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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What the fuck do I do about H treating my son like this?

259 replies

whatthefuckdoIdoaboutmyH · 01/10/2023 13:40

My H does love his children,.. He also has autism. And, bluntly, the iteration of autism in him is a toxic combination when it comes to being a parent. He has very, very little mindsight, a very rigid and inflexible approach, a strong belief he is right, no apparent ability to learn from his mistakes, largely because he never admits to making a mistake in the first place. He also has extremely poor emotional regulation. It doesn't matter how bad things get in his relationship, with me or now with his children, it is always someone else who is the problem. Nothing, NOTHING, makes his reflect that perhaps his behaviour is contributing to the problem.

My eldest son (older junior school age) has real eating problems and always has. He has failed to grow and is now the size of a child 3 /4 years younger than him. He has been seeing a paediatrician about this and is now on the waiting list for another. Everyone we have seen about his eating throughout his life, paediatrican, paediatric dietician, health visitor, everyone, has said the same, ' 'Don't make mealtimes stressful.' My son seems to just not be interested in food, and very out of touch with his appetite. He is prepared to be hungry rather than eat. I suspect he has a baseline of usually being hungry and so does not really notice he is, as well as a small stomach from chronic undereating. He is also very sensory sensitive, which probably does not help. He has never had a hungry phase related to a growth spurt and he has never had a growth spurt. He has never shown interest in what anyone else is eating. His diet is limited but he does eat a range of foods from all major food groups.

His Dad's strategy is to make food and then become very angry if he does not eat it. I have just had to go downstairs to intervene as my son was screaming at the top of his voice, ' Get off me! Get off me! Get off me!' as his Dad was trying to physical restrain him in his seat, whilst yelling at our son to eat. When I speak to his Dad about this he claims he is not making mealtimes stressful. If my son isn't eating he will become angry and start yelling about all the work he put in, start yelling about how he needs to eat and just go on and on. He will then insist he is not making mealtimes stressful. I have shown him a thread on here from people who said their parents were like this and the terrible effect it had on them, but I doubt he even remembers me showing him that. He never remembers anything that doesn't shore up his own narrative.

Nothing makes a difference to his Dad's approach.

OP posts:
SpringMum30 · 01/10/2023 15:12

My ex used to make the kids eat everything on the plate. On two occasions one of my daughters was sick after. Through court proceedings my children spoke up about it (with Cafcass) as did I but it couldn’t be proven as there could have been other factors that caused the sickness 🙄 I’m sad to say it’s not as black and white as some posters think. With that said I still have majority custody (around 70%) and ex seems to have changed his attitude around meal times as his behaviour was exposed.

whatthefuckdoIdoaboutmyH · 01/10/2023 15:12

Letsgoroundagain101 · 01/10/2023 15:05

I do feel for you because I believe that about my dh too. He really loves his dc and wants the best for them, they love him back. But, there have been times when he has absolutely fucked up very seriously and it has damaged them. He feels bad but still makes mistakes and struggles to make amends and apologise. It’s easier for him to blame everyone else around him than face up to the fact that his neurodiversity has this impact as he feels he can’t change it.

My H is worse than that as he never feels bad! Because he never sees he has done anything wrong in the first place. He seems to live his life free of shame and guilt. Its really shown me why humans evolved to have shame and guilt. It motivates you to repair relationships with those you have harmed. It motivates you not to repeat that behaviour. My H doesn't have that.

He would have shame I think if someone else humiliated him, say at work. But not feel shame for his behaviour towards someone else, because he won't recognise it was a wrong behaviour in the first place.

OP posts:
Hibiscrubbed · 01/10/2023 15:15

You need to video and document his abuse of your son, plus his abuse of you. You need to show that to the paediatrician. They may be able to give a statement to help build your case.

Mirabai · 01/10/2023 15:17

whatthefuckdoIdoaboutmyH · 01/10/2023 15:00

I actually am. Because there are times when I can see he is really trying to understand and he just can't. I can really see his confusion, his lack of comprehension.

And its not just with me. I could give you examples from his behaviour with his own mother, who he loved dearly.

When I read up on Autism in relationships, it just made sense of everything.

I know my H really wants our relationship to work, he really wants to be a good dad. He just has no idea how to be in a relationship with other people. Because he cant' really see them. What he sees is himself and how he feels about those people and how they make him feel. He can't really see how they think and feel.

And that's why he reacts the way he does. He is genuinely worried about his son's eating and size. He just can't see how damaging the approach he is taking is and his own emotional reactions to that worry and fear and desperation overwhelm him.

I'm not making excuses. I have no good feelings left for the man, the opposite really. But I genuinely believe his behaviour stems from a place of utter incomprehension rather than badness.

But there’s crossover here between autism and narcissism - failing to see other povs can be for completely different reasons.

My father is (diagnosed) ASD but is was the most gentle and polite soul imaginable. Not understanding other peole and their motivations doesn’t have to lead to aggressions and abuse.

