal courts.

Original poster
DilemmaEmma2 · 03/10/2023 19:55

Verytall · 03/10/2023 19:18

@DilemmaEmma2 I work in this area. When social services receive a referral like this, typically they will check their own records and ask the police for information (as well as other relevant agenices). The police share details of convictions, but also intelligence - including (but not limited to) how many times they've had contact with the individual either as a potential victim or perpetrator, markers for things like suspected or proven stalking/harassment/violence/weapons, if they've been subject to marac etc. All of it is taken into account because it's all evidence of risk (of course a decision has to be made about how good the evidence is, but as a previous poster said if we have several ex partners who have been alleged victims of DV that the police have been out to, we don't quibble over whether it resulted in convictions) Children's services will look at whether he's known to them including when linked to other children, eg with previous partners.

Childrens services can't share the police information with the partner, but typically they may say that he cannot be around the children and if he wants to be, they need to risk assess it and see if it can be done safely or not. They usually encourage the partner to do a Claire's law disclosure, but if they don't and the concerns are serious enough, they can request that the police go out and share the information.

Children's services don't have authority to tell people to split up. They can say that someone isn't safe to be around the children, and that the relationship can only be separate from the children, until some work is done to make it safer. If it's not possible to make it safe enough (like the example someone referenced about a woman moving in with a guy who was a sex offender) they can say that it's so serious, we will go to court to seek removal of the children.

Domestic abuse and sexual abuse are two areas where there's a huge gap between harm/risk and conviction levels, so it's always about what we realistically know or suspect to be true rather than what has been through the criminal courts.

This is really super helpful. There is police history with a previous ex.
He's had non molestation orders.
We had several maracs.
Police were called 20+ time. Each time he was arrested.
He's got convictions for stalking and weapons too.

OP posts:
Verytall · 03/10/2023 20:02

@DilemmaEmma2 in the marac meetings a lot of information is discussed. Findings or summaries from those about his risk level would certainly be looked at as part of a new referral about the same man, it may have already been on the radar even without you sharing the information with the professional (although that professional adding another piece to the jigsaw as it were, would certainly help) And the police summarise the other info, eg how many reports he's been named in over what time period etc. Given the extensive history it would certainly be looked at in relation to him being in a new relationship with someone with children. Honestly I look at scenarios like this all the time and actual convictions barely register, it's what they've done, how severe, how frequent, how recent, how likely to repeat, impact on children that we think about.

I'm sorry you've had to go through all this but well done on passing the information on.

MissTrip82 · 03/10/2023 21:44

I imagine that she’s fallen for the same lies and pretenses as you did.

OhcantthInkofaname · 03/10/2023 21:56

DilemmaEmma2 · 02/10/2023 13:12

Just that really.
Would a man who has contact centre visitation strike up a red flag to you?
Would you do your utmost to find out as much as possible about it?

That's not just a red flag but a box of red flags!

Yetanothernewname101 · 03/10/2023 23:18

I've been in meetings with mums (I'm an education professional) where they've been told by social services in no uncertain terms that they either drop the boyfriend or their child will be taken into foster care. Boyfriend had a similar background of abuse or was on the sex offenders list.
Hopefully you having reported it to a professional will get the necessary done.

Original poster
DilemmaEmma2 · 04/10/2023 09:19

Yetanothernewname101 · 03/10/2023 23:18

I've been in meetings with mums (I'm an education professional) where they've been told by social services in no uncertain terms that they either drop the boyfriend or their child will be taken into foster care. Boyfriend had a similar background of abuse or was on the sex offenders list.
Hopefully you having reported it to a professional will get the necessary done.

I was told in no uncertain terms by a social worker if I went back to the family home with our daughter and resumed our relationship there would be severe consequences.

OP posts:
Original poster
DilemmaEmma2 · 04/10/2023 14:57

It's all such a sad situation

OP posts:
Yetanothernewname101 · 04/10/2023 20:04

It's incredibly sad. Hopefully social work or the police will advise the new girlfriend about his unsuitability.
I hope you're doing okay and getting the support you need.

Original poster
DilemmaEmma2 · 28/11/2023 16:57

So, to update.. I have been told by a court professional that he is no longer in a relationship with her!

Can't say I'm not surprised

OP posts:
Mydustymonstera · 28/11/2023 17:11

Thank goodness. Let’s really hope it is true, and that it stays that way

Trinity65 · 28/11/2023 17:48

Yes,, , Red Flag

My ex had supervised visiting rights and there was very good reason for that.

Original poster
DilemmaEmma2 · 28/11/2023 18:16

Surely the court are likely to be concerned his relationship is over!

OP posts:
GingerIsBest · 28/11/2023 18:22

DilemmaEmma2 · 28/11/2023 18:16

Surely the court are likely to be concerned his relationship is over!

No, only if she continues to be down as a potential contact supervisor.

NosamLDN · 28/11/2023 18:27

The red flag is only raised if you know the reason behind it all. I was physically abused by an ex partner (female and she is almost half my size ), maybe it's not him. You are best to know the reason behind it