What do you say to the ASD poster above who says there is nothing of this in their life?

With respect it seems to me you have vested interest in reading this as a disability issue rather than an abusive one.

Venturini · 01/10/2023 15:18

The more you describe him the more he sounds like a sociopath.

Letsgoroundagain101 · 01/10/2023 15:19

I have to say it took years for him to discover the shame. He stood by his own actions for a very very long time. He was always arguing that I was wrong and I was not only responding with the wrong kind of parenting but that my parenting was causing the problem in the first place. I was actually convinced myself sometimes and would try his way but it blatantly made everything much much worse. Even then he couldn’t see it.
im just trying to actually think now what and exactly how things have improved for us. It was a long and twisting journey, still is. I have to go for now but I will come back with some thoughts later on.

whatthefuckdoIdoaboutmyH · 01/10/2023 15:20

Letsgoroundagain101 · 01/10/2023 15:06

Are there any good elements left in your relationship and family? Could you love him again if he changed?

I could never love him again. Or trust him. I know I am invisible to him as a person so I could never love him again. And I can't forgive him for his behaviour since the kids were born.

I could respect him if he sought help and tried to improve his behaviour to us all. I know that would be very hard for him. And I would respect it.

I actually really miss how I relationship used to be. We got on really well and he was my favourite person to spend time with. And he adored me. He really did. We laughed a lot together.

I wish we could get that back and get on again. Sometimes I feel really angry with him for that. To me, it seems so easy the changes that need to be made to achieve that. Even if he just listened to me! Honestly, if he would just try listening and doing what I say for a month, I think he would see that the arguments and tensions just disappeared and we'd all be happier. I defer to him on the practical DIY type things as he know about that and let him just do it. If he would defer to me on the emotional /relational stuff which is what I know, then we could get along. But he won't.

OP posts:
Venturini · 01/10/2023 15:21

👆👆 also, it doesn’t fucking MATTER whether the abuse is ‘intentional’, or otherwise, and completely misses the point which is that it is hugely damaging and your kids are already bearing the scars. What are you going to do about it? He isn’t going to change. You have a responsibility to safeguard them.

Mirabai · 01/10/2023 15:21

whatthefuckdoIdoaboutmyH · 01/10/2023 15:12

My H is worse than that as he never feels bad! Because he never sees he has done anything wrong in the first place. He seems to live his life free of shame and guilt. Its really shown me why humans evolved to have shame and guilt. It motivates you to repair relationships with those you have harmed. It motivates you not to repeat that behaviour. My H doesn't have that.

He would have shame I think if someone else humiliated him, say at work. But not feel shame for his behaviour towards someone else, because he won't recognise it was a wrong behaviour in the first place.

Lack of shame and guilt is connected to lack of conscience.

whatthefuckdoIdoaboutmyH · 01/10/2023 15:21

Letsgoroundagain101 · 01/10/2023 15:11

I tell him again and again, 'I am saying this to help you', but he just says ' No you are not, No you are not.'
maybe no amount of “telling” your dh works because he just can’t do it by himself. he just doesn’t have the capacity to change himself like that. I guess what he’s saying here is that telling me what to do just doesn’t help him. It only makes him feel bad and you too. It needs a completely new strategy.

But what?! What is that strategy?!

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jackstini · 01/10/2023 15:21

What about a nest camera inside?

Then you can play the video back to him showing what he is doing and how he sounds - would that make a difference?

It will also be good evidence for any contact decisions

Fact - he is abusing your son physically and emotionally and you are allowing it. You have to report him. This is hurting your son and could really mess him up for life if not stopped soon

I think you do honestly believe he would get minimum 50% custody - because he's completely brainwashed you!

But he wouldn't
Please please go and see a solicitor who will give you actual facts and some advice. In all likelihood you would stay in the home, he would pay maintenance

Letsgoroundagain101 · 01/10/2023 15:22

I could have written most of that myself. There are so many similarities between our experiences here it’s weird. Sorry but I really have got to go now.

AbbeyGailsParty · 01/10/2023 15:23

It’s obvious your son and his father need to be separated, you can’t allow this behaviour to continue , it’s seriously damaging your child.
You need evidence of his abuse, recordings or filming. It’s the only way to prevent unsupervised access.
I had years of being forced to eat at school and at home ( given cold liver I’d refused to eat for breakfast , lunch and tea 2 days running is a weekend I still remember 60 years later) I developed an eating disorder as a teen ( surprise surprise)
Protect your child before someone else notices your husband’s abuse and SS step in.

whatthefuckdoIdoaboutmyH · 01/10/2023 15:24

AttilaTheMeerkat · 01/10/2023 15:11

Who diagnosed your H as being on the autistic spectrum?. If it is your own self you could well be wrong about him being on any spectrum at all. Some women do mistake abuse for neurodiversity. Has he ever talked about ASD himself?. What is his family background like; that often gives clues.

What do you think staying with him will teach your children, particularly your eldest child here, about relationships?.

Its a proper diagnosis from the NHS. Two assessors over the course of a day doing various exercises and things with him.

OP posts:
whatthefuckdoIdoaboutmyH · 01/10/2023 15:26

Letsgoroundagain101 · 01/10/2023 15:19

I have to say it took years for him to discover the shame. He stood by his own actions for a very very long time. He was always arguing that I was wrong and I was not only responding with the wrong kind of parenting but that my parenting was causing the problem in the first place. I was actually convinced myself sometimes and would try his way but it blatantly made everything much much worse. Even then he couldn’t see it.
im just trying to actually think now what and exactly how things have improved for us. It was a long and twisting journey, still is. I have to go for now but I will come back with some thoughts later on.

Thanks, I would really appreciate that.

OP posts:
pickledandpuzzled · 01/10/2023 15:26

Cameras could help if you suggested them as a way to help DS by allowing the paediatrician to give advice.

Does he have a diagnosis?
What do his parents say?

Can you agree together some new strategies, for example he does every other meal and only cooks safe foods and allows DS to leave the table without finishing.

Then when you do a meal, it’s more relaxed and DS can eat a little more.

I have had similar frustrations in my marriage, but we’ve managed to negotiate them.

Mirabai · 01/10/2023 15:26

I defer to him on the practical DIY type things as he know about that and let him just do it. If he would defer to me on the emotional /relational stuff which is what I know, then we could get along. But he won't.

He is who he is. “Deferring” to you on emotional/relationship stuff really means changing his whole personality. He has no interest in changing and he may not be able to anyway.

tothelefttotheleft · 01/10/2023 15:28

Cherrysoup · 01/10/2023 14:15

He cannot be in the room when your son eats. No court will award him 50/50 when you detail the physical abuse.

Unfortunately I do not believe you can say that he will not got contact. My ex hurt other children. Went to prison. Still got contact.

FrodoBagginsToeHair · 01/10/2023 15:28

What did you do when you came downstairs to find him being physically abusive to your son?

SmileyClare · 01/10/2023 15:29

The couple next door to me are both autistic and parents of 2 young boys.

They now have input from social services and have attended parenting classes.The dc have weekly visits from a social worker who appears to liaise with the parents.

The noise levels have certainly improved and the parents have been using a wider range of parenting techniques (engaging more with the dc , using praise - rather than just shouting NO that’s NAUGHTY DO ASI SAY all the time- absolute rage was the norm- it was honestly awful to listen to!

SS may be able to help ?

CeciNestPasUnPipi · 01/10/2023 15:30

@whatthefuckdoIdoaboutmyH - Do you think it's worth considering that multiple posters saying the same thing - many of whom have experienced abuse themselves, and so know what they're talking about - might be seeing things more clearly than you are?

If you can contemplate this as a possibility, then perhaps you can also consider that you are caught up in a web of misplaced obligation to both your husband and your children. You are being blinded to the fact that your husband is abusive, and your son is being abused.

We children who grew up in abusive families equated abuse with love. Of course your son loves his father; of course he will be heartbroken if he is separated from him. But if he is not, the abuse is going to escalate, and you will be facilitating a child into repeating your husband's behaviours when they get older.

Children do not always know what is best for them. You, on the other hand, have more of a chance of anyone in this family to do the right and best thing. And that is to start proceedings to leave and to fight for custody. You are in a better position to achieve this than you might believe because currently you are not seeing straight. If you leave, though, you will; and you'll wonder why the hell you tolerated what you've been tolerating for so long. I have a feeling your son's eating problems will disappear too, but that's merely speculation.

Beachwalker66 · 01/10/2023 15:30

FusionChefGeoff · 01/10/2023 14:49

Are you sure this is all related to his autism as it just sounds like being a self centred arsehole to me.

Exactly. I am feeling so sorry for this little boy whose father is abusive and whose mother is happy to make excuses for that abuse.

whatthefuckdoIdoaboutmyH · 01/10/2023 15:31

tothelefttotheleft · 01/10/2023 15:28

Unfortunately I do not believe you can say that he will not got contact. My ex hurt other children. Went to prison. Still got contact.

There was a poster on here who was set a-fuckling-light by her partner and he still got contact. How many desperate women have there been on threads here because they have to send their children to spend time with their arsehole Fathers? I have no confidence in the family court system. I just don't.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 01/10/2023 15:32

whatthefuckdoIdoaboutmyH · 01/10/2023 14:03

I can't kick him out. I simply don't have that power, not legally, not anyway. Kicking him out is not within my gift.

He won't go if I tell him to. And I can't make him.

Tell the authorities about the abuse.
Get proper advice about your rights.

You might be surprised.

whatthefuckdoIdoaboutmyH · 01/10/2023 15:32

FrodoBagginsToeHair · 01/10/2023 15:28

What did you do when you came downstairs to find him being physically abusive to your son?

Obviously I intervened to stop it.

OP posts